Another Speed Six bites the dust it seems...
Discussion
Some may recall that after having the decats fitted I was noticing smoke from the exhaust under various driving conditions...
I'm due to take the Tamora to the Ring next Friday so thought it prudent to get it checked before I go. Dave at The Garage was unable to fit me in so I took the car to Elmwood today for the first time.
The smoking has been narrowed down to the drivers side pipe (and some from the breather filter from the oil tank today when parking up). Sadly according to Elmwood, it's oil and due to the symptoms (on startup every 2/3 times and under heavy load) it points to the valve stem seals
This gives me 3 options as I see it:
1: Get the top end rebuilt
2: Get the whole thing rebuilt at Power staying 3.6
3: Get the 4ltr upgrade at Power
Obviously first of all, I'd like to get a second opinion and have the engine assessed but it looks like another of the early Speed Six lumps has sucumb to inferior part quality, in my case lasting 23k miles (only 700 of which have been in my delicate ownership)
I'll post a video up later of the smoke.
I'm due to take the Tamora to the Ring next Friday so thought it prudent to get it checked before I go. Dave at The Garage was unable to fit me in so I took the car to Elmwood today for the first time.
The smoking has been narrowed down to the drivers side pipe (and some from the breather filter from the oil tank today when parking up). Sadly according to Elmwood, it's oil and due to the symptoms (on startup every 2/3 times and under heavy load) it points to the valve stem seals
This gives me 3 options as I see it:
1: Get the top end rebuilt
2: Get the whole thing rebuilt at Power staying 3.6
3: Get the 4ltr upgrade at Power
Obviously first of all, I'd like to get a second opinion and have the engine assessed but it looks like another of the early Speed Six lumps has sucumb to inferior part quality, in my case lasting 23k miles (only 700 of which have been in my delicate ownership)
I'll post a video up later of the smoke.
Sorry to hear your news especially so early into ownership
I elected to have my engine rebuilt when one of the cylinders was losing compression
having looked at all the options I opted for TVR Powers 4.3l upgrade and have never regretted it albeit my savings took a bit of a hammering
the diffence is like night and day lots of torque throughout the rev range and the engine just feels more robust
my advice would be to talk the options over with either dom at TVR Power or Jason at Sr8 six before making any final decision
I elected to have my engine rebuilt when one of the cylinders was losing compression
having looked at all the options I opted for TVR Powers 4.3l upgrade and have never regretted it albeit my savings took a bit of a hammering
the diffence is like night and day lots of torque throughout the rev range and the engine just feels more robust
my advice would be to talk the options over with either dom at TVR Power or Jason at Sr8 six before making any final decision
Having just become a father for a second time...and just buying a Bluemotion Polo for frugal commuting I'm slightly strapped shall we say 
I'll give Power etc a call on Monday and see what they say, it's a s
tter yes. But I think everyone should enter TVR (or any high performance sports car) ownership with eyes wide open to the potential pit falls. I still love the car and am looking forward to less excuses for driving it in anger.
Anyone got comments on the various kits and prices?
I just hope to st my Clio Cup is up to the task of tackling the Green Hell on Friday now!!
I'll give Power etc a call on Monday and see what they say, it's a s
tter yes. But I think everyone should enter TVR (or any high performance sports car) ownership with eyes wide open to the potential pit falls. I still love the car and am looking forward to less excuses for driving it in anger.Anyone got comments on the various kits and prices?
I just hope to s
t my Clio Cup is up to the task of tackling the Green Hell on Friday now!!I guess we've all found 1 or 2 outfits that we trust and stick with but I suspect there are a number of excellent options. My experience with TVR Power is that Dom knows the S6 to an almost unhealthy extent and it's an absolute pleasure to do business with him. If you don't want to spend big money and don't currently want to increase capacity, he'll not sell you a nut or bolt more than you need to get (reliably) back on the road. Hope that reads right!
If you do need a total replacement; consider also the Topcats Chevy LS option. It would be more pricey initially but you'd have most of a S6 to sell on afterwards.
I suspect it's not all quite as dark as you fear
If you do need a total replacement; consider also the Topcats Chevy LS option. It would be more pricey initially but you'd have most of a S6 to sell on afterwards.
