cataytic converters
Discussion
just a couple of questions about cats (not pussy type) has anyone had an emmision test done to euro 3 standard on a vx 2001 commodore on standard cat system. Holden states the car complies with ADR 37/01 but the uk standard needs to be ADR 97/01. My delemma is do I try for an emmission test with standard cats and risk a possible failure ( and loss of money) a test is about £480 or upgrade cats that will comply with uk standards and then test. Has anyone got any cats replaced off an 04 or 05 model monaro that I may be able to adapt?? Would monaro ones fit??? I'm open to ideas and suggestions Thanks in advance
Edited by redcom01 on Thursday 9th November 18:35
Edited by redcom01 on Thursday 9th November 18:35
VXR_Daz said:
Ok, I'll ask....
What is EN85 fuel?
What is EN85 fuel?
EN85 is this funny bio fuel that is basically unleaded with 15% Ethanol bunged in. Theres a few places selling it now, you can search for outlets on the web. Must be something to do with the chemistry of the combustion, but I'm not a chemist so I can only guess as to why it brings emissions down.
ringram said:
What was your lambda reading?
Above or below 1? If it was on or slightly below there is room to lean on it a little which might help CO.
Above or below 1? If it was on or slightly below there is room to lean on it a little which might help CO.
Thanks for your input Ringram, I can't remember the exact readings, but I will repeat the measurements at natural idle and 2500rpm this afternoon, and let you know asap. I may have saved the last readings on the machine (Crypton) but I will repeat them anyway to see if its changed over the last few thousand miles. Be interesting to compare the gas analyser reading with the value calculated in EFI Live. If I get time, I'll check that as well. Cheers!
Ringram, as promised my 4-gas and Lambda readings this afternoon at full operating temp and on BP ultimate with no EN85
At Idle, CO 0.32% HC 41ppm CO2 13.8% O2 0.65 Lambda 1.020
At 2500 CO 0.29% HC 6ppm CO2 13.9& O2 0.41 Lambda 1.009
I will repeat as soon as I can top up with some EN85 and let you know
What do you think? Maybe she's a whisker lean, though whether its enough to be a problem, I doubt. Cheers
At Idle, CO 0.32% HC 41ppm CO2 13.8% O2 0.65 Lambda 1.020
At 2500 CO 0.29% HC 6ppm CO2 13.9& O2 0.41 Lambda 1.009
I will repeat as soon as I can top up with some EN85 and let you know
What do you think? Maybe she's a whisker lean, though whether its enough to be a problem, I doubt. Cheers
v8d mine passed the MOT emmissions no problem but it's in the lab where you have to get it tested for VOSA and surely they would pick up additives like that.
Ringram can you adjust start up levels (like a lean burn system ) as one test they do is from cold start up and obviously the cats don't operate properly till up to temp. ( Previously they allowed a 40 sec running time first ) This is one difference from the euro 2 to euro 3 test. and will make a big difference in readings. The new VE's apparently have four O2 sensors 2 in front and two behind the cats.
Do all the monaros here in the UK only have 2 sensors. I'm trying to find out if they are a different sensor in say the 2001 models to the latest as the sensors seem to be the biggest part that will change emmissions through tweaks on the cars management system.
Sorry this is getting a bit long but I'm just picking up information from talking to people and trying to find the best way to help pass the test (and the cheapest )
Ringram can you adjust start up levels (like a lean burn system ) as one test they do is from cold start up and obviously the cats don't operate properly till up to temp. ( Previously they allowed a 40 sec running time first ) This is one difference from the euro 2 to euro 3 test. and will make a big difference in readings. The new VE's apparently have four O2 sensors 2 in front and two behind the cats.
Do all the monaros here in the UK only have 2 sensors. I'm trying to find out if they are a different sensor in say the 2001 models to the latest as the sensors seem to be the biggest part that will change emmissions through tweaks on the cars management system.
Sorry this is getting a bit long but I'm just picking up information from talking to people and trying to find the best way to help pass the test (and the cheapest )
redcom01 said:
v8d mine passed the MOT emmissions no problem but it's in the lab where you have to get it tested for VOSA and surely they would pick up additives like that.
Ringram can you adjust start up levels (like a lean burn system ) as one test they do is from cold start up and obviously the cats don't operate properly till up to temp. ( Previously they allowed a 40 sec running time first ) This is one difference from the euro 2 to euro 3 test. and will make a big difference in readings. The new VE's apparently have four O2 sensors 2 in front and two behind the cats.
Do all the monaros here in the UK only have 2 sensors. I'm trying to find out if they are a different sensor in say the 2001 models to the latest as the sensors seem to be the biggest part that will change emmissions through tweaks on the cars management system.
Sorry this is getting a bit long but I'm just picking up information from talking to people and trying to find the best way to help pass the test (and the cheapest )
Ringram can you adjust start up levels (like a lean burn system ) as one test they do is from cold start up and obviously the cats don't operate properly till up to temp. ( Previously they allowed a 40 sec running time first ) This is one difference from the euro 2 to euro 3 test. and will make a big difference in readings. The new VE's apparently have four O2 sensors 2 in front and two behind the cats.
Do all the monaros here in the UK only have 2 sensors. I'm trying to find out if they are a different sensor in say the 2001 models to the latest as the sensors seem to be the biggest part that will change emmissions through tweaks on the cars management system.
