Rockers and Injectors

[VinceM]

Looking into my engine upgrades, I may need some better injectors in my car and also some rockers.

So with the injectors, I know the Ford 30lb ones work ok, but am unsure of size and fitment on my car - can anyone help me here? Getting very confused with all the info out there. Will these be ok for a 2004 LS1?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171740304661?_trksid=p20...

Finally would a set of 1.7 ratio rockers be of any benefit?

Thanks.

[jameshsv]

As far as i am aware standerd rockers are 1.7 ratio m8

[jameshsv]

Rob leymon has some 60lb injectors ls1 for sale

[KMud]

30lbs doesn't sound like much, sure it's enough?

There isn't much choice if you want good data, but those are one of them (guessing it's not chance you're looking at those). Not sure if they're nominally LS1 or LS2 length...but might need some fiddling either way (as I found out fitting LS3 injectors extended to supposed LS1 length). What fuel rails and intake are you using?

edit: I'm constantly confusing the connection types - EV1 = LS1? EV6 = LS2/LS3?

Edited by KMud on Sunday 5th April 21:51

[KMud]

jameshsv said:

Rob leymon has some 60lb injectors ls1 for sale

Me too, but probably overkill if considering 30lbs, and I haven't had them flow-checked yet!

[stevieturbo]

VinceM said:

Looking into my engine upgrades, I may need some better injectors in my car and also some rockers.

So with the injectors, I know the Ford 30lb ones work ok, but am unsure of size and fitment on my car - can anyone help me here? Getting very confused with all the info out there. Will these be ok for a 2004 LS1?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171740304661?_trksid=p20...

Finally would a set of 1.7 ratio rockers be of any benefit?

Thanks.

What level are you currently at, and where are you trying to go ? You say you may need better injectors ? why ? what upgrades have you made ?

And as others say, factory rockers are 1.7, so if yours are working fine then there isnt going to be any benefit.
Popular and value upgrade just seems to be a trunion bearing upgrade for your existing rockers.

But that's more a reliability thing, it will not gain you any power, nor will any other 1.7 rocker.

[jameshsv]

Ls1 and ls2 injectors are differant lengths

[Z0m81e]

I think monkfish probably sell SLP high ratio rockers for LS1 that are 1.85.

Paul

[MyM8V8]

stevieturbo said:

What level are you currently at, and where are you trying to go ? You say you may need better injectors ? why ? what upgrades have you made ?

And as others say, factory rockers are 1.7, so if yours are working fine then there isnt going to be any benefit.
Popular and value upgrade just seems to be a trunion bearing upgrade for your existing rockers.

But that's more a reliability thing, it will not gain you any power, nor will any other 1.7 rocker.

^^^

What cam and heads did you end up with?

I'm not sure you will be looking at injectors just yet? Leatherman is your best source on these as he knows exactly what the Ozzies are doing to good effect.

When asking for technical info it's a good idea to post up the rest of combo or there will be people recommending stuff like 60lb injectors which may well not be any good for your set up

PS if you didn't know what stock ratio rockers were, it might be a good idea to put up the budget you are prepared to spend and what your aspirations are. There are plenty of folk on here who have made all the mistakes and wasted the money for you already, if you get what I mean? They can then help you to formulate a complete plan instead of going about it piecemeal.

I am one who has made most of them, and all I can say is set your budget, set your power goal, make up the inventory and most importantly - stick to the plan.

(BTW, I wouldn't be buying used injectors from the states either.)

Edited by MyM8V8 on Monday 6th April 10:01

[VinceM]

OK thanks very much for the responses so far, much appreciated. A few too many Exports last night means a reply tonight.

Firstly, budget. This is fairly limited, and I know that in Monaro terms that's still steep, but I don't have thousands to throw at it.

Goals - I'm not chasing numbers at TR or SRR (although I hope to go to both this year), I know this can be the road to ruin, so ideally if I can get 400rwhp then great, but I know that's optimistic. I'll be happy with 370ish. Any more is a bonus. But most importantly is the car is a daily, so what I want is the current set up, but with "more".

