Check Engine Light
Discussion
After having the new headers fitted I sporadically get this. Usually a quick restart clears it but today nothing would. I parked up for half an hour whilst looking around a new house and came back and it didnt do it. Am suspecting its the O2 sensors needing to get enough temp, correct? If so how long should I let the car warm up for?
They may not be switching fast enough for the PCM so it is complaining. It happens occasionally with certain headers, depending on design and how far back the O2 sits. Maybe just check the code to see exactly the issue.
If you wanted to you could disable the MIL light and still let the PCM log a code. So at least it wouldnt annoy you, but anyone scanning the car would still be able to read the code off for servicing/diags etc.
If you wanted to you could disable the MIL light and still let the PCM log a code. So at least it wouldnt annoy you, but anyone scanning the car would still be able to read the code off for servicing/diags etc.
the sensors were relocated ok, I think it was just they need to warm up more. Sarah used the car to get from work this morning = cold = check engine light.
I used the car, warmed up for a few minutes before I set off = check light came on. Once at the viewing and car left for a while the error disappeard so putting it down to when cold let the engine warm up for a good while first.
With regards to the O2 code, would my normal ODBII scanner collect the code? As for this issue, does it put the car into low octane map or is that seperate?
I used the car, warmed up for a few minutes before I set off = check light came on. Once at the viewing and car left for a while the error disappeard so putting it down to when cold let the engine warm up for a good while first.
With regards to the O2 code, would my normal ODBII scanner collect the code? As for this issue, does it put the car into low octane map or is that seperate?
Please excuse my ignorance here but is what you are talking about the "Check Engine" warning that appears on the centre console readout accompanied by a bleeping?
I get this intermittently for no apparent reason, the last few times after restarting the car after a short pit stop for food or petrol often get it when I switch back on and start the car to continue my journey. I did get it checked out but nothing untoward was found. It does make me feel uneasy that it keeps happening though. Is this just another one of the Monaro's quirks?
I get this intermittently for no apparent reason, the last few times after restarting the car after a short pit stop for food or petrol often get it when I switch back on and start the car to continue my journey. I did get it checked out but nothing untoward was found. It does make me feel uneasy that it keeps happening though. Is this just another one of the Monaro's quirks?
for me i suspect (as Ringram points out too) that it is the 02 sensor
have you had your exhaust modified? On the headers conversion the sensor can aparantly take a while to warm up so is related to that
It is pushing me ever more close to the bloody mafless route (dont say a word
) but I want to avoid that if possible
have you had your exhaust modified? On the headers conversion the sensor can aparantly take a while to warm up so is related to that
It is pushing me ever more close to the bloody mafless route (dont say a word
) but I want to avoid that if possibleMafless tunes can still use O2's.
It kind of gets confusing. Using the O2's at part throttle is called "closed loop" as the o2's provide a closed loop feedback system to the PCM for fueling. WOT and on cold starts the car is in "open loop" where the O2's are not used. This is because they are only accurate when hot and at 14.7:1. So WOT is out, as is cold starts.
Then you have different ways of measuring the airflow into the engine for WOT and other "open loop" operations. Thats where, MAF and MAFLESS (or more correctly Speed Density) comes into it. There is a 3rd way, called TPS based, or Alpha-n (Basically just reads RPM and Throttle position in a table and throws X fuel in).
So the factory setup is closed loop Maf based. HSV GTS-R is closed loop speed density based.
If you want to run your car without O2 sensors at all, its possible. That would be either open loop maf based or open loop speed density.
Mine runs open loop speed density. Mainly so I can command any air fuel ratio at any point that I want. With closed loop you cant. You are stuck at 14.7:1 unless you are at WOT etc.
Some benefits of this would be say during mild deceleration, you can lean out the fueling for more economy. Or low speed around town operations you could also lean it out. You may also want to have more finer control over WOT fueling rather than the crude RPM based single column table of the stock tune. Open loop lets you use manifold pressure variations to deliver different fueling amounts too.
Anyway, sorry for the technobabble again..
It kind of gets confusing. Using the O2's at part throttle is called "closed loop" as the o2's provide a closed loop feedback system to the PCM for fueling. WOT and on cold starts the car is in "open loop" where the O2's are not used. This is because they are only accurate when hot and at 14.7:1. So WOT is out, as is cold starts.
Then you have different ways of measuring the airflow into the engine for WOT and other "open loop" operations. Thats where, MAF and MAFLESS (or more correctly Speed Density) comes into it. There is a 3rd way, called TPS based, or Alpha-n (Basically just reads RPM and Throttle position in a table and throws X fuel in).