Sorry this is getting a bit long but I'm just picking up information from talking to people and trying to find the best way to help pass the test (and the cheapest )
I guess thats a more comprehensive test for VOSA. All I need to do is pass the MOT. I spoke to the tester, and he said so long as the tailpipe gases pass hes happy. Wont even look to see if cats are there so long as it in limits. Ive posted the current values above, and will post some more figures when I have found some E85 and checked again. Seems you only need a couple of gallons of it in with half a tank of regular stuuf. We'll see.
HSV FAN said:
I had mine tested at the Emissions lab and truth me it picks it up if you breath! Also went and had alook round. Mine had no cats so got high flow cats fitted at Janspeed, (heard later they are very good and know there stuff).
Do you happen to have the model cat that they fitted, also what spec did they test too euro 2 or euro 3. Did you have the engine management checked and adjusted after fitting the cats? One more what centre did you use and do you mind telling me the cost so I can compare with ones I've looked at.
Cheers
My VX passed the emmissions test fine. Had headers & a bigger bore system. The cats. themselves were maybe the original HSV cats, but I think that they were freer flowing sports cats. Either way you should have no problems.
Years ago I had an Abbott Racing Saab, with a catless system. I was doubtful about it passing it's first MOT, so I took it to a friendly MOT station who checked the emmissions for me. It only just failed, so I bolted the cat back on prior to the actual MOT test.
Years ago I had an Abbott Racing Saab, with a catless system. I was doubtful about it passing it's first MOT, so I took it to a friendly MOT station who checked the emmissions for me. It only just failed, so I bolted the cat back on prior to the actual MOT test.
Ok, you are right when first started it will run in open loop. You can definately lean that out either by messing with the VE table, or you can force closed loop faster by dropping the temp at which it enters closed loop. However the reason why closed loop doesnt happen till engine temps are at 50*C from memory is that the O2 sensors may not be hot enough to measure nicely. But there is likely to be room to move given that they are heated electrically anyway. You can also tweak the O2 switchpoints to shift stoich one way or the other. I think the Lambda limit is 1.030 so you are close already, but you might be able to shave a little off the switch points to get it to 1.025 and pass.
A nice MOT man is good here as you can fiddle about getting the tune nice.
Im going to need to do this as I run without cats and have a mild cam.. Failing any tweaking it will be cat time for me.
It would be easy if Lambda wasnt tested as you could just lean it right up. I think they will have to change things as many new cars are going with lean burn and direct injection so will be designed to run lean.
A nice MOT man is good here as you can fiddle about getting the tune nice.
Im going to need to do this as I run without cats and have a mild cam.. Failing any tweaking it will be cat time for me.
It would be easy if Lambda wasnt tested as you could just lean it right up. I think they will have to change things as many new cars are going with lean burn and direct injection so will be designed to run lean.
OK found some bits and pieces. I used Emission Lab UK down in Southampton as they were right on the docks when I imported mine. Price is the same £480 per test. The cats I think were custom made?? Dont know what model they are but ring up Monkfish and ask Roger. He has just had it up on the hoist and also has the same cats is his ute. Also done by Janspeed.
Dont think engine management was adjusted, didnt pay for it, useless the really great guys at the lab did it to get it through? They just loved the ute and would do anything to get it on the road.
I have an Lambda max of 1.030 (whatever that means?) mine passed with 1.01. Dont know to what test it was done to euro 2 or 3?
Can send you the test sheet if that helps, I just said do what you have to get it on road, paid to much I bet.
Hope this helps
Dont think engine management was adjusted, didnt pay for it, useless the really great guys at the lab did it to get it through? They just loved the ute and would do anything to get it on the road.
I have an Lambda max of 1.030 (whatever that means?) mine passed with 1.01. Dont know to what test it was done to euro 2 or 3?
Can send you the test sheet if that helps, I just said do what you have to get it on road, paid to much I bet.
Hope this helps
HSV FAN said:
OK found some bits and pieces. I used Emission Lab UK down in Southampton as they were right on the docks when I imported mine. Price is the same £480 per test. The cats I think were custom made?? Dont know what model they are but ring up Monkfish and ask Roger. He has just had it up on the hoist and also has the same cats is his ute. Also done by Janspeed.
Dont think engine management was adjusted, didnt pay for it, useless the really great guys at the lab did it to get it through? They just loved the ute and would do anything to get it on the road.
I have an Lambda max of 1.030 (whatever that means?) mine passed with 1.01. Dont know to what test it was done to euro 2 or 3?
Can send you the test sheet if that helps, I just said do what you have to get it on road, paid to much I bet.
Hope this helps
Dont think engine management was adjusted, didnt pay for it, useless the really great guys at the lab did it to get it through? They just loved the ute and would do anything to get it on the road.
I have an Lambda max of 1.030 (whatever that means?) mine passed with 1.01. Dont know to what test it was done to euro 2 or 3?
Can send you the test sheet if that helps, I just said do what you have to get it on road, paid to much I bet.
Hope this helps
Could you email me the test sheets so I could see the results then I could maybe tell what standard it was too. was your ute 2000 or 2001 as again if mine was 2000 it would be euro 2 but seen as its 2001 it has to be euro 3. thanks again and if you could send it that would be great.
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