Discussion
All this talk of insane 500bhp Hayabusas (got no idea how you ride one of those 
) and 800bhp VXRs has got me thinking what is the optimum (flywheel) bhp for the standard Monaro chassis? Some of you must have gone past the point where it goes from being maximum fun to rather scary?
For example, many years ago I had a Fiat Coupe turbo which I modified to nearly 300bhp but the end result was a car that would try to spin it's wheels everywhere and understeered terribly. In truth the standard 220bhp was just about perfect for it. Does the same thing apply here at a certain point?
) and 800bhp VXRs has got me thinking what is the optimum (flywheel) bhp for the standard Monaro chassis? Some of you must have gone past the point where it goes from being maximum fun to rather scary?For example, many years ago I had a Fiat Coupe turbo which I modified to nearly 300bhp but the end result was a car that would try to spin it's wheels everywhere and understeered terribly. In truth the standard 220bhp was just about perfect for it. Does the same thing apply here at a certain point?
440 wheel horse power on mine is waayyyyyyy to much for the road. I normally run it around 280ish (have variable boost control system fitted) and that spins the wheel all the way past 150mph if your brutal.
Not experianced yet but Id say 600 or 800bhp for the Monaro is a little to much for the road (although fun) as the tires are very small really. The difference is you can drift a car without falling off as clarkson and everyone else who does writeups about them seems to do. Engine and gearbox longevity become more of an issue with high power road cars as we expect them to run day in day out with only routine servicing. My mate RS4 did run close to 790 wheel HP at one point when he ran NOs and Co2 cooling but it riped the gearbox apart and got to hot to quick so he wont run it anymore (probably as Audi said they would not do a replacement gearbox again under warentee LOL)
Ive run the ring a few times now and found that handling and driver ability can make up alot for power differences unless its a straight line drag. I would add that this is NOT why Ive had to purchase a VXR600!!
Not experianced yet but Id say 600 or 800bhp for the Monaro is a little to much for the road (although fun) as the tires are very small really. The difference is you can drift a car without falling off as clarkson and everyone else who does writeups about them seems to do. Engine and gearbox longevity become more of an issue with high power road cars as we expect them to run day in day out with only routine servicing. My mate RS4 did run close to 790 wheel HP at one point when he ran NOs and Co2 cooling but it riped the gearbox apart and got to hot to quick so he wont run it anymore (probably as Audi said they would not do a replacement gearbox again under warentee LOL)
Ive run the ring a few times now and found that handling and driver ability can make up alot for power differences unless its a straight line drag. I would add that this is NOT why Ive had to purchase a VXR600!!
So a supercharger running say 6psi/520 fwhp should be just about right in terms of longevity, reliability and usability in the dry (I don't mind being careful in the wet)?
It's due to go to RapidGB in the near future for a Magnacharger and I don't want to ruin the car by going too far (9/12psi).
It's due to go to RapidGB in the near future for a Magnacharger and I don't want to ruin the car by going too far (9/12psi).
How long is a piece of string ?
And what do you want to use the car for ?
And then some power upgrade options will be more user friendly than others. A big TT build making insane numbers, will be all but useless on the road, unless you spend a lot of time with boost control to smooth the power delivery.
A Centrifugal blower by nature, is very user friendly, and can make big numbers, and still remain very easy to control under foot.
The Rootes blowers dont make huge numbers, but give good gains and will feel good for most day to day use, and some mild track use for example.
The twin screw should offer everything, although I am yet to be convinced the huge torque one could potentially make at low rpm's would be easy to control under foot.
IMO for a road car, shooting for big numbers, the centrifugal blowers are the way to go.
And at that, Id say 6-650rwhp is as much as most road cars could ever need, or make safe use of with some degree of safety.
Make that same power with the others, and you also have insane torque to go with it. That will feel great and its good in high gears, but traction will be more of a problem.
Start to venture above 700+rwhp, and it can be a bit of an animal at times.
And what do you want to use the car for ?
And then some power upgrade options will be more user friendly than others. A big TT build making insane numbers, will be all but useless on the road, unless you spend a lot of time with boost control to smooth the power delivery.
A Centrifugal blower by nature, is very user friendly, and can make big numbers, and still remain very easy to control under foot.
The Rootes blowers dont make huge numbers, but give good gains and will feel good for most day to day use, and some mild track use for example.
The twin screw should offer everything, although I am yet to be convinced the huge torque one could potentially make at low rpm's would be easy to control under foot.
IMO for a road car, shooting for big numbers, the centrifugal blowers are the way to go.
And at that, Id say 6-650rwhp is as much as most road cars could ever need, or make safe use of with some degree of safety.
Make that same power with the others, and you also have insane torque to go with it. That will feel great and its good in high gears, but traction will be more of a problem.
Start to venture above 700+rwhp, and it can be a bit of an animal at times.
stevieturbo said:
How long is a piece of string ?
