Gumball cancelled
Discussion
www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=47760&in_page_id=34
Wasn't there a Monaro in it this year?
Wasn't there a Monaro in it this year?
willisit said:
www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=47760&in_page_id=34
Wasn't there a Monaro in it this year?
Wasn't there a Monaro in it this year?
not me thankfully, I'm booked for the cannonball in july. unfortunate turn of events for the gumballers but the organizers don't deserve the crucifying they are receiving in the press at the moment. An accident is an accident and just because one of the cars happened to be on an organized rally doesn't make the rally to blame. Some posts I've read on other forums would have you think people would gladly string up the brit drivers simply for being involved in an accident and possibly doing a runner.
Gargoyle - from the huge thread on PH and elsewhere I think it is not simply a case of 'string em up' because they are brits, in the gumball and had a crash.
There is some very questionable behaviour based on current informaation (relased on bail and then apparently trying to flee the country on a private jet)although until all the facts are clear and known it is easy to judge agreed and the whole business of how Gumballers actuallly drive and under what conditions i.e.tired, under the influence in very pwoerful cars etc..... is at the heart of it rather than oh dear its sad but accidents happen...
There is some very questionable behaviour based on current informaation (relased on bail and then apparently trying to flee the country on a private jet)although until all the facts are clear and known it is easy to judge agreed and the whole business of how Gumballers actuallly drive and under what conditions i.e.tired, under the influence in very pwoerful cars etc..... is at the heart of it rather than oh dear its sad but accidents happen...
The organisers are absolutely to blame. The rules state that anyone known to be acting dangerously (be it ludicrous speed, sleep deprivation, driving under the influence or all of the above) will be removed from the event. This has *never* happened so it's clear that the actual attitude is pretty much "anything goes".
Edited by mackie1 on Thursday 10th May 10:10
mackie1 said:
The organisers a absolutely to blame. The rules state that anyone known to be acting dangerously (be is ludicrous speed, sleep deprivation, driving under the influence or all of the above) will be removed from the event. This has *never* happened so it's clear that the actual attitude is pretty much "anything goes".
in deed they juse use it to pay lip service to outsiders
stigmundfreud said:
mackie1 said:
The organisers a absolutely to blame. The rules state that anyone known to be acting dangerously (be is ludicrous speed, sleep deprivation, driving under the influence or all of the above) will be removed from the event. This has *never* happened so it's clear that the actual attitude is pretty much "anything goes".
in deed they juse use it to pay lip service to outsiders
And cover their own ass
Plenty of debate here:www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=387366
I'm surprised I hadn't heard more actually considering it happened a week ago.
I'm not in posession of all the facts - but so far the guys involved sound like they deserve the slating - but it's all worded in such a way. Who knows, I wasn't there.
The organisers were on the radio recently. Seemed quite determined to keep the whole "it's not a race, we don't allow it" line going. <shrugs>
I'm not in posession of all the facts - but so far the guys involved sound like they deserve the slating - but it's all worded in such a way. Who knows, I wasn't there.
The organisers were on the radio recently. Seemed quite determined to keep the whole "it's not a race, we don't allow it" line going. <shrugs>
mackie1 said:
The organisers are absolutely to blame. The rules state that anyone known to be acting dangerously (be it ludicrous speed, sleep deprivation, driving under the influence or all of the above) will be removed from the event. This has *never* happened so it's clear that the actual attitude is pretty much "anything goes".
Edited by mackie1 on Thursday 10th May 10:10
but you see that is the crux of the matter. by your logic the government of the UK is at fault for not preventing all the drivers on UK roads from speeding, driving dangerously, driving drunk, or any other number of motoring offences and putting other road users at risk. all responsibility ends with the person involved. IF the porsche was speeding or driving erratically then the driver of that car is at fault and if the other car had any culpability in the accident then what does it matter if the porsche was speeding. he could have been driving completely within the law and the second car pulled out improperly then they are at fault. like others have said it is all a bit hazy still what actually happened. you state the rules above and they sound much like the road rules we all have to obey on a daily basis and yet I personally know people that have had licenses suspended for all sorts of things, licenses revoked, no insurance and yet they drive away. so if our own government can't keep people from driving when they are not supposed to then how can you blame the organizers of the gumball. even then that isn't what they are getting flak for, apparently they didn't come clean with the drivers the next morning and let everyone know what happened, perhaps it was bad judgement but they chose not to ruin the event for everyone else involved.
