No hot air... brrrrr...
Discussion
I'm not sure what is going on here, but these are the symptoms/checks so far.
Ford Cougar V6
No warm air so to speak.
6 deg ambient outside temp.
27deg from the heaters on full blast (so just warm ish)
Engine coolant temp reaching about 38-40degC after a run (expansion tank)
Radiator top input pipe feels pretty hot. My temp probe went up to 45degC after a few seconds of the tip touching it.
Radiator itself feels stone cold (just down from where the pipe feels really hot)
It had a big service maybe a month ago, so I'm not sure if the coolant was done then, but I've got a sneaky suspicion it's an air-lock in the system somewhere.
Any advice of what might be wrong on those symptoms would be much appreciated... just don't want Ford charging for labour if it's their system bleeding during service at fault.
Many thanks
Dave
Ford Cougar V6
No warm air so to speak.
6 deg ambient outside temp.
27deg from the heaters on full blast (so just warm ish)
Engine coolant temp reaching about 38-40degC after a run (expansion tank)
Radiator top input pipe feels pretty hot. My temp probe went up to 45degC after a few seconds of the tip touching it.
Radiator itself feels stone cold (just down from where the pipe feels really hot)
It had a big service maybe a month ago, so I'm not sure if the coolant was done then, but I've got a sneaky suspicion it's an air-lock in the system somewhere.
Any advice of what might be wrong on those symptoms would be much appreciated... just don't want Ford charging for labour if it's their system bleeding during service at fault.
Many thanks
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 9th November 22:03
What's the in car temp gauge looking like?
If the stat is stuck open, it'll always be overcooling, and the temps you have up aren't all that hot.
If you have the time, or happen to be going on a long run anywhere, wait for the incar gauge to get to the middle, then let it have a high speed cruise, and that usually enough to make the temp needle start dropping and points to the stat being open.
Other problems i guess are the airlock you've mentioned, or the heater valve being stuck shut and not allowing any hot coolant into the heater matrix.
If the stat is stuck open, it'll always be overcooling, and the temps you have up aren't all that hot.
If you have the time, or happen to be going on a long run anywhere, wait for the incar gauge to get to the middle, then let it have a high speed cruise, and that usually enough to make the temp needle start dropping and points to the stat being open.
Other problems i guess are the airlock you've mentioned, or the heater valve being stuck shut and not allowing any hot coolant into the heater matrix.
Sounds to me like the thermostat is stuck open.
Start car from cold and feel the top hose as the engine warms. It should stay relatively cold then suddenly get hot when the stat opens. If it warms up slowly then the stat is stuck.
If you had an air lock it is likely the whole lot would have boiled over before now.
Steve
Start car from cold and feel the top hose as the engine warms. It should stay relatively cold then suddenly get hot when the stat opens. If it warms up slowly then the stat is stuck.
If you had an air lock it is likely the whole lot would have boiled over before now.
Steve
Cool, thanks for the tips.
Guess the problem with a stuck open stat is that it gets worse for the car and heaters the colder it gets, to the point it's not going to get hardly warm at all when it's freezing conditions!
Hopefully it's going to be a cheap enough fix at the garage then.
Will report back on the final fix when it gets done!
Thanks
Dave
Guess the problem with a stuck open stat is that it gets worse for the car and heaters the colder it gets, to the point it's not going to get hardly warm at all when it's freezing conditions!
Hopefully it's going to be a cheap enough fix at the garage then.
Will report back on the final fix when it gets done!
Thanks
Dave
Hmmm, car went to Ford.
From wifey it sounds like Ford think it might be a blocked up heat exchanger, since it had good pressure into it but very little out of it.
Apparently checked engine with it isolated and everything seemed to run ok.
Is it common for these to block up? I know they fail as I've had a few do it in the past, but blocking up is new to me.
£350 ish to have it swapped and all sorted apparently. Eeek. Need to get a Cougar workshop manual and have a see hehe.
Dave
From wifey it sounds like Ford think it might be a blocked up heat exchanger, since it had good pressure into it but very little out of it.
Apparently checked engine with it isolated and everything seemed to run ok.
Is it common for these to block up? I know they fail as I've had a few do it in the past, but blocking up is new to me.
£350 ish to have it swapped and all sorted apparently. Eeek. Need to get a Cougar workshop manual and have a see hehe.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Hmmm, car went to Ford.
From wifey it sounds like Ford think it might be a blocked up heat exchanger, since it had good pressure into it but very little out of it.
