How much power is enough?
Discussion
I'm really pleased with my SC CV8 but cannot help wishing some times it had more power. It will blow most average cars into the weeds but you have to be doing well over 120mph before there's a massive difference against something like the Mustang I came across today?
How much power would it take to make a CV8 do 0-100mph in 6secs and what would I need to do to the rest of the car to put the power down. Stevie?
How much power would it take to make a CV8 do 0-100mph in 6secs and what would I need to do to the rest of the car to put the power down. Stevie?
Interesting as I had some fun with a Roush Mustang last year.
0 - 80 he was stronger, 80+ I could pull away (all on private roads off course).
I am hoping Roger can weave his magic at the end of the month to help put more power down by upgrading the rear end - we shall see whether it works.
0 - 80 he was stronger, 80+ I could pull away (all on private roads off course).
I am hoping Roger can weave his magic at the end of the month to help put more power down by upgrading the rear end - we shall see whether it works.
Well...for 0-100 in 6 secs, you need traction. And TBH its never going to happen easily on the street, even with track type tyres.
Even very high 6's would be pushing it on the street.
On the track.....not sure exactly, but my better runs, with drag radials would see circa 113mph in 6.8-6.9 seconds with a 1.7x sec 60ft. From GPS logs of those runs, Id guess 0-100mph is around 5.7-5.9secs
I dont see how it would be possible to replicate that sort of traction on the road.
With something like Toyo 888's, or Kumho Ecsta V70A ( the Kumho's do not stay legal long enough to consider for road use...although they do grip well. Ive a pair at the minute, and I am disgusted with them in terms of legal tread ) and new propshaft, diff and half shafts, then it should have the potential to be reliable ( driver dependant ).
I would say based on my own experience, the std gearbox should cope...but then others have had issues with their boxes on std engines etc. I dont think there has been any gear tooth breakage though, or input/output breakage...which is where too much power comes into it.
I have never had a single gearbox problem, either with the totally standard T56, or my current uprated T56 ( cryo'd and uprated shift bits, Viper mainshaft etc, but still standard gearset )
Will the current generation of Harrop or Maggie do it ?? I dont know.
If it was me....and naturally I did do this lol, I'd opt for a centrifugal blower if shooting for a very fast streetable car. You dont have to worry about huge torque wanting to break things, and break traction all the time low down, yet it produces excellent power at the top end.
With the above Kumho's, 265/45x16 and some rear suspension changes my car does now seem to grip in 3rd gear in the dry. So tyres do make a huge huge difference. Normal road tyres are useless even all the way thru 4th.
Not sure how a Dynapack @ the Hub reading compares to the DynoDynamics stuff, but this is a graph from the middle of January.
Up to about 6000rpm its pretty much ok. After that the car wouldnt rev properly due to missfires etc. I was surprised the torque was so high.
Runs in 4th gear, 3.55 diff, 97 SUL fuel only. Most runs were in the region of 810-840. Things were deteriorating the entire time. Rings hadnt bedded in, and it was chucking oil out, it was missfiring. Not great in general, despite the numbers.
The cam in this wouldnt be ideal for a Monaro road car...bit too choppy, but it is not bad at all. A milder cam would just make it so much nicer and smoother.
My YSi blower is also a little loud....
Glad to say now though, that most of the problems seem to be addressed, and the car is running much much better now
and revving properly. So hopefully its onwards and upwards.
Even very high 6's would be pushing it on the street.
On the track.....not sure exactly, but my better runs, with drag radials would see circa 113mph in 6.8-6.9 seconds with a 1.7x sec 60ft. From GPS logs of those runs, Id guess 0-100mph is around 5.7-5.9secs
I dont see how it would be possible to replicate that sort of traction on the road.
With something like Toyo 888's, or Kumho Ecsta V70A ( the Kumho's do not stay legal long enough to consider for road use...although they do grip well. Ive a pair at the minute, and I am disgusted with them in terms of legal tread ) and new propshaft, diff and half shafts, then it should have the potential to be reliable ( driver dependant ).
I would say based on my own experience, the std gearbox should cope...but then others have had issues with their boxes on std engines etc. I dont think there has been any gear tooth breakage though, or input/output breakage...which is where too much power comes into it.
I have never had a single gearbox problem, either with the totally standard T56, or my current uprated T56 ( cryo'd and uprated shift bits, Viper mainshaft etc, but still standard gearset )
Will the current generation of Harrop or Maggie do it ?? I dont know.