And what do you want to use the car for ?
And what do you want to use the car for ?
I want to use it on the road as a daily driver, I don't plan any modifications to the gearbox or engine and I don't want to make any sacrifices in reliability. The only thing I will consider adding later are some APs when the discs warp (again).
tzh said:
Ouch! That's goin to cost u Wormus! Maybe not now, but sometime soon! Cost me a weekend in Paris when she agreed to my need for more speed on my ZX
it already has, I had to agree to look after my 2 kids while she goes to Las Vegas in Feb with her Mum. I've also agreed to a loft extension!wormus said:
tzh said:
Ouch! That's goin to cost u Wormus! Maybe not now, but sometime soon! Cost me a weekend in Paris when she agreed to my need for more speed on my ZX
it already has, I had to agree to look after my 2 kids while she goes to Las Vegas in Feb with her Mum. I've also agreed to a loft extension!
My last loft conversion cost me a year old Harley D.
It's bad but think of the long term smiles of forced induction! I plan to keep the car for a few years so why not make the most of it? It's all booked in to be done while I'm away on holiday and Mark has arranged for a 9psi unit to be delivered straight from Magnuson; should be good for ~550fwbhp. I cannot wait
stevieturbo said:
How long is a piece of string ?
And what do you want to use the car for ?
And then some power upgrade options will be more user friendly than others. A big TT build making insane numbers, will be all but useless on the road, unless you spend a lot of time with boost control to smooth the power delivery.
A Centrifugal blower by nature, is very user friendly, and can make big numbers, and still remain very easy to control under foot.
The Rootes blowers dont make huge numbers, but give good gains and will feel good for most day to day use, and some mild track use for example.
The twin screw should offer everything, although I am yet to be convinced the huge torque one could potentially make at low rpm's would be easy to control under foot.
IMO for a road car, shooting for big numbers, the centrifugal blowers are the way to go.
And at that, Id say 6-650rwhp is as much as most road cars could ever need, or make safe use of with some degree of safety.
Make that same power with the others, and you also have insane torque to go with it. That will feel great and its good in high gears, but traction will be more of a problem.
Start to venture above 700+rwhp, and it can be a bit of an animal at times.
And what do you want to use the car for ?
And then some power upgrade options will be more user friendly than others. A big TT build making insane numbers, will be all but useless on the road, unless you spend a lot of time with boost control to smooth the power delivery.
A Centrifugal blower by nature, is very user friendly, and can make big numbers, and still remain very easy to control under foot.
The Rootes blowers dont make huge numbers, but give good gains and will feel good for most day to day use, and some mild track use for example.
The twin screw should offer everything, although I am yet to be convinced the huge torque one could potentially make at low rpm's would be easy to control under foot.
IMO for a road car, shooting for big numbers, the centrifugal blowers are the way to go.
And at that, Id say 6-650rwhp is as much as most road cars could ever need, or make safe use of with some degree of safety.
Make that same power with the others, and you also have insane torque to go with it. That will feel great and its good in high gears, but traction will be more of a problem.
Start to venture above 700+rwhp, and it can be a bit of an animal at times.
Obviously being a PD screw blower guy I do not necessarily disagree (as I have also used centifugal) but whatever you decide on boost(if your internals are replaced to accomodate this pressure)my 20psi boost was a bitch to control in the wet,and tyre light up in dry.I have settled fot 14/15 psi boost and still find the throttle control very demanding all from a 4.6L. When you can max at 7500 and torque is insane from 2250 upwards high boost for daily driving is something of a no,no.
Not a GM motor but a F==D
That goes to show the all round greatness of a centrifugal blower ( and from a turbo guy...that is a big statement )
I can floor mine in say 3rd and 4th gears, and I dont start to lose traction until a little over 4500rpm. Once above that, it requires gentle throttle control to maintain grip.
So for tootling about, and even wet use, its very good.
But there is still no lack of torque for relaxed driving ( still not twin screw torque though ) But once the revs climb, it can get a little bit silly. Although mine is a slightly more extreme example.
Losing traction with ease into 3 figure speeds, isnt ideal for a daily driver either...hence Id say 650rwhp is about as far as anyone would realistically need to go for a road car. That should ensure total traction in 4th gear in the dry, with 3rd gear still providing a lot of fun.
I can floor mine in say 3rd and 4th gears, and I dont start to lose traction until a little over 4500rpm. Once above that, it requires gentle throttle control to maintain grip.
So for tootling about, and even wet use, its very good.
But there is still no lack of torque for relaxed driving ( still not twin screw torque though ) But once the revs climb, it can get a little bit silly. Although mine is a slightly more extreme example.
Losing traction with ease into 3 figure speeds, isnt ideal for a daily driver either...hence Id say 650rwhp is about as far as anyone would realistically need to go for a road car. That should ensure total traction in 4th gear in the dry, with 3rd gear still providing a lot of fun.
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