As for the driver of the porsche and the alleged escape attempt, if I was in the middle of a foreign land, don't speak the language and happen to have an accident I can't say I wouldn't try to get out of there. Self preservation is one of the most important attributes we all possess and rightly so.
As for gumball covering it's ass or attempting to they were completely right, if there is a single business anywhere in the world that doesn't try to protect itself from outsiders they won't be in business long, on top of that I doubt if any business anywhere has operated 100% above board throughout it's lifetime so like the Bible says let he who is without sin cast the first stone. from the amount of negative press gumball is receiving there are clearly lot's of people out there who think they are without sin.
gargoyle666 said:
mackie1 said:
The organisers are absolutely to blame. The rules state that anyone known to be acting dangerously (be it ludicrous speed, sleep deprivation, driving under the influence or all of the above) will be removed from the event. This has *never* happened so it's clear that the actual attitude is pretty much "anything goes".
Edited by mackie1 on Thursday 10th May 10:10
but you see that is the crux of the matter. by your logic the government of the UK is at fault for not preventing all the drivers on UK roads from speeding, driving dangerously, driving drunk, or any other number of motoring offences and putting other road users at risk. all responsibility ends with the person involved. IF the porsche was speeding or driving erratically then the driver of that car is at fault and if the other car had any culpability in the accident then what does it matter if the porsche was speeding. he could have been driving completely within the law and the second car pulled out improperly then they are at fault. like others have said it is all a bit hazy still what actually happened. you state the rules above and they sound much like the road rules we all have to obey on a daily basis and yet I personally know people that have had licenses suspended for all sorts of things, licenses revoked, no insurance and yet they drive away. so if our own government can't keep people from driving when they are not supposed to then how can you blame the organizers of the gumball. even then that isn't what they are getting flak for, apparently they didn't come clean with the drivers the next morning and let everyone know what happened, perhaps it was bad judgement but they chose not to ruin the event for everyone else involved.
As for the driver of the porsche and the alleged escape attempt, if I was in the middle of a foreign land, don't speak the language and happen to have an accident I can't say I wouldn't try to get out of there. Self preservation is one of the most important attributes we all possess and rightly so.
As for gumball covering it's ass or attempting to they were completely right, if there is a single business anywhere in the world that doesn't try to protect itself from outsiders they won't be in business long, on top of that I doubt if any business anywhere has operated 100% above board throughout it's lifetime so like the Bible says let he who is without sin cast the first stone. from the amount of negative press gumball is receiving there are clearly lot's of people out there who think they are without sin.
there is an offence of aiding and abetting
i know i have been done for it
stigmundfreud said:
there is no comparison between the government failing to stop deaths/speeding and the gumball.
Party hard at night, drive hard in the day
don't please try to compare the two and in the process basically state we're too thick to understand the difference.
Party hard at night, drive hard in the day
don't please try to compare the two and in the process basically state we're too thick to understand the difference.
Of course you can compare the two directly, there is no difference. how is what happened on the gumball any different than the thousands of deaths caused on UK roads by drivers under the influence of drink or drugs? If I get ten mates together for a cruise around Ireland and one of the drivers has an accident that causes a death, am I responsible. I don't think so. Max and Julie aren't responsible, they don't force anyone to drink nor do they force them to speed, just like the UK government isn't responsible for all road fatalities. Nick Morley and Vladimir ( don't know his last name offhand) were the two drivers and so all responsibility lies with them. The only way to prevent road deaths would be to remove all forms of vehicular transportation from our roads and we would all be walking again, you can cancel every road organized event and people will still die every day, who do you blame then.
Oh do me a favour gargoyle666.
I'll bloody well throw stones because I've never been on a week long booze and drug fuelled party hoon with a bunch of rich idiots in expensive cars*. I've seen numerous incidents of dangerous driving as part of the rally and heard various stories about people driving whilst under the influence or after they've been awake for days at a time.
