200+mph in the 1/2 mile
Discussion
i know it's not a monaro but still very impressive
233mph in the standing half mile
UnderGround Racing produce some crazy cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hZVIhV8GmE
233mph in the standing half mile
UnderGround Racing produce some crazy cars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hZVIhV8GmE
Seriously quick car. Could do with a cage, chute, power off switch, fire suppression system, net or arm straps, neck brace or HANS device, five point harness. Can see bare skin on display (neck). It's not running petrol and will burn quite vigorously. Talk about chancing it. It's hard to see how you'd survive a 200-mph crash in that car.
Edited by ArnieVXR on Sunday 15th February 22:35
ArnieVXR said:
Seriously quick car. Could do with a cage, chute, power off switch, fire suppression system, net or arm straps, neck brace or HANS device, five point harness. Can see bare skin on display (neck). It's not running petrol and will burn quite vigorously. Talk about chancing it. It's hard to see how you'd survive a 200-mph crash in that car.
Whilst I agree on many points about safety...also how far do you go ?Edited by ArnieVXR on Sunday 15th February 22:35
There may well be fire suppression, there is some sort of cylinder in the car and it doesnt look like nitrous, battery cut off, there is a harness, seat and helmet.
He is fully covered ( neck aside ) and gloved...even if not in a proper race suit.
As for fuel...almost any fuel it will be running will burn vigorously.
Chute...that caused a Lambo to get destroyed a few years ago...I'd debate their safety usage on such a car.
It's not like these cars are old American junk that dont brake, dont handle, and were never designed for such speeds and run on ridiculous wobbly dangerous tyres that can cause accidents. IMO a chute could seriously and adversely affect them when pulled rather than assist them
As to how strong their monocoque is...probably very, but yes there is bound to be room for additional strength too, somehow. They do have a small rear section cage though.
http://www.undergroundracing.com/vids.html
Safety features found in every other form of motorsport were developed over many years in response to the need to protect drivers from serious or fatal injury. Not one has been introduced just because some boring killjoy wanted to spoil things.
You can't run a 10-second car in the UK without a decent cage. Run faster than 8.5, like these cars, and you need a funny-car style cage (cage within a cage). Proper fire protection is a must: Ask Nikki Lauda. The absence of an external power kill switch or remote fire suppression switch tells me they don't have one. All dragsters that run 150-160 have to have a chute. Yes, on the odd occasion, they cause problems, but given the number of times they're deployed they aren't a liability. Neck restraints - a must, surely, and they only cost £25 FFS. As for arm restraints, people lose arms, hands, fingers in roll-overs. And a Lambo shell being good for a 233mph roll, something it was never design for - I doubt it. Road cars are designed to absorb a comparatively small amount of kinetic energy by crumpling and falling apart. A 7.50 cage is designed to keep the driver alive.
I hit the wall at Santa Pod at 60-70mph. The car was destroyed with the shell flexing into the roll-cage. The stock seat broke and I hit the centre console hard enough to break a rib. What would 233mph been like?
Simple point is that it's unlikely that most of these cars would be allowed to run anywhere else.
You can't run a 10-second car in the UK without a decent cage. Run faster than 8.5, like these cars, and you need a funny-car style cage (cage within a cage). Proper fire protection is a must: Ask Nikki Lauda. The absence of an external power kill switch or remote fire suppression switch tells me they don't have one. All dragsters that run 150-160 have to have a chute. Yes, on the odd occasion, they cause problems, but given the number of times they're deployed they aren't a liability. Neck restraints - a must, surely, and they only cost £25 FFS. As for arm restraints, people lose arms, hands, fingers in roll-overs. And a Lambo shell being good for a 233mph roll, something it was never design for - I doubt it. Road cars are designed to absorb a comparatively small amount of kinetic energy by crumpling and falling apart. A 7.50 cage is designed to keep the driver alive.
I hit the wall at Santa Pod at 60-70mph. The car was destroyed with the shell flexing into the roll-cage. The stock seat broke and I hit the centre console hard enough to break a rib. What would 233mph been like?
Simple point is that it's unlikely that most of these cars would be allowed to run anywhere else.
Drag racing is a different animal with different challenges.
No way do you want a parachute on a car unless you need it, the mile boys don't.
I'm sure there's a safety spec for runners, didn't Dickie Meadon have a crack at the mile and said the car was mega regulated safety wise?.
The Americans seem relaxed about everything, try flying in their airspace
, but that's far from the reality.
No way do you want a parachute on a car unless you need it, the mile boys don't.
I'm sure there's a safety spec for runners, didn't Dickie Meadon have a crack at the mile and said the car was mega regulated safety wise?.
The Americans seem relaxed about everything, try flying in their airspace
, but that's far from the reality.Edited by Xpuffin on Monday 16th February 12:20
ArnieVXR said:
Safety features found in every other form of motorsport were developed over many years in response to the need to protect drivers from serious or fatal injury. Not one has been introduced just because some boring killjoy wanted to spoil things.
You can't run a 10-second car in the UK without a decent cage. Run faster than 8.5, like these cars, and you need a funny-car style cage (cage within a cage). Proper fire protection is a must: Ask Nikki Lauda. The absence of an external power kill switch or remote fire suppression switch tells me they don't have one. All dragsters that run 150-160 have to have a chute. Yes, on the odd occasion, they cause problems, but given the number of times they're deployed they aren't a liability. Neck restraints - a must, surely, and they only cost £25 FFS. As for arm restraints, people lose arms, hands, fingers in roll-overs. And a Lambo shell being good for a 233mph roll, something it was never design for - I doubt it. Road cars are designed to absorb a comparatively small amount of kinetic energy by crumpling and falling apart. A 7.50 cage is designed to keep the driver alive.