Speaking of current set up, the car made 316rwhp at SRR in October 2014 with Wortec cat back and drop in K&N filter. Possible remap also.

Set up as of today is as above but with 1 7/8 LT headers and 100 cell cats.

I've already purchased a pair of the MF CNC LS2 heads - specs are on their Faceache page.
Cam is mild 222/226 with 0.6 lift.
Will use a OTR CAI with standard intake manifiold. The FAST would be great but obviously ramps the cost up quite considerably.

Yes I have taking guidance on this hence my specific questions. To be honest I hadn't considered injectors until jameshsv mentioned it to me - what I don't want is a bill for injectors that is more than the rest of it - I've seen some eye watering prices lol.

For future plans, well this is it. With an extension project imminently there won't be much scope for mods until much later, plus I'm happy with a relatively conservative set up with a bit more power and the cam sound.

If the collective expertise here thinks they are not necessary then great, if not some idea of what to get would be ideal. Thanks.

[KMud]

Your setup is pretty close to mine (and that is my cam spec!), and I was pushing the injectors further than I was comfortable with - can you log injector duty cycle? FWIW I've ended up with LS3 injectors which have good data and aren't horrendously expensive (and OE parts are always good ), although you would need extensions (and possibly fuel rails).

edit: ah, found those heads.

Edited by KMud on Monday 6th April 21:39

[VinceM]

KMud said:

Your setup is pretty close to mine (and that is my cam spec!), and I was pushing the injectors further than I was comfortable with - can you log injector duty cycle? FWIW I've ended up with LS3 injectors which have good data and aren't horrendously expensive (and OE parts are always good ), although you would need extensions (and possibly fuel rails).

edit: ah, found those heads.

Edited by KMud on Monday 6th April 21:39

Good - I've no idea how to log the duty cycle!

Any links to the parts I need for the injectors at all? Or an approx costat least? Yes I agree the OE route is favourite for me too.

[KMud]

VinceM said:

Good - I've no idea how to log the duty cycle!

Any links to the parts I need for the injectors at all? Or an approx costat least? Yes I agree the OE route is favourite for me too.

Unfortunately there's no truly tidy solution (at least that I could find) - these are the extensions I used which are nice in that they go on the top of the injectors and have clips, but bump up your injector spend. Ignore that page, they don't really have inbuilt filters. Although the o-ring spacing was correct I found the injectors could move up and down with the fuel rail bolted down, so I had to fabricate shorter brackets for my FAST fuel rails, which was a pain. With standard fuel rails I'm not sure if you would be forced to go aftermarket (and potentially modify). My injectors came straight out of a crate engine (unused) but one was stuck. Thankfully bimbleuk kindly flow-tested them for me and unstuck the sticky one.

Hard decision ahead!

[MyM8V8]

VinceM said:

OK thanks very much for the responses so far, much appreciated. A few too many Exports last night means a reply tonight.

Firstly, budget. This is fairly limited, and I know that in Monaro terms that's still steep, but I don't have thousands to throw at it.

Goals - I'm not chasing numbers at TR or SRR (although I hope to go to both this year), I know this can be the road to ruin, so ideally if I can get 400rwhp then great, but I know that's optimistic. I'll be happy with 370ish. Any more is a bonus. But most importantly is the car is a daily, so what I want is the current set up, but with "more".

Speaking of current set up, the car made 316rwhp at SRR in October 2014 with Wortec cat back and drop in K&N filter. Possible remap also.

Set up as of today is as above but with 1 7/8 LT headers and 100 cell cats.

I've already purchased a pair of the MF CNC LS2 heads - specs are on their Faceache page.
Cam is mild 222/226 with 0.6 lift.
Will use a OTR CAI with standard intake manifiold. The FAST would be great but obviously ramps the cost up quite considerably.