The fact is the organisers have made no attempt to clamp down on this behaviour. Paying lip service is simply not enough.
I love a sprited drive as much as anyone but it's something that should be undertaken safely, wide awake and totally sober. Just going A-B is bad enough when drunk or tired, trying to keep up with a bunch of other people in supercars is just plain dangerous and this is what the event encourages. Did you see the *stupid* undertaking manoeuvre by the Reyland Escort a couple of years ago? They nearly died and could have easily taken out a few others too.
I don't disagree with road rallys in principle provided all those involved act responsibly and don't put themselves and other people needlessly at risk. Gumball is not like this and the organisers are ultimately responsible. If they actually did chuck people out for being dicks then people might think twice. Why haven't they? Maybe because it's uncool to spoil the "fun", maybe you can't tell rich arrogant people what to do these days. Maybe they know deep down that the more goofy stuff that happens the better. It makes for good TV and DVD sales. It was a gamble, a gamble that nothing serious would happen and it could continue to look like "a bit of fun" when in fact it was a timebomb.
I'm not one for knee jerk reactions, this has been coming for a long time.
*I appreciate that not everyone who does it is like that but a large quantity are.
I'll bloody well throw stones because I've never been on a week long booze and drug fuelled party hoon with a bunch of rich idiots in expensive cars*. I've seen numerous incidents of dangerous driving as part of the rally and heard various stories about people driving whilst under the influence or after they've been awake for days at a time.
The fact is the organisers have made no attempt to clamp down on this behaviour. Paying lip service is simply not enough.
I love a sprited drive as much as anyone but it's something that should be undertaken safely, wide awake and totally sober. Just going A-B is bad enough when drunk or tired, trying to keep up with a bunch of other people in supercars is just plain dangerous and this is what the event encourages. Did you see the *stupid* undertaking manoeuvre by the Reyland Escort a couple of years ago? They nearly died and could have easily taken out a few others too.
I don't disagree with road rallys in principle provided all those involved act responsibly and don't put themselves and other people needlessly at risk. Gumball is not like this and the organisers are ultimately responsible. If they actually did chuck people out for being dicks then people might think twice. Why haven't they? Maybe because it's uncool to spoil the "fun", maybe you can't tell rich arrogant people what to do these days. Maybe they know deep down that the more goofy stuff that happens the better. It makes for good TV and DVD sales. It was a gamble, a gamble that nothing serious would happen and it could continue to look like "a bit of fun" when in fact it was a timebomb.
I'm not one for knee jerk reactions, this has been coming for a long time.
*I appreciate that not everyone who does it is like that but a large quantity are.
gargoyle666 said:
stigmundfreud said:
there is no comparison between the government failing to stop deaths/speeding and the gumball.
Party hard at night, drive hard in the day
don't please try to compare the two and in the process basically state we're too thick to understand the difference.
Party hard at night, drive hard in the day
don't please try to compare the two and in the process basically state we're too thick to understand the difference.
Of course you can compare the two directly, there is no difference. how is what happened on the gumball any different than the thousands of deaths caused on UK roads by drivers under the influence of drink or drugs? If I get ten mates together for a cruise around Ireland and one of the drivers has an accident that causes a death, am I responsible. I don't think so. Max and Julie aren't responsible, they don't force anyone to drink nor do they force them to speed, just like the UK government isn't responsible for all road fatalities. Nick Morley and Vladimir ( don't know his last name offhand) were the two drivers and so all responsibility lies with them. The only way to prevent road deaths would be to remove all forms of vehicular transportation from our roads and we would all be walking again, you can cancel every road organized event and people will still die every day, who do you blame then.
Last time I checked the government was not encouraging people to drive quickly over long distances from party to party in 200mph cars. If you do you get into trouble.
Gumball isn't just a drive around Ireland with some mates, it's an international media circus which positively loves and wants show offs in flash cars. They want amusing mishaps, cop chases, big fines, risky driving, comedy japes and rich beautiful people acting like idiots who think the law doesn't apply to them and other people's safety is not of their concern. Sprits run high, peoples competitive streaks shine through, right feet get planted into the carpet and lorries get undertaken on the hard shoulder at 100mph+ speed differentials.
mackie1 said:
Oh do me a favour gargoyle666.