I suspect it's not all quite as dark as you fear
Str8six is local(ish) ask Jason for a second opinion. He builds tasty engines too. If mine ever goes pop it will be entrusted to Dom or Jason to rebuild.
For me part of the DNA of TVR is the S6 engine. Replacing it with an LS or tinkering with it with the FFF is not required as the std lump can be re-buit and made good backed by long time milage warrenties.
Shep
shep1001 said:
tinkering with it with the FFF is not required
Tinkering, or development work? I'm fairly sure TVR didn't sell the 4.3 or 4.5 as standard, so what are TVR Power doing?It's all developmental work, even the rebuilds of the standard 3.6 or 4.0. And they are all the better for them, no matter which brand you nail your colours to.
I'll get a vid up when I can...
I also don't think it's a dead duck, I just worry that driving it will only degrade other components forcing me down the route of full rebuild.
I'll call the guys on Monday to discuss options, in a way I'm happy (if that makes sense) that I know there is a problem that can be solved and peace of mind will follow making TVR an almost painless proposition, relavitely speaking
When the top end went on my Clio is was highly amusing, just total failure with a light on the dash saying 'stop' hehe.
I drove it back at mostly full chat today and the car still gave me the full thrill factor, including a small boy jumping up and down with his mum saying 'tvr,tvr,tvr,tvr!'
I also don't think it's a dead duck, I just worry that driving it will only degrade other components forcing me down the route of full rebuild.
I'll call the guys on Monday to discuss options, in a way I'm happy (if that makes sense) that I know there is a problem that can be solved and peace of mind will follow making TVR an almost painless proposition, relavitely speaking
When the top end went on my Clio is was highly amusing, just total failure with a light on the dash saying 'stop' hehe.
I drove it back at mostly full chat today and the car still gave me the full thrill factor, including a small boy jumping up and down with his mum saying 'tvr,tvr,tvr,tvr!'
BCA said:
In your position, I would want a very very special 3.6 with FF's still (I dont see the design issue anymore) - as TVR made it, only better.
What mileage/ age is it out of interest?
It's a VERY well cared for 23k 02 plate. Never punished until over 70deg and oil heater for 2 hours before any outing etc.What mileage/ age is it out of interest?
nightSpirit said:
It's a VERY well cared for 23k 02 plate. Never punished until over 70deg and oil heater for 2 hours before any outing etc.
To get the valve stem seals changed will need the head to come off regardless (need to get the valve springs off). To get the head off will require the engine to come out. Once the engine is out with the head off a specialist will be able to give you a good assessment on the rest of the engine and you can make an informed decision at that stage..are you sure you haven't just overfilled the oil tank?Sorry to hear this.
May be a small ray of hope... have you /the garage checked the air filter? If it's soaked with oil as most end up being, it would suck some oil into the throttle bodies and engine, some of which may come through on start-up.
On one hand the smoke on start-up is an oil seal symptom on any engine as you say, but I found that if you keep the oil topped up right to top of dipstick, at high revs it froths up and deposits fair bit of oil on top of the air filter for a few seconds. That also causes the engine to pink!
So for several years I have run the level mid-way which avoids the issue, and also to be sure I've run the oil breather pipe into a little filter outside the airbox (see pic - before I tucked under airbox) and blanked the airbox entry off, obviously. Sometimes it still allows a little fil of oil out, when I've topped it up slightly above middle of dipstick.
Worth a quick check, running engine at middling revs without filter for a few mins, then restart and see if there's still smoke?
May be a small ray of hope... have you /the garage checked the air filter? If it's soaked with oil as most end up being, it would suck some oil into the throttle bodies and engine, some of which may come through on start-up.
On one hand the smoke on start-up is an oil seal symptom on any engine as you say, but I found that if you keep the oil topped up right to top of dipstick, at high revs it froths up and deposits fair bit of oil on top of the air filter for a few seconds. That also causes the engine to pink!
So for several years I have run the level mid-way which avoids the issue, and also to be sure I've run the oil breather pipe into a little filter outside the airbox (see pic - before I tucked under airbox) and blanked the airbox entry off, obviously. Sometimes it still allows a little fil of oil out, when I've topped it up slightly above middle of dipstick.