Yes I have taking guidance on this hence my specific questions. To be honest I hadn't considered injectors until jameshsv mentioned it to me - what I don't want is a bill for injectors that is more than the rest of it - I've seen some eye watering prices lol.

For future plans, well this is it. With an extension project imminently there won't be much scope for mods until much later, plus I'm happy with a relatively conservative set up with a bit more power and the cam sound.

If the collective expertise here thinks they are not necessary then great, if not some idea of what to get would be ideal. Thanks.

If you have an 04 CV8 then you already have an LS6 intake which is pretty good and to spend on a FAST would be a waste of valuable budget. The only limitation of your intake is Throttle body choice if you have considered that?

I'm not sure of the difference between LS1 and LS2 injectors (flow wise) but with a similar setup to yours, head and cam wise I made 390 at the wheels with standard (ute) fuel pump and stock LS2 injectors. I did use a fast (LS2 manifolds were crap unless ported) and I ported the TB myself. I used a Dus OTR and mafless tune.

Ozzy rules state that injectors should be worked hard and larger poorly utilised injectors don't give as good a spray pattern, so why not stick with yours for now and check the results and log?

Your plan is doable so stick with its and don't be swayed. I've listened to a lot of nonsense in the past and it's that which costs you. Good Luck!

Edited by MyM8V8 on Monday 6th April 23:15

[VinceM]

Thanks again. Will stick with the injectors I have for now and see what happens.

Mine is an 04 VXR so intake will be as you say. Not considered the TB, any recommendations at all?

Also currently looking at a VCM intake with a mafless tune.

Also, would a set of Aeroforce Interceptor gauges be able to log this?

[TheLeatherman]

MyM8V8 said:

Ozzy rules state that injectors should be worked hard and larger poorly utilised injectors don't give as good a spray pattern, so why not stick with yours for now and check the results and log?

Absolutely 100% correct!!!!!

[bimbleuk]

With only bolt on mods such as LT headers, no cats, OTRCAI & LS6 manifold my LS1 0280 155 931 injectors were already at ~90% duty so not much head room. That was an '04 LS1 engine.

[KMud]

TheLeatherman said:

Absolutely 100% correct!!!!!

I'm sure you're right, but question then being, can you recommend a few injectors for different power levels? The difficulty is:

• injector length (may be solved by after-market rails and adapters at some expense)
• injector connector (may be solved by hacking at the loom, or ugly adapter blocks (cheap at least!))
• availability of good injector data (what works down the 1/4 mile might niggle if it's slightly off day to day, and hard to fine-tune)
• some big jumps in injector outputs (don't go drilling them out unless you're getting them flow-tested to verify)

If you are actively logging and reviewing your runs then at least you can cut it more finely. When running them to the bleeding edge it wouldn't take much of a reduction in fuel pressure to cause problems though I imagine.

[KMud]

bimbleuk said:

With only bolt on mods such as LT headers, no cats, OTRCAI & LS6 manifold my LS1 0280 155 931 injectors were already at ~90% duty so not much head room. That was an '04 LS1 engine.

Ditto! Some may see that as good, but I tacked on some more upgrades after and I'm a worrier.

[bimbleuk]

Hard to find over here but I was using 0280 155 811 white injectors supposedly the same as the Corvette ASA injectors. LS1 fitment so same length and EV1 harness connectors. The data from the Corvette ASA 2000 tune file appeared to be correct for them when logging.

Same as Kmud though I've since bought a set of LS3 injectors but had to adapt them to my Jenvey fuel rails by using 1" LS3 to LS1 height adapters. Added ~$80 to the $200 for the LS3 injectors off Ebay.com

http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/index.php?_...

I did initially buy some adapters for $35 but they only clipped to the fuel rail and not to the injectors so relied on the fuel rail clamping to stop any leaks. Hence why I spent the extra for the above adapters which clip to both the rail and the injector for extra safety.

EV6 (LS2,LS3,LS7 etc.) to EV1 (LS1,LS6) harness adapters a readily available on Ebay.co.uk and only cost £10-15.