I'll bloody well throw stones because I've never been on a week long booze and drug fuelled party hoon with a bunch of rich idiots in expensive cars*. I've seen numerous incidents of dangerous driving as part of the rally and heard various stories about people driving whilst under the influence or after they've been awake for days at a time.
The fact is the organisers have made no attempt to clamp down on this behaviour. Paying lip service is simply not enough.
I love a sprited drive as much as anyone but it's something that should be undertaken safely, wide awake and totally sober. Just going A-B is bad enough when drunk or tired, trying to keep up with a bunch of other people in supercars is just plain dangerous and this is what the event encourages. Did you see the *stupid* undertaking manoeuvre by the Reyland Escort a couple of years ago? They nearly died and could have easily taken out a few others too.
I don't disagree with road rallys in principle provided all those involved act responsibly and don't put themselves and other people needlessly at risk. Gumball is not like this and the organisers are ultimately responsible. If they actually did chuck people out for being dicks then people might think twice. Why haven't they? Maybe because it's uncool to spoil the "fun", maybe you can't tell rich arrogant people what to do these days. Maybe they know deep down that the more goofy stuff that happens the better. It makes for good TV and DVD sales. It was a gamble, a gamble that nothing serious would happen and it could continue to look like "a bit of fun" when in fact it was a timebomb.
I'm not one for knee jerk reactions, this has been coming for a long time.
*I appreciate that not everyone who does it is like that but a large quantity are.
I'll bloody well throw stones because I've never been on a week long booze and drug fuelled party hoon with a bunch of rich idiots in expensive cars*. I've seen numerous incidents of dangerous driving as part of the rally and heard various stories about people driving whilst under the influence or after they've been awake for days at a time.
The fact is the organisers have made no attempt to clamp down on this behaviour. Paying lip service is simply not enough.
I love a sprited drive as much as anyone but it's something that should be undertaken safely, wide awake and totally sober. Just going A-B is bad enough when drunk or tired, trying to keep up with a bunch of other people in supercars is just plain dangerous and this is what the event encourages. Did you see the *stupid* undertaking manoeuvre by the Reyland Escort a couple of years ago? They nearly died and could have easily taken out a few others too.
I don't disagree with road rallys in principle provided all those involved act responsibly and don't put themselves and other people needlessly at risk. Gumball is not like this and the organisers are ultimately responsible. If they actually did chuck people out for being dicks then people might think twice. Why haven't they? Maybe because it's uncool to spoil the "fun", maybe you can't tell rich arrogant people what to do these days. Maybe they know deep down that the more goofy stuff that happens the better. It makes for good TV and DVD sales. It was a gamble, a gamble that nothing serious would happen and it could continue to look like "a bit of fun" when in fact it was a timebomb.
I'm not one for knee jerk reactions, this has been coming for a long time.
*I appreciate that not everyone who does it is like that but a large quantity are.
Are you a policeman by any chance or maybe a right wing politician, do you live in the real world like the rest of us? why should the organizers do anything to clamp down on reckless behaviour, are the gumballers the only people in the world to behave in a manner not befitting polite society? you seem to think of it as a media circus, well so is formula 1 and Bernie Ecclestone doesn't do anything to hinder his paying guests enjoyment of the spectacle. Granted there will be security personnel whose job it is to prevent the flagrant use of drink or drugs while at the circuit but they sure they don't stop it all and are only there to pay lip service to the authorities desire to stop people enjoying themselves. Then afterwards people get in their cars to drive home after partying hard all weekend and ultimately lives will be lost on the way home. Same goes for big rock concerts and any outdoor event that sees thousands of people attending. you buy a ticket that has all these rules about what isn't acceptable behaviour and just about everyone will flout those laws, by carrying concealed drink, drugs and weapons. The rules are only there to cover the asses of the management from adverse lawsuits.
