3 SC Monaro's for sale in the Classifieds here!
Discussion
There's no "wannabe" VXR 600 there Roger - as you were referring to mine.
To be totally honest, I would be very disappointed running a H122 @ 12PSi, yes... 12PSi!!! - and only achieving just above the 600bhp mark at the flywheel.
The difference relating to vehicles in 1/4mile times come solely down to your increased traction and handling - tyres, suspension, etc - not power. As well as driver.
Get it mapped "correctly" and you would be able to badge yours up as at least a VXR 700.
I don't know why you guys think it is such an achievement to get 600bhp out of these engines, before drive-train losses. It isn't. They're 6000cc - and bloody good engines at that!
That only equates to 100bhp per 1000cc - not exactly hard to achieve on any FI setup.
Just look at the Japanese factory standard specification FI cars... they achieve much more than 100bhp per 1000cc straight out the factory - untouched!!! When uprated using similar parts (intake, intercooler, manifold, exhuast system, re-map - maybe slightly better FI unit) they easily achieve AT LEAST 200bhp per 1000cc - long before you have to start altering the fuelling or cam.
Being an engineer with a Motorsport and Automotive background - it isn't exactly rocket science.
To be totally honest, I would be very disappointed running a H122 @ 12PSi, yes... 12PSi!!! - and only achieving just above the 600bhp mark at the flywheel.
The difference relating to vehicles in 1/4mile times come solely down to your increased traction and handling - tyres, suspension, etc - not power. As well as driver.
Get it mapped "correctly" and you would be able to badge yours up as at least a VXR 700.
I don't know why you guys think it is such an achievement to get 600bhp out of these engines, before drive-train losses. It isn't. They're 6000cc - and bloody good engines at that!
That only equates to 100bhp per 1000cc - not exactly hard to achieve on any FI setup.
Just look at the Japanese factory standard specification FI cars... they achieve much more than 100bhp per 1000cc straight out the factory - untouched!!! When uprated using similar parts (intake, intercooler, manifold, exhuast system, re-map - maybe slightly better FI unit) they easily achieve AT LEAST 200bhp per 1000cc - long before you have to start altering the fuelling or cam.
Being an engineer with a Motorsport and Automotive background - it isn't exactly rocket science.
Edited by Tiger_kpt on Friday 10th July 08:38
TBH - I dont think Im getting that much more grip, Im just sensible off the line. Most people were getting very excited and smoking the tires up. My trap speed however is more or less 120 at the pod so Im supprised that anyone with over 600 is not getting close to that?
Will be interesting to see what the difference is at Rapid. I know from my turbo bike days that dyno's vary wildly in readings. Nothing wrong in that but when camparing apples with apples you need to do use one setup at a time really.
Will be interesting to see what the difference is at Rapid. I know from my turbo bike days that dyno's vary wildly in readings. Nothing wrong in that but when camparing apples with apples you need to do use one setup at a time really.
Tiger, you clearly don`t have the first clue about anything, yet post like you do.
Trap speed over the quarter is a very very good indication of horsepower. It varies very little with grip conditions or suspension or driver ability (Unless you miss several gears)
This is a solid, cast iron fact and forms one of the basics of drag racing so cannot be disputed by the billy bullshit you`ll come out with I`m sure.
Your car was doing 111`s wasn`t it, well that puts it smack in the middle of ALL the other cars there runing 6psi so in the real world your extra power seems to have vanished
BTW you can call your car a VXR 600 or Mabel or whatever you like, the fact is there was only ever 1 produced and certificated as such, so your claim, on this forum where there is a huge population of people who actually know their history, makes you sound like a right plonker.
So save it for the mug`s.
In fact is your car even a VXR500, or is it just a Monaro with a blower on it?