If it was me....and naturally I did do this lol, I'd opt for a centrifugal blower if shooting for a very fast streetable car. You dont have to worry about huge torque wanting to break things, and break traction all the time low down, yet it produces excellent power at the top end.
With the above Kumho's, 265/45x16 and some rear suspension changes my car does now seem to grip in 3rd gear in the dry. So tyres do make a huge huge difference. Normal road tyres are useless even all the way thru 4th.
Not sure how a Dynapack @ the Hub reading compares to the DynoDynamics stuff, but this is a graph from the middle of January.
Up to about 6000rpm its pretty much ok. After that the car wouldnt rev properly due to missfires etc. I was surprised the torque was so high.
Runs in 4th gear, 3.55 diff, 97 SUL fuel only. Most runs were in the region of 810-840. Things were deteriorating the entire time. Rings hadnt bedded in, and it was chucking oil out, it was missfiring. Not great in general, despite the numbers.
The cam in this wouldnt be ideal for a Monaro road car...bit too choppy, but it is not bad at all. A milder cam would just make it so much nicer and smoother.
My YSi blower is also a little loud....
Glad to say now though, that most of the problems seem to be addressed, and the car is running much much better now
and revving properly. So hopefully its onwards and upwards.Edited by stevieturbo on Saturday 10th May 23:46
t, only 850 hp, nice one.
850 @ hubs, although as I said, the car was missfiring like mad most of the day, although to about 6300rpm that run appeared fairly clean.
I tried the water/meth injection too, and immediately lost about 150-200bhp due to severe missfires.
So many problems....I think a lot of that was down to the cheapy Bosch coils I was using. I now have a set of LS coils, as well as addressing a lot of other problems.
It does drive nicer, and revs pretty easily to 7000rpm ( have seen 7400rpm on logs !! ) It has never done that before. In fact...it hasnt revved cleanly above 6300rpm for over 18 months, and even then, anything above 6000rpm was difficult.
I tried the water/meth injection too, and immediately lost about 150-200bhp due to severe missfires.
So many problems....I think a lot of that was down to the cheapy Bosch coils I was using. I now have a set of LS coils, as well as addressing a lot of other problems.
It does drive nicer, and revs pretty easily to 7000rpm ( have seen 7400rpm on logs !! ) It has never done that before. In fact...it hasnt revved cleanly above 6300rpm for over 18 months, and even then, anything above 6000rpm was difficult.
wormus said:
I'm really pleased with my SC CV8 but cannot help wishing some times it had more power. It will blow most average cars into the weeds but you have to be doing well over 120mph before there's a massive difference against something like the Mustang I came across today?
How much power would it take to make a CV8 do 0-100mph in 6secs and what would I need to do to the rest of the car to put the power down. Stevie?
From experience of big power engines and now tuning an LS1, I would suggest a single turbo and a wet progressive nitrous system. They have completely transformed my car and NOS is still the best kept secret in tuning for some strange reason. I should be able to give you dyno (engine, not RR or hub) figures plus 1/4 mile times soon (ish) on completion of engine & fuelling upgrades to allow me to run more NOS plus the turbo safely.How much power would it take to make a CV8 do 0-100mph in 6secs and what would I need to do to the rest of the car to put the power down. Stevie?
0-100 7.4 seconds, i want one.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&...
Edited by jamiep on Sunday 11th May 11:37
Vixpy1 said:
Lets see who goes faster though
Envy claim a lot more power than me, and run ET Streets, in a partially stripped car. Took them a lot longer to match my times, which is a fully trimmed road car, on radial tyres a fraction of the width a Supra can run.
Even stranger....power and trap speeds are very closely linked. So maybe someones power is off a tad ? I have the higher traps.
Re-Supra..Paul seems to have come a long way from his Mini days.....who I smoked back then too at Santa Pod in 94, after driving there in my Mini...luggage on board too..In fact...I was the fastest road car a the event, and 3rd overall.
More worrying at the time, was when I visited his then place of work, Minispares...and he tried to sell me a set of points, for an electronic dizzy..
As others have noted though.....big numbers are all good and well. But what a nasty power curve it has.
Envy supra is not stripped, its infact heavier than stock, TRD widebody kit/full leather retrim/ rollcage/ full stereo system/spare wheel etc, it does have a carbon bonnet but these are no lighter than the stock ali one;) its best time is a 9.86, not bad for a full weight street car.