Apparently checked engine with it isolated and everything seemed to run ok.
Is it common for these to block up? I know they fail as I've had a few do it in the past, but blocking up is new to me.
£350 ish to have it swapped and all sorted apparently. Eeek. Need to get a Cougar workshop manual and have a see hehe.
Dave
This is clearly nonsense as a blocked heater matrix wouldn't cause the radiator to be cold. It's a five quid thermostat problem and you're being taken for a ride.From wifey it sounds like Ford think it might be a blocked up heat exchanger, since it had good pressure into it but very little out of it.
Apparently checked engine with it isolated and everything seemed to run ok.
Is it common for these to block up? I know they fail as I've had a few do it in the past, but blocking up is new to me.
£350 ish to have it swapped and all sorted apparently. Eeek. Need to get a Cougar workshop manual and have a see hehe.
Dave
I'll do some more thorough temp checks around the cars heating system, then reference it with a coolant circuit diagram.
The biggest worry for me was that the heater matrix isn't on the ring main of the cooling supply (afaik, otherwise it'd not get warm until the thermostat opened), so the expansion tank coolant temp should be up at around 70-80degC, not down near 40degC.
I'll plug in the OBD and see what the car thinks the coolant temp is at too...
Does anyone know the best resource for Cougar tinkerings? Will a Mondeo V6 Haynes book for a 2000 vintage car be the best bet?
Thanks
Dave
The biggest worry for me was that the heater matrix isn't on the ring main of the cooling supply (afaik, otherwise it'd not get warm until the thermostat opened), so the expansion tank coolant temp should be up at around 70-80degC, not down near 40degC.
I'll plug in the OBD and see what the car thinks the coolant temp is at too...
Does anyone know the best resource for Cougar tinkerings? Will a Mondeo V6 Haynes book for a 2000 vintage car be the best bet?
Thanks
Dave
It's the thermostat, you're being taken for a mug. A blocked anything makes it overheat not run cold! After a good run the top rad hose should be too hot to hold your hand on for more than a few seconds, if its not then the engine is being overcooled and the only thing that can cause that is the stat stuck open (or missing).
Suggest you consider another dealer, yours seems to have an honesty problem which in my experience is not uncommon, although not all are bent by any means.
Suggest you consider another dealer, yours seems to have an honesty problem which in my experience is not uncommon, although not all are bent by any means.
I should have got back on this.
The £380 quote is including the diagnostic they did, so maybe it's not that expensive for the one thing.
However, I plugged in my OBD diagnostics and the coolant temp was reading about 85degC... same time the expansion tank was at about 50-55degC or so.
The radiator was also mildly warm. Maybe the previous time I'd tested it never got warm enough to open the stat so the rad was cool and the coolant tank was cool.
Anyway, it's still blowing cold.
I'm now wondering if it's the hot/cold air mix flap.
I've ordered a Cougar manual off eBay so hopefully I can work out what is what here, and try see if the matrix is hot or not. I'm guessing there is some way to get your hand in and onto it to see.
Dave
The £380 quote is including the diagnostic they did, so maybe it's not that expensive for the one thing.
However, I plugged in my OBD diagnostics and the coolant temp was reading about 85degC... same time the expansion tank was at about 50-55degC or so.
The radiator was also mildly warm. Maybe the previous time I'd tested it never got warm enough to open the stat so the rad was cool and the coolant tank was cool.
Anyway, it's still blowing cold.
I'm now wondering if it's the hot/cold air mix flap.
I've ordered a Cougar manual off eBay so hopefully I can work out what is what here, and try see if the matrix is hot or not. I'm guessing there is some way to get your hand in and onto it to see.
Dave
85C is about right so it may be a blocked heater matrix. Simple check is if both heater pipes are hot, well one hot and the other quite hot. If so water is flowing through the heater matrix and your idea of a flap being stuck is possible. I have an explorer and it has a vacuum operated heater valve which was stuck closed, not sure if the cougar has anything similar.
Thanks for the reply there.
The fans have been making a fluttering noise sometimes when on full power for maybe a year or so.
I wonder if the the flap has just become faulty and is now stuck shut.
Just so hard to have a good look at this time of year as it's always dark or wet or something. Yuck.
Will report back
Thanks
Dave
The fans have been making a fluttering noise sometimes when on full power for maybe a year or so.
I wonder if the the flap has just become faulty and is now stuck shut.
Just so hard to have a good look at this time of year as it's always dark or wet or something. Yuck.
Will report back
Thanks
Dave
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