Monaro v. MR2 turbo (if you haven't seen it before)
Discussion
Recent talk of trackdays has prompted me to post this again..... I bet he wasn't running standard brakes !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4-l8OS06s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4-l8OS06s
Have to say that the Monaro certainly didn't disgrace it's self. Looking at it , it's made me reconsider having a track day in mine. Want to tweek the suspension first just to be sure.
Looking at the Anglesey circuit (some of 5th Gear tests are done on it I beleive) for me as it's the closest.
Looking at the Anglesey circuit (some of 5th Gear tests are done on it I beleive) for me as it's the closest.
Awesome vid - some great driving; on the limit the whole time! 
It was to the GTO (VXR8) what the UK GTS-R saloon was to the UK GTS
mogv8 said:
I bet he wasn't running standard brakes !
prob was... the HSV GTS Coupe he was chasing has 6 pot AP's as std. it was the model above the GTO Coupe that was sold in UK as VXR Monaro. Other major differences were the C4B Callaway engine (modified LS1) & hydratrak diff.It was to the GTO (VXR8) what the UK GTS-R saloon was to the UK GTS
Edited by HSVGTSCoupe on Monday 11th February 00:54
crisisjez said:
Looks like the `ro` was a bit raggedy at the end, had he done his tyres?
I thought that too - Looking at the vid the car is stable right up to the corner exit so I would say that the driver saw the MR2 in the mirror and tried to push harder and started to get quite heavy with the accelerator. Also they start missing apexes by a fair margin too.
Never done a track day in my life, or been trained by the Stig from TG, but why does the Ro take some of the corners wide and the MR2 cut the corners ie finding the apex to "straighten the curve" which is what we have all been told is the quickest way????? However the longer route of the Ro, seems to keep him in front - any ideas?
Just looked at it again.
I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
mogv8 said:
Just looked at it again.
I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
aha!
so (in a nutshell/simple terms) he goes in wider and then cuts a broader "imaginary" corner to enable him to straighten up before the apex??
wolfracer said:
mogv8 said:
Just looked at it again.
I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
aha!I think he's hitting most of the apex's but a couple are pretty cut up (you can see the MR2 bouncing around when it hits them) so that could be the reason.
He does approach wider and go in a lot deeper into one particular turn, but tail happy cars can gain doing this as he can unwind the steering and put the power down sooner, even if he doesn't carry as much speed going in.
so (in a nutshell/simple terms) he goes in wider and then cuts a broader "imaginary" corner to enable him to straighten up before the apex??
When I'm driving trackdays (rare these days) I generally take "late apexes". This means you turn in later and slower, and get more of your turning done before the apex, which you hit a little further along the kerbing. The main advantage is that if you've overestimated the corner entry speed, you'll miss the apex but "plow on" and use the corner exit for turning rather than acceleration.
Conversely, if you mess up an early apex (where you turn in faster and earlier), you find you have to add more steering and less throttle after the apex (frustrating and slow), or join the scenery (expensive and embarrasing).
Which technique is faster depends on the length of the next straight (and in racing whether you are trying to pass somebody into the corner), but on a trackday you should prioritize smoothness and safety over lap time.
Watching MotoGP is great for seeing cornering theory in practice. You often see a bike overtake under braking (early apex), and then get passed on the corner exit.
John
Similar style to you John as far as taking the car out on track - always braking early, initiate the turn and then power on as early as possible - i.e. less chance of overshoot, more controlled turn and power on quicker on exit.
Personally I'm not a fan of hitting apex's in big rwd wagons as if you're on the power it can be demanding enough to keep the rear end in shape when you've 4 wheels in contact with terra firma, but reduce that to 3 and if it starts to get out of shape it's a little harder to keep control of.
Now give me a front wheel drive and you'll normally find me on 2 or 3 wheels after riding the rumble strips like a cheap 2 doller ho
Personally I'm not a fan of hitting apex's in big rwd wagons as if you're on the power it can be demanding enough to keep the rear end in shape when you've 4 wheels in contact with terra firma, but reduce that to 3 and if it starts to get out of shape it's a little harder to keep control of.
Now give me a front wheel drive and you'll normally find me on 2 or 3 wheels after riding the rumble strips like a cheap 2 doller ho
HSVGTSCoupe said:
I think it was a highly modified Datsun 120Y Coupe. As a std car it was a laughing stock (couldnt pull a fart out of my arse!) but reading some of the messages posted by the MR2 guy who put the vid up he mentions an old datsun with a 350HP donk - me thinks this is it.
Yeah I wondered what that was too. At first I thought it was the legengary 240Z but they had round lights. It does look to me like a 120Y Indian Express 
Late apex or not you should (on most corners) still clip both the outside and inside edges - I still say he was getting rather ragged (or not really trying) in the later half of the vid.
You don't want to apex too late in something like the 'ro as you'll end up cornering alot slower as no matter what you do you still have to deal with polar interia of the big fat engine up the front.
There's some great books on the subject:
"Going Faster" - Skip Barber.
"Drive to win" - Carrol smith.
However if you have an engineering streak in you then "The technique of motor racing" by Piero Taruffi is simply stunning. First published in the 50's it really is an indepth read written by not only a legendary driver but also somebody with an engineering background. Although I would say his advice on a good crash helmet being made of cork and leather is to be taken with a pinch of salt.
You don't want to apex too late in something like the 'ro as you'll end up cornering alot slower as no matter what you do you still have to deal with polar interia of the big fat engine up the front.
There's some great books on the subject:
"Going Faster" - Skip Barber.
"Drive to win" - Carrol smith.
However if you have an engineering streak in you then "The technique of motor racing" by Piero Taruffi is simply stunning. First published in the 50's it really is an indepth read written by not only a legendary driver but also somebody with an engineering background. Although I would say his advice on a good crash helmet being made of cork and leather is to be taken with a pinch of salt.
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