It would be nice if everyone in the world acted responsibly and didn't put themselves and others at risk in any way but the world is a long long way from that so who is to blame for all the misfortune in the world? If I was in charge of Gumball and had people giving me £28000 for a drive around the world I wouldn't kick them off for much less than murder or rape because I would want them to enter again next year and give me more money. that is business. I'm not rich or arrogant but you also can't tell me what to do. I decide what I will or will not do. If I choose to obey a law it's only because I choose to for moral reasons and not because I'm supposed to. It doesn't matter where I am but I am the ultimate authority in my own life and the decisions I make for myself cannot be construed to be the fault of anyone else. If I was Nick Morley I wouldn't for a second think that gumball ruined my life so why should anyone else hold them to blame.
Again your analogies are way off. The fact is they state the rules but don't enforce them. That is solely down to the organisers. You'd have a knife confiscated at a concert, and probably be asked to leave.
Ofcourse personal responsibility matters but there's also a thing called incitement.
Chucking paying customers off the rally for breaching the rules would probably have a financial impact but there's also a thing called ethics.
That fact is if you joined an event I was organising and you broke the rules I sure as hell could tell you what to do and where to go. In the real world there are rules, laws and consequences.
Like I said earlier is was just a matter of time before something bad happened. It doesn't even matter what the outcome of the investigation of recent events is, we all know the kind of antics that go on and it's only a matter of time before it happens again.
Organised rallys where everyone is sober and awake no problem. Lock the keys up and make em take a breath test before giving them back. That's not being a kill joy, that's
ing good sense!
Ofcourse personal responsibility matters but there's also a thing called incitement.
Chucking paying customers off the rally for breaching the rules would probably have a financial impact but there's also a thing called ethics.
That fact is if you joined an event I was organising and you broke the rules I sure as hell could tell you what to do and where to go. In the real world there are rules, laws and consequences.
Like I said earlier is was just a matter of time before something bad happened. It doesn't even matter what the outcome of the investigation of recent events is, we all know the kind of antics that go on and it's only a matter of time before it happens again.
Organised rallys where everyone is sober and awake no problem. Lock the keys up and make em take a breath test before giving them back. That's not being a kill joy, that's
ing good sense!My opinion so far is that it was not a high speed crash. The Porsche looks in too good condition and the Golf is similar to a car I had when I was hit at 30/40 mph so the assumption of speeding may actually be incorrect.
Having seen some video's of past events the actual driving standard is very poor although this is the edited for dvd/sale so could well be the minority.
I have read the PH topic and there is a mixture of opinion. Just becasue rich people are hooning around Europe there seems to be a furore that they are in the wrong, you would assume the driver was breath tested so being over the limit is likely to be out.
Justice in these countries is not as fair as in western Europe, what happens next depends on the investigation and hopefully justice is served - but Johnny foreigner being banged up appears harsh - would that happen over here?
Having seen some video's of past events the actual driving standard is very poor although this is the edited for dvd/sale so could well be the minority.
I have read the PH topic and there is a mixture of opinion. Just becasue rich people are hooning around Europe there seems to be a furore that they are in the wrong, you would assume the driver was breath tested so being over the limit is likely to be out.
Justice in these countries is not as fair as in western Europe, what happens next depends on the investigation and hopefully justice is served - but Johnny foreigner being banged up appears harsh - would that happen over here?
AM04ARO said:
My opinion so far is that it was not a high speed crash. The Porsche looks in too good condition and the Golf is similar to a car I had when I was hit at 30/40 mph so the assumption of speeding may actually be incorrect.
except 30/40 t-bones dont push a car almost 100ft sideways and down a ditch
stigmundfreud said:
AM04ARO said:
My opinion so far is that it was not a high speed crash. The Porsche looks in too good condition and the Golf is similar to a car I had when I was hit at 30/40 mph so the assumption of speeding may actually be incorrect.
except 30/40 t-bones dont push a car almost 100ft sideways and down a ditch
Mine pushed me 30-40ft to the left having been hit in a similar fashion - granted the car that hit me did not but the actual damage to the porsche should have been totalled from a high speed crash - either it was doing a set speed or not. I think there are facts to come out of this and our opinions and suggestions are purely speculative.
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