I hit the wall at Santa Pod at 60-70mph. The car was destroyed with the shell flexing into the roll-cage. The stock seat broke and I hit the centre console hard enough to break a rib. What would 233mph been like?
Simple point is that it's unlikely that most of these cars would be allowed to run anywhere else.
I've run 9's and needed no cage, I've run plenty of 10's and needed no cage. I know plenty of others who have also. Running 10's these days is no mammoth task, and fully loaded and fully trimmed road cars can fairly easily achieve this at places like Santa Pod.You can't run a 10-second car in the UK without a decent cage. Run faster than 8.5, like these cars, and you need a funny-car style cage (cage within a cage). Proper fire protection is a must: Ask Nikki Lauda. The absence of an external power kill switch or remote fire suppression switch tells me they don't have one. All dragsters that run 150-160 have to have a chute. Yes, on the odd occasion, they cause problems, but given the number of times they're deployed they aren't a liability. Neck restraints - a must, surely, and they only cost £25 FFS. As for arm restraints, people lose arms, hands, fingers in roll-overs. And a Lambo shell being good for a 233mph roll, something it was never design for - I doubt it. Road cars are designed to absorb a comparatively small amount of kinetic energy by crumpling and falling apart. A 7.50 cage is designed to keep the driver alive.
I hit the wall at Santa Pod at 60-70mph. The car was destroyed with the shell flexing into the roll-cage. The stock seat broke and I hit the centre console hard enough to break a rib. What would 233mph been like?
Simple point is that it's unlikely that most of these cars would be allowed to run anywhere else.
Just take a look at GTR's, they can run 9's with ease and drive to/from on normal road tyres etc
So yes some safety features have been determined over years and years...some are also very outdated, especially those with drag racing, largely as they're derived from US based rules, again based around 2-3 ton tanks with no brakes, no suspension, wobbly tyres and just generally cars that were dangerous from the word go.
I have never been asked for, or required to have fire protection other than at the sprints and hillclimbs. Santa Pod etc only ask for fully clothed, likewise Shakespeare. That isnt the same thing. ( I havent been to either since 2008 though...but I doubt it has changed )
The visible fire extinguisher inside the Lambo...tells me it has that installed.
As for a kill switch for power...the ignition key would cover some of that aspect, although obviously that isnt a full kill ( again something I dont have and have never been asked for )
Rules for kill switches are also very different for drag, than every other type of motorsport. Drag want a push kill on the rear of the car.
No other type of motorsport ask the same...generally they want a pull or push mounted in a visible location, typically at the base of the windscreen....where this is even requested.
And the dragster rule of 150+ for a chute....may well be fine for dragsters with no brakes, s
tty tyres etc. And again in the UK at least it is only enforced for actual racing. Not RWYB etcA Lamborghini doesnt even come anywhere near that sort of category though
IMO fitting a chute to a car with proper chassis, brakes, suspension and tyres is completely mental
A reminder of the damage it caused
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1NU6xjTSY
UGR built that too....presumably this is why their cars no longer have chutes fitted ? No idea if the orange car had a cage or not, given some of their more recent cars do not...I'm going to guess it did not either.
You hit a wall at 60-70mph...largely helped by those big wobbly tyres that make the car very unstable and dangerous. Perhaps tyres like that should be banned ? As lets face it, they absolutely are a cause of accidents.
Once cars with big tyres like that lose control, it is generally very difficult to regain control. It would be very different if you had more road based tyres fitted, good chance there would have been no crash at all.
And at most 1/2mile+ distance events...there are rarely any walls to hit so again slightly different, or other cars to drive into ( although some do side/side racing...I dont particularly agree with that especially if the cars are fast )
As for these 8.5 and 7.5 cages etc....the Lambo again isnt drag racing, it isnt aiming for that field. So why would it ever want a cage specced for that very specific motorsport ?
A WRC spec cage wouldnt comply with either of those 7.5 or 8.5 spec...but I know which I'd rather have in a car. So you're trying to compare very different things.
A lot of the stuff you mention is required in drag racing...RYWB dont insist on it. But only actual drag racing.
Some other types of motorsport have different rules and things they insist upon, and things they recommend.
But helmet, fireproof overalls and basic stuff like that should be essential. HANS probably will be pushed more over the next year or two...I havent got one myself, but may do at some point.
Watching crashes with/without HANS, the benefits are clear
Cages are a grey area IMO, especially when some cars have superb chassis/crash structure from the outset given supercars are designed to do near on 200mph already, and when the road cars might already be quite compact inside, so a cage could actually intrude dangerously into the drivers space.
Likewise the considerations of fitting a steel cage...to an aluminium or carbon chassis...that just isnt the same thing as welding a steel cage into a steel chassis. Which is clearly easy to integrate
With an alloy or carbon based chassis, you'd have to try and either bolt or bond it in, which just isnt offering the same protection at all...and could in fact pose more risks.
ArnieVXR said:
Guess we'll have to agree to differ just a little Stevie
And for the record it was some dropped oil that made me lose it, followed by a remarkably well prepped track that made it hard to change direction afterwards. Nothing to do with dropping my phone while texting the wife.
Yes but I'm sure you'd also agree, with proper rear tyres there's a good chance you'd have regained control and not crashed.And for the record it was some dropped oil that made me lose it, followed by a remarkably well prepped track that made it hard to change direction afterwards. Nothing to do with dropping my phone while texting the wife.
Big wobbly tyres are not very good for stability/control on any car. Yes they are good for straight line traction, and when the car stays straight all is well...but when they deviate from that at all, often a crash follows.
Again I'm not arguing that safety aspects shouldnt be considered...but outdated safety features aimed directly at drag racing only, rules largely formed around ancient cars...have little place with modern high performance cars that arent drag racing.
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