So the factory setup is closed loop Maf based. HSV GTS-R is closed loop speed density based.
If you want to run your car without O2 sensors at all, its possible. That would be either open loop maf based or open loop speed density.
Mine runs open loop speed density. Mainly so I can command any air fuel ratio at any point that I want. With closed loop you cant. You are stuck at 14.7:1 unless you are at WOT etc.
Some benefits of this would be say during mild deceleration, you can lean out the fueling for more economy. Or low speed around town operations you could also lean it out. You may also want to have more finer control over WOT fueling rather than the crude RPM based single column table of the stock tune. Open loop lets you use manifold pressure variations to deliver different fueling amounts too.
Anyway, sorry for the technobabble again..
Just think of 4 options
The most common 2. (Probably 90% of tunes)
Stock is MAF + O2
Usual Oz tune is MAFLESS + O2
Then more advanced
Maybe 1% of tunes
MAF no O2 (Not normally done as MAF limits airflow reading to around 450rwhp, after which it does not read airflow)
Probably the other 9% of tunes. (Most suited to Forced induction, large displacement etc)
MAFLESS no O2 (Most common "open loop" option due to no upper limit on power)
The most common 2. (Probably 90% of tunes)
Stock is MAF + O2
Usual Oz tune is MAFLESS + O2
Then more advanced
Maybe 1% of tunes
MAF no O2 (Not normally done as MAF limits airflow reading to around 450rwhp, after which it does not read airflow)
Probably the other 9% of tunes. (Most suited to Forced induction, large displacement etc)
MAFLESS no O2 (Most common "open loop" option due to no upper limit on power)
Here is some other guys experience of the whole thing (assuming its o2's)
Id take the disable MIL path personally. As long as fueling is ok, its nothing to worry about.
www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675482
Id take the disable MIL path personally. As long as fueling is ok, its nothing to worry about.
www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=675482
Richard, just wondering if it would be worth it for me to go down the mafless and GTS-R tune route with my Y2 clubby, you know the car (is std HSV 285 at the mo). If so, could you advise what possible gains I might get, the "howto" and would you be able to do the "ECU stuff", oh and how much is it likely to cost me? Any other parts reqd?
To be honest the VY2 with 285kw is pretty well setup. You can tweak things a little, but gains arnt going to be great. You might get a bit better throttle response, but overall numbers arnt going to show much of a difference. The Monaro was 260kw, so you have a 25kw advantage anyway. Thats why the Monaro will show good gains. Going mafless with an otrcai and a full dyno tune for your car would be the best bet. You should be able to get close to GTS-R power. See here http://chipmaster.com.au/monaro.html for a good overview of dialing in a bang on tune. As you can see doing it right takes time.
The issue is that to do it right would require a good few hours of dyno time etc. Which is why sponsors packages are popular, they can offset that initial development time on the dyno off against the packages they sell. Which also explains why they have set packages in the first place so that variables are kept to a minimum and the developed tunes while not 100% bang on for everyone will be fairly close.
Anyone wanting the maximum power would need a bespoke dyno tune, but bhp per £ starts dropping pretty fast at that point.
Unfortunately my spare time is pretty hard to come by these days. Most of it is stuck in data centers and to a desk designing virtual infrastructure systems. But I'm more than happy to help out with info and tools like efilive for people to understand and make the most of their own vehicles, the process is well understood and fairly straight forward (after a few confusing initial hours).
I know Roger was discussing otrcai's recently and developing a package. Maybe give him a bell and see what the deal is with a mafless tune and the otrcai.
Or if you want to go down the DIY path I can certainly point you in the right direction, get you up and running etc.
The issue is that to do it right would require a good few hours of dyno time etc. Which is why sponsors packages are popular, they can offset that initial development time on the dyno off against the packages they sell. Which also explains why they have set packages in the first place so that variables are kept to a minimum and the developed tunes while not 100% bang on for everyone will be fairly close.
Anyone wanting the maximum power would need a bespoke dyno tune, but bhp per £ starts dropping pretty fast at that point.
Unfortunately my spare time is pretty hard to come by these days. Most of it is stuck in data centers and to a desk designing virtual infrastructure systems. But I'm more than happy to help out with info and tools like efilive for people to understand and make the most of their own vehicles, the process is well understood and fairly straight forward (after a few confusing initial hours).
I know Roger was discussing otrcai's recently and developing a package. Maybe give him a bell and see what the deal is with a mafless tune and the otrcai.
Or if you want to go down the DIY path I can certainly point you in the right direction, get you up and running etc.
Gassing Station | HSV & Monaro | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff