DYNO'ING TWIN TURBO CHARGED 5.7 AND 6.0 MONAROS
Discussion
Thought I would start a new thread as so much has changed, including the turbo supplier since the project started, see previous thread on page three “Monaro 6.0 twin turbo” The main reason the project has taken so long is due to the turbo kit supplier APS based in OZ now admitting in an email to me the kit as WRC and they advertise on the web will not be available until April 07! WRC then had to change turbo suppliers to AVO. They also had to manufacture twin three inch bore dump pipes and front exhaust systems for both cars as these were also not available off the shelf. To further complicate matters the modified ecu files that come with the kits would not work in either car’s, as the 05 UK monaros have fly by wire throttles unlike all previous cars. Chris WRC’S ecu tuning wizard set about creating a new bespoke ecu map. He managed over a full weeks rolling road testing and ecu tweaking to get 515 bhp at 5 psi of boost at 60% throttle, “print out of this test supplied” but still the same problem, the ecu kept on cutting the throttle and power and going into safe mode. After speaking to many other engine tuners in different countries one tuner who had experienced a similar problem told Chris the latest 05 “learning ecu” will not operate properly without the MAF sensor. These sensors are being reinstalled into both cars as I write this thread. Chris tells me we should be collecting both cars on or before the weekend. I will put the dyno graphs on the forum as soon as I get them. Chris said he is limiting the 5.7 to 600 at the flywheel and the 6.0 to 650 so not to over-stress the con rods.
Regards Sean.
Regards Sean.
Edited by L8 VXR on Wednesday 13th December 11:19
Click for dyno graph!
URL=http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?im
URL=http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?im
Edited by L8 VXR on Wednesday 13th December 11:20
Edited by L8 VXR on Wednesday 13th December 11:21
Probably the case - just been in to turbocharging for around 10 years (not installing, generally just driving) and my wee Calibra Turbo's rods would be fine up to 400 horseys (100% increase) if you keep the revs down (which is generally the case in turbo'ing anyway).
But I'm noooo expert - just got told that a lot and tended to listen while I was building my mini-beast.
But I'm noooo expert - just got told that a lot and tended to listen while I was building my mini-beast.
Im not saying rods cant bend.....but Ive been following the LS1 scene for a while...
Show me a rod thats bent due to too much boost, and I'll be impressed !!!!!
Show me a rod thats bent before a standard piston has let go, and I'll be even more impressed !!!!!!
I thought both HPT and EFILive had the 05 cars cracked with regards to software ??
Show me a rod thats bent due to too much boost, and I'll be impressed !!!!!
Show me a rod thats bent before a standard piston has let go, and I'll be even more impressed !!!!!!
I thought both HPT and EFILive had the 05 cars cracked with regards to software ??
I'm no expert on broken pistons or bent con rods, but thats what Chris at WRC told me. The lat time i saw bent conrods was after a car was riven through a deep surface water. I will ask him if i got it wrong when i see him next time, hopefully friday or sat. I hope i have got it wrong as i might be able to persuade him to turn up the boost a little higher?
L8 VXR said:
I'm no expert on broken pistons or bent con rods, but thats what Chris at WRC told me. The lat time i saw bent conrods was after a car was riven through a deep surface water.
That was caused by hydrolocking ie when the rods on the upstroke and can't compress a liquid in the combustion chamber. On the downstroke the crank will always turn. Rods fail with increased revs due to square laws and huge increases in loads on the exhaust stroke, bolts fail usually before a rod.
Boosted.
Will get all the dyno figures RWHP and est flywheel when i eventually pick the cars up. This dyno graph is just a print from the screen they were using when setting up the engine, i just asked them for a print. I agree at the end of the day it's what's at the rear wheels that counts.
By the way WRC have re-installed the maf sensors but still cannot re-program the ecu's above 515 bhp, and have now called the software people "EFI Live" to try to re-program the two twin turbo cars this sat at 10 am, so it is highly unlikely i will be collecting my car till next week, and then only if all goes ok. Will keep you posted.
regards Sean.
By the way WRC have re-installed the maf sensors but still cannot re-program the ecu's above 515 bhp, and have now called the software people "EFI Live" to try to re-program the two twin turbo cars this sat at 10 am, so it is highly unlikely i will be collecting my car till next week, and then only if all goes ok. Will keep you posted.
regards Sean.
Just a small correction here. Its not that we cannot map the cars, its potentially a problem with the ETC [Electronic throttle control] when it comes on positive boost. This is a "fly by wire" LS1 and there are not too many anywhere on the planet running turbocharging, whereby it reaches over 5 psi at 50% throttle already.
Cheers
Allan
WRC Tech
Cheers
Allan
WRC Tech
weltmeister said:
Just a small correction here. Its not that we cannot map the cars, its potentially a problem with the ETC [Electronic throttle control] when it comes on positive boost. This is a "fly by wire" LS1 and there are not too many anywhere on the planet running turbocharging, whereby it reaches over 5 psi at 50% throttle already.
Cheers
Allan
WRC Tech
Cheers
Allan
WRC Tech
Based on my limited knowledge of such things, my sympathies go out. Its hard work trying to fine tune these things, and especially if you are the first to try it over here. Good luck!
Brian
Thank you for your sympathy. However the upside is that both the other main tuners for Monaros etc in the UK are interested and have offered to share information and one has even come here to offer their assistance. In all honesty I am humbled by their helpfullness.
Regards
Allan
Thank you for your sympathy. However the upside is that both the other main tuners for Monaros etc in the UK are interested and have offered to share information and one has even come here to offer their assistance. In all honesty I am humbled by their helpfullness.
Regards
Allan
weltmeister said:
Brian
Thank you for your sympathy. However the upside is that both the other main tuners for Monaros etc in the UK are interested and have offered to share information and one has even come here to offer their assistance. In all honesty I am humbled by their helpfullness.
Regards
Allan
Thank you for your sympathy. However the upside is that both the other main tuners for Monaros etc in the UK are interested and have offered to share information and one has even come here to offer their assistance. In all honesty I am humbled by their helpfullness.
Regards
Allan
After some of the recent threads, what a good thing to happen.
WRC have cracked it!
Spent most of the day today at WRC watching while the specialist software engineer from EFI Live and Chris diagnosed the electrical holding back problem.
The EFI chap spent approximately three hours trying to get the 5.7 ecu communicating. Despite many e mails to and from New Zealand he was unable to get it talking. He is now waiting for some codes or file/info to try to fix the problem. If this doesn’t work he said the ecu will have to be replaced with one that will accept the new files. Alan has ordered a replacement ecu as a backup. "Thats what i call customer service"
The new file was loaded into the 6.0 vxr ecu without any problems, and the parameters were adjusting successfully. Chris continued on with the tuning on the rolling road. When reaching the upper limits he came across the same problem he had with the 5.7, the power peaked out at 515 bhp. The engine was running weak on boost and Chris could not get an air to fuel ratio of 8:1. Immediately he suspected a mechanical problem. On checking the fuel pressure he discovered it was falling to bellow one bar when on large throttle openings. This is despite the high capacity pump and injectors supplied in the kit being fitted. Monday morning WRC are fitting bespoke fuel systems to both cars with a separate regulator in the engine bay as the Monaros do not have a fuel return line.
Despite problems with these two cars over the weeks and obvious disruption to their busy workshop schedule both Alan and Chris are genuinely into their work burning the midnight oil and a few very early mornings to sort out any problems. I can’t wait for the midweek phone call that includes “don’t forget to bring your credit card”.
Regards Sean
Spent most of the day today at WRC watching while the specialist software engineer from EFI Live and Chris diagnosed the electrical holding back problem.
The EFI chap spent approximately three hours trying to get the 5.7 ecu communicating. Despite many e mails to and from New Zealand he was unable to get it talking. He is now waiting for some codes or file/info to try to fix the problem. If this doesn’t work he said the ecu will have to be replaced with one that will accept the new files. Alan has ordered a replacement ecu as a backup. "Thats what i call customer service"
The new file was loaded into the 6.0 vxr ecu without any problems, and the parameters were adjusting successfully. Chris continued on with the tuning on the rolling road. When reaching the upper limits he came across the same problem he had with the 5.7, the power peaked out at 515 bhp. The engine was running weak on boost and Chris could not get an air to fuel ratio of 8:1. Immediately he suspected a mechanical problem. On checking the fuel pressure he discovered it was falling to bellow one bar when on large throttle openings. This is despite the high capacity pump and injectors supplied in the kit being fitted. Monday morning WRC are fitting bespoke fuel systems to both cars with a separate regulator in the engine bay as the Monaros do not have a fuel return line.
Despite problems with these two cars over the weeks and obvious disruption to their busy workshop schedule both Alan and Chris are genuinely into their work burning the midnight oil and a few very early mornings to sort out any problems. I can’t wait for the midweek phone call that includes “don’t forget to bring your credit card”.
Regards Sean
I added my 2p 
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