Discussion
Hi all
Ive recently bought a 'standard' 30k mile Monaro CV8 from a Vauxhall dealer. Although Im impressed with the performance, one thing I am concerned about is that the engine isnt particularly smooth either ticking over or when revved/under load. Ive only ever previously driven two other cars with V8s, a Rover V8 in a discovery and a really old Dodge charger. The impression I had of both was that they were very smooth a free revving (something inherent in the balance of a V engine I thought?). Ive been assured by the Vauxhall VXR trained mechanic that the engine is 'normal' and nothing is amiss. Not having driven any other Monaros I have nothing to compare with, but wondered what impression anybody else had of the general feel of these engines?
Also does anybody know what the exact specs/outputs of the standard (non VXR) engines are - I seem to be able to find mixed info around.
Also, also are there are any other aftermarket exhaust systems around other than the (expensive but good?) Wortex one - the standard one is so quiet!
Ive recently bought a 'standard' 30k mile Monaro CV8 from a Vauxhall dealer. Although Im impressed with the performance, one thing I am concerned about is that the engine isnt particularly smooth either ticking over or when revved/under load. Ive only ever previously driven two other cars with V8s, a Rover V8 in a discovery and a really old Dodge charger. The impression I had of both was that they were very smooth a free revving (something inherent in the balance of a V engine I thought?). Ive been assured by the Vauxhall VXR trained mechanic that the engine is 'normal' and nothing is amiss. Not having driven any other Monaros I have nothing to compare with, but wondered what impression anybody else had of the general feel of these engines?
Also does anybody know what the exact specs/outputs of the standard (non VXR) engines are - I seem to be able to find mixed info around.
Also, also are there are any other aftermarket exhaust systems around other than the (expensive but good?) Wortex one - the standard one is so quiet!
An LS1 is a LOT smoother than any Rover V8, and Id imagine a lot smoother than an old Charger.
Its just a modern design, and well built. V's are not inherently smooth by design...you need a straight 6 for that.
Perhaps a mounting has gone somewhere ? ( Although Id say mine is still fairly smooth bolted into my car solid )
Its just a modern design, and well built. V's are not inherently smooth by design...you need a straight 6 for that.
Perhaps a mounting has gone somewhere ? ( Although Id say mine is still fairly smooth bolted into my car solid )
I've driven, or have been driven in 3 cv8s of varying milleage. All have had an identical small wobbly feel at tick over which I've assumed is the norm. Cant say I've noticed anything too unusual when driven under load but then I have no other v8 experience to compare them by. For info on Monaro model difference try www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_holden_monaro.htm
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
Monnington said:
I kind of know what you mean about 'Lumpy' tickover.
I think you'll find it's down to the crank layout, not sure if it's a flat plane crank, but it's definately different to the old Rover/Charger lumps. That's why you don't get that Bullit Mustang V8 Burble, more of a TVR growl!!
LSx's do not have a flat plane crank. The firing order is different to a RV8, but that was to make a smoother running engine. It isnt the first V8 to use the firing order either, so its nothing out of the ordinary.I think you'll find it's down to the crank layout, not sure if it's a flat plane crank, but it's definately different to the old Rover/Charger lumps. That's why you don't get that Bullit Mustang V8 Burble, more of a TVR growl!!
As for the lumpy tickover. I dont see how such a smooth V8, which has a baby cam as standard would be lumpy.
Even mine isnt lum......umm ok..maybe it is a little.
http://media.putfile.com/383-ls1-epp-blower-cam-at...
I wouldn't call it rough but it does "throb" nicely under load. I find it sounds a bit "thrashier" under the bonnet than an older iron block V8 would, I guess due to the construction from alloy and the ticking from the injectors and all the extra ancillaries but that's not really detectable from inside.
All V8 engines are inherently smooth with perfect primary and secondary balance. Only a tortional damper is usually required. "Smoothness" is somewhat subjective and often referred to as NVH noise/vibration/harshness by the motor industry. I've owned a Vittesse, 72 Mustang with a Cleveland and 4.6 Mustang GT. Can't remember much about the Vitesse and it was a bit problematic. Didn't keep it long, found out it had been clocked and the cam had suffered through missed servicing. Certainly low to moderately tuned Rovers always sound/feel very good. The Cleveland had a 268 cam and a choppy idle. Would periodically "shiver". Had a softer note compared to the LS1 I would say. The Ford 4.6 does have a smoother idle than the LS1 but has less specific power. With its auto gearbox has an energetic launch but fades and doesn't rev usefully at all.
The LS1 is pretty low tech just being push rod with 2 valves. Not 4 valve, no variable valve timing or inlet geometry. It is these things which help spread power, economy, emissions etc and allow both smooth idle and high specific power. I'm not complaining though. Part of the appeal of the Monaro and its LS1 is its simplicity with little other choice in the market. My only complaint is the gearbox does transmit some vibration through the gear lever and buzzes a bit on mine.
The LS1 is pretty low tech just being push rod with 2 valves. Not 4 valve, no variable valve timing or inlet geometry. It is these things which help spread power, economy, emissions etc and allow both smooth idle and high specific power. I'm not complaining though. Part of the appeal of the Monaro and its LS1 is its simplicity with little other choice in the market. My only complaint is the gearbox does transmit some vibration through the gear lever and buzzes a bit on mine.
granada203028 said:
All V8 engines are inherently smooth with perfect primary and secondary balance. Only a tortional damper is usually required.
Bit of a 'sweeping' statement that and not factually correct. It totally depends on the V angle and also the crank arrangement. Example from the bike world, Ducati, 90 degree twin, perfect rocking couple, no balancer needed. Aprilia, 60 degree twin, two balancers needed. Also you could ask Renault just how many gearboxes their 'Wide Angle' V10 destroyed...
Must admit I don't know what angle the LS1 is, it's certainly not 45! (Meant 90) degree though..
Edited by Monnington on Tuesday 15th January 20:14
90 deg is the angle of choice for a V8 and indeed a V4. My VFR750 is nice and smooth with a much more characterful sound than an inline 4. V6s and V10s are often made on the same tooling as V8s and so have the same 90 deg V angle which is then non ideal. The LS1 rocking at idle is purely a combustion effect. Touch the block while it is running and you hardly know anything is going on inside. Not the same as an linear 4 which buzzes.
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