Edited by jamiep on Sunday 11th May 13:34
jamiep said:
Envy supra is not stripped, its infact heavier than stock, TRD widebody kit/full leather retrim/ rollcage/ full stereo system/spare wheel etc, it does have a carbon bonnet but these are no lighter than the stock ali one;) its best time is a 9.86, not bad for a full weight street car.
The Envy car does now run an interior etc.Edited by jamiep on Sunday 11th May 13:34
But previously, all I could see inside, apart from dash and drivers seat...was paint.
So for quite a time, the car was partially stripped out as I say. Although the last time I seen it, at TOTB, yes, it did have an interior.
stevieturbo said:
Vixpy1 said:
Lets see who goes faster thoughEnvy claim a lot more power than me, and run ET Streets, in a partially stripped car. Took them a lot longer to match my times, which is a fully trimmed road car, on radial tyres a fraction of the width a Supra can run.
Even stranger....power and trap speeds are very closely linked. So maybe someones power is off a tad ? I have the higher traps.
As you rightly say, the proof is on the strips / circuits.The Envy supra made 945 @ Rear Hubs (Thor Racing Dynapack) which is probably about 800 odd @ the wheels on a dyno dynamics.
My supra made about 600 fly, partly stripped, not much could keep up with me on the street, my 580bhp monaro would be left for dead by it.
speedo video of my supra.
http://media.putfile.com/GT4088-top-speed-run
My supra made about 600 fly, partly stripped, not much could keep up with me on the street, my 580bhp monaro would be left for dead by it.
speedo video of my supra.
http://media.putfile.com/GT4088-top-speed-run
jamiep said:
The Envy supra made 945 @ Rear Hubs (Thor Racing Dynapack) which is probably about 800 odd @ the wheels on a dyno dynamics.
My supra made about 600 fly, partly stripped, not much could keep up with me on the street, my 580bhp monaro would be left for dead by it.
speedo video of my supra.
http://media.putfile.com/GT4088-top-speed-run
When I ran my fastest times....a few months earlier I had made 735hub hp on a dynapack.....My supra made about 600 fly, partly stripped, not much could keep up with me on the street, my 580bhp monaro would be left for dead by it.
speedo video of my supra.
http://media.putfile.com/GT4088-top-speed-run
No idea what sort of power I had during my fastest times, as I had made a few changes. Nothing big though.
I dont really care about dyno numbers...as long as it performs on the track, I'll be happy.....although even that can be difficult enough a times !!!!
So what's the answer, pull out my LS1, bore it to 7L and go for 900fwbhp with a Maggie 2300? Would this be the way to go: www.magnacharger.com/ ?
wormus said:
So what's the answer, pull out my LS1, bore it to 7L and go for 900fwbhp with a Maggie 2300? Would this be the way to go: www.magnacharger.com/ ?
Get a track day car to scratch the itch, the `ro` needs too much to use that amount of power IMO
(If you keep spending on the `ro` you`ll never be able to get an Audi R8
)Grip, gearing and power to weight count against the Ro. Have to say I had a cam and heaeds package that made it a bit more top end but the pay off was more tractable use of big power and torque which compensated for the grip and gearing issue woulkd do 70 - 100 in 4th in 4 secs not much could live with that...
These engines deliver - it is the platform - just look at the Corvettes, Saleens and Ultima's.....ill JamieP's Ro looks fab and if that had ben around a few months I would have gone down that road rather than my oil powered panzer.....
Still looking at a another 12 months and a SC 6.2 VXR8....
These engines deliver - it is the platform - just look at the Corvettes, Saleens and Ultima's.....ill JamieP's Ro looks fab and if that had ben around a few months I would have gone down that road rather than my oil powered panzer.....
Still looking at a another 12 months and a SC 6.2 VXR8....
wormus said:
So what's the answer, pull out my LS1, bore it to 7L and go for 900fwbhp with a Maggie 2300? Would this be the way to go: http://www.magnacharger.com/ ?
I am not convinced a big torque engine like that is the way to go, for a fast usable road car, or indeed track car.Whilst having a setup that can generate say 7-800lbft at 2000rpm....just how exactly will you get that to the tarmac easily ?
If the TV blower is indeed available, Id be inclined to fit it to a smaller motor.
Failing that, go whatever cc you want, and a centrifugal blower. So far, Im very pleased with my 383/6.3 litre.
Next time around, I will use a 402, purely because its the next cheapest step, and I see no point in going bigger for what I want to achieve.
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