If it is you`ll have a certificate to prove so, if it isn`t I`d change your ad on pistonheads before someone complains to the administrator as you`d be misselling it mate
Trap speed over the quarter is a very very good indication of horsepower. It varies very little with grip conditions or suspension or driver ability (Unless you miss several gears)
This is a solid, cast iron fact and forms one of the basics of drag racing so cannot be disputed by the billy bullshit you`ll come out with I`m sure.
Your car was doing 111`s wasn`t it, well that puts it smack in the middle of ALL the other cars there runing 6psi so in the real world your extra power seems to have vanished
BTW you can call your car a VXR 600 or Mabel or whatever you like, the fact is there was only ever 1 produced and certificated as such, so your claim, on this forum where there is a huge population of people who actually know their history, makes you sound like a right plonker.
So save it for the mug`s.
In fact is your car even a VXR500, or is it just a Monaro with a blower on it?
If it is you`ll have a certificate to prove so, if it isn`t I`d change your ad on pistonheads before someone complains to the administrator as you`d be misselling it mate
Edited by crisisjez on Friday 10th July 09:43
S600VXR said:
TBH - I dont think Im getting that much more grip, Im just sensible off the line. Most people were getting very excited and smoking the tires up. My trap speed however is more or less 120 at the pod so Im supprised that anyone with over 600 is not getting close to that?
Will be interesting to see what the difference is at Rapid. I know from my turbo bike days that dyno's vary wildly in readings. Nothing wrong in that but when camparing apples with apples you need to do use one setup at a time really.
Will be interesting to see what the difference is at Rapid. I know from my turbo bike days that dyno's vary wildly in readings. Nothing wrong in that but when camparing apples with apples you need to do use one setup at a time really.
I run very consistant times and speeds at Shakey's. Running totally OEM suspension - apart from Pedders springs (on OEM dampers) - and OEM alloy wheels with 235 or 245 wide road tyres. All of my starts were sensible, I could only go WOT in 3rd gear - they needed to be sensible like this due to the lack of traction - and I never wet or smoked the tyres up once on the day, so always cold-ish tyres.
Our power curves will look totally different TBH - even if done on the same dyno, same day, etc.
111.5mph was my highest trap speed of the day. Do remember though that my 608bhp at the flywheel is my "PEAK" power. And this power comes in at 6200rpm. At 5550rpm I am making approximately 575bhp. At 4900rpm I am making 525bhp. Look at my graphs in the other thread.
If you are running a Wortec map, like I WAS... I am guessing that your peak power is at 5500rpm - and then your curve starts to drop away? Am I right?
That is what mine did on the Wortec map. Same dyno, different day, etc.
If that is the case, then when you vehicle is mapped up "correctly"... your vehicle will also be producing more and more power all the way up to 6200rpm, just like mine is now. And not running rich. Therefore, I would expect yours to be closer to the 700bhp flywheel mark. It's simple maths.
Tiger_kpt said:
It's simple maths.
Ok so show us this simple maths that allows you to have 608HP from a std ls2 running a magnusson 112 at6PSI and I`ll get the experts including Magnussen to have a quick look at it.
Can`t say fairer than that mate
Keep the calculations fairly simple though otherwise you`ll loose me
jamiep said:
where was it dyno'd?
Just read the opening page to your dyno thread, I might have to take my current car there as it seems to make good pub bragging numbers My old monaro made 40 bhp more on that dyno than it did 3 days previously on a well respected dyno i use.Get it on the Surrey rolling road then lets hear all the exscuses of belt slip and high intake temps
;)Edited by jamiep on Friday 10th July 10:10
crisisjez said:
Tiger, you clearly don`t have the first clue about anything, yet post like you do.
Trap speed over the quarter is a very very good indication of horsepower. It varies very little with grip conditions or suspension or driver ability (Unless you miss several gears)
This is a solid, cast iron fact and forms one of the basics of drag racing so cannot be disputed by the billy bullshit you`ll come out with I`m sure.
Your car was doing 111`s wasn`t it, well that puts it smack in the middle of ALL the other cars there runing 6psi so in the real world your extra power seems to have vanished
BTW you can call your car a VXR 600 or Mabel or whatever you like, the fact is there was only ever 1 produced and certificated as such, so your claim, on this forum where there is a huge population of people who actually know their history, makes you sound like a right plonker.
So save it for the mug`s.
In fact is your car even a VXR500, or is it just a Monaro with a blower on it?
If it is you`ll have a certificate to prove so, if it isn`t I`d change your ad on pistonheads before someone complains to the administrator as you`d be misselling it mate
Trap speed over the quarter is a very very good indication of horsepower. It varies very little with grip conditions or suspension or driver ability (Unless you miss several gears)
This is a solid, cast iron fact and forms one of the basics of drag racing so cannot be disputed by the billy bullshit you`ll come out with I`m sure.
Your car was doing 111`s wasn`t it, well that puts it smack in the middle of ALL the other cars there runing 6psi so in the real world your extra power seems to have vanished
BTW you can call your car a VXR 600 or Mabel or whatever you like, the fact is there was only ever 1 produced and certificated as such, so your claim, on this forum where there is a huge population of people who actually know their history, makes you sound like a right plonker.
So save it for the mug`s.
In fact is your car even a VXR500, or is it just a Monaro with a blower on it?
If it is you`ll have a certificate to prove so, if it isn`t I`d change your ad on pistonheads before someone complains to the administrator as you`d be misselling it mate
Edited by crisisjez on Friday 10th July 09:43
Yeah, you obviously got out on the wrong side of bed this morning Jez. Totally out of order - or are you just an arrogant git by nature?
It isn't a genuine VXR500 - and nowhere on this forum or in the advert have I advertised it as a VXR500 - so why not take a read and get your facts right before you open your pie hole?
It may have VXR500 badges on it, which were on when I bought her at the start of the year. Neither have I referred to her as a VXR600. She just happens to be a Monaro VXR that is better specification than a VXR500 and pushing out better figures. I'm not "that" anal to refer to her as a VXR500 or VXR600.
I agree partially that trap speed is a good indication of power level over a 1/4mile set distance run - if traction wasn't an issue or a variable.
But you obviously aren't thinking about it - so again, "trap it".
Look at my dyno graphs and read above. 608bhp is my PEAK flywheel power - coming in at 6200rpm! I bet most, if not all, of the Wortec map dyno charts create peak power at circa 5500rpm - then anything after this in the rev range is "dead-space".
By these "standards" I would only be producing 542bhp flywheel power - according to my Wortec map dyno print out.
Due to lack of traction (ability to get all of the power down) - I could not go WOT until I was well into 3rd gear, by which time 1/8mile had already passed... thus over that intitial 1/8mile stretch of the total 1/4mile run, I was not developing anywhere near my peak power - anywhere near to the flywheel 608bhp mark.
Therefore, I think you will find that traction does have a very big part to play in trap speeds over a SET (non-varibale) difference.
As an extreme example for Jez's benefit...
Deleting driver skill and car specification from the variable list.
Driving the same car in a straight line on an iced up road over 1/4mile.
Against driving the same car in a straight line on a dry glue-prepped drag strip over 1/4mile.
Both at WOT in every gear - to produce the vehicle's peak power.
Are you telling me that both cars are going to be producing the same 1/4mile ET's and Trap Speeds? Because that is what you have just suggested above - one of your "cast iron facts" Jez.
Whether the variable is your tyres and suspension (vehicle spec affecting traction limitations). Or the variable is the ground surface. Friction is friction. Friction is traction.
It is simple science!
Better haul your ass back to school before you attempt "educating" any of us.
Edited by Tiger_kpt on Friday 10th July 10:14
Tiger_kpt said:
Just look at the Japanese factory standard specification FI cars... they achieve much more than 100bhp per 1000cc straight out the factory - untouched!!! When uprated using similar parts (intake, intercooler, manifold, exhuast system, re-map - maybe slightly better FI unit) they easily achieve AT LEAST 200bhp per 1000cc - long before you have to start altering the fuelling or cam.
Being an engineer with a Motorsport and Automotive background - it isn't exactly rocket science.
Edited by Tiger_kpt on Friday 10th July 08:38
And being said ` engineer` I`m surprised you are comparing two totally different engine type`s, developed 30 years apart as part of your argument.
Mate, before I stripped my car I was running exactly the same spec as S600VXR.
At Santa Pod, with other Forum members, on a wet, cold and slippy track I managed a consistent 117mph trap speed.
My 60ft time varied from 2.6 to 3.2 and my best ET was 13.4 sec.
You can say what you like, but you can`t change facts, you just make youself look like you don`t know what you are talking about
Oh btw, you ad headline says VXR500+ so whats a guy supposed to think eh?
I yeah, just looked at your ad again, I see what you have done and retract my VXR500 bitty. A good example of `caviet emptor` methinks
At Santa Pod, with other Forum members, on a wet, cold and slippy track I managed a consistent 117mph trap speed.
My 60ft time varied from 2.6 to 3.2 and my best ET was 13.4 sec.
You can say what you like, but you can`t change facts, you just make youself look like you don`t know what you are talking about
Oh btw, you ad headline says VXR500+ so whats a guy supposed to think eh?
I yeah, just looked at your ad again, I see what you have done and retract my VXR500 bitty. A good example of `caviet emptor` methinks
Edited by crisisjez on Friday 10th July 10:23
crisisjez said:
Tiger_kpt said:
Just look at the Japanese factory standard specification FI cars... they achieve much more than 100bhp per 1000cc straight out the factory - untouched!!! When uprated using similar parts (intake, intercooler, manifold, exhuast system, re-map - maybe slightly better FI unit) they easily achieve AT LEAST 200bhp per 1000cc - long before you have to start altering the fuelling or cam.
Being an engineer with a Motorsport and Automotive background - it isn't exactly rocket science.
Edited by Tiger_kpt on Friday 10th July 08:38
And being said ` engineer` I`m surprised you are comparing two totally different engine type`s, developed 30 years apart as part of your argument.
Jez... engines are engines. Different from one another, yes.
The basic principles are the same though. They are just over-glorified pumps afterall.
As they say, there really is no replacement for displacement. There isn't.
If you can't expect to get a minimum of 100bhp flywheel power out of each 1000cc of any petrol engine type with well chosen tuning (more so when going FI) - then it really is a lost cause.
crisisjez said:
At Santa Pod, with other Forum members, on a wet, cold and slippy track I managed a consistent 117mph trap speed.
So the whole of your vehicle spec was the same? Not just engine and transmission?
Suspension (coilovers), chassis (poly bushes), aftermarket wheels with wide road rubber?
crisisjez said:
I yeah, just looked at your ad again, I see what you have done and retract my VXR500 bitty. A good example of `caviet emptor` methinks
Edited by crisisjez on Friday 10th July 10:23
No Jez, I couldn't possibly advertise her any more clearly. Just try reading next time before you open your mouth.
No need for the attitude. You wouldn't do it to my face, so why behind a screen and keyboard?
Edited by Tiger_kpt on Friday 10th July 10:32
Tiger_kpt said:
crisisjez said:
At Santa Pod, with other Forum members, on a wet, cold and slippy track I managed a consistent 117mph trap speed.
So the whole of your vehicle spec was the same? Not just engine and transmission? Suspension (coilovers), chassis (poly bushes), aftermarket wheels with wide road rubber?
But my trap speeds were identical..............
Was Shakeys your first run on the strip?
come on guys is it really that important i thought we were all on here to get along together not bitch and moan about each otheres car....u guys are better than this next there will be world war three in a thread...this is like the 3rd subject in two days where the amonosity has shown unforunately....
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