Worth a quick check, running engine at middling revs without filter for a few mins, then restart and see if there's still smoke?
BCA said:
In your position, I would want a very very special 3.6 with FF's still (I dont see the design issue anymore) - as TVR made it, only better.
What mileage/ age is it out of interest?
You know, that's how I'm coming to view things. I think what Power & Str8Six have done with the 4.3 and 4.5, and what RG might do with the gen 2 FFF, is great but come rebuild time I might be sorely tempted to just keep it 3.6 red rose spec as it rolled out the factory but rebuilt to very fine tolerances.What mileage/ age is it out of interest?
My personal experience with a "good" SP6 engine is that it is a very very very capable power plant - certainly for my needs and I think the lower torque high rev nature of the engine really suits the cars it was put into.
I know you're into racing your cars and no doubt the SP6 felt perhaps a bit timid after your Cerb, but have a look at the vids of my car at the first Fighting Torque and you'll see just how quick a SP6 can be - over a 1/4 mile nothing I raced could get near me. To put some numbers on it I ran 12.9s at Santa Pod with a 113mph terminal and I was sliding around all over the track on a cold damp day (Eagle F1's with standard pressures). On a piece of ordinary tarmac (same tyres and pressures) I ran 12.4s with a 108mph terminal - I was running out of tarmac and had to lift in 3rd gear. The first and only time I did a timed 0-60mph timed run I clocked 4.0s dead - again same tyres and pressures and with a 3.6 RR engine as it rolled out the factory (and did I mention this is with only 1 cylinder making good compression - the other 5 were and are still are well down on compression apparently !).
tail slide said:
Sorry to hear this.
May be a small ray of hope... have you /the garage checked the air filter? If it's soaked with oil as most end up being, it would suck some oil into the throttle bodies and engine, some of which may come through on start-up.
On one hand the smoke on start-up is an oil seal symptom on any engine as you say, but I found that if you keep the oil topped up right to top of dipstick, at high revs it froths up and deposits fair bit of oil on top of the air filter for a few seconds. That also causes the engine to pink!
So for several years I have run the level mid-way which avoids the issue, and also to be sure I've run the oil breather pipe into a little filter outside the airbox (see pic - before I tucked under airbox) and blanked the airbox entry off, obviously. Sometimes it still allows a little fil of oil out, when I've topped it up slightly above middle of dipstick.
Worth a quick check, running engine at middling revs without filter for a few mins, then restart and see if there's still smoke?
Thankyou Tail slide, sadly I did the breather filter mod some time ago so there's no chance of oil getting into the air filter. I've just watched the vid I took today and it does look like things are a bit knackered...May be a small ray of hope... have you /the garage checked the air filter? If it's soaked with oil as most end up being, it would suck some oil into the throttle bodies and engine, some of which may come through on start-up.
On one hand the smoke on start-up is an oil seal symptom on any engine as you say, but I found that if you keep the oil topped up right to top of dipstick, at high revs it froths up and deposits fair bit of oil on top of the air filter for a few seconds. That also causes the engine to pink!
So for several years I have run the level mid-way which avoids the issue, and also to be sure I've run the oil breather pipe into a little filter outside the airbox (see pic - before I tucked under airbox) and blanked the airbox entry off, obviously. Sometimes it still allows a little fil of oil out, when I've topped it up slightly above middle of dipstick.
Worth a quick check, running engine at middling revs without filter for a few mins, then restart and see if there's still smoke?
Sorry to hear that. I'd personally have a chat with Dom or jason about the options open to you, if budget is an issue like you say then nice as a 4.3/5 is I'd save the 3-4k and rebuild the 3.6 - it's a heck of a lot of money to add to an already expensive rebuild and not everyone has 8-10k lying around.
As already mentioned it may not even need a full rebuild but you'd need to speak with those mentioned to find out for certain. I had a bottom end rebuild by Power 2.5 years ago and the top end was stripped and inspected at the time and said to be in excellant condition. I'm now on 24k (15k later) and still with a perfect engine, no point going for a full rebuild when you don't actually need one unless you're upgrading.
As already mentioned it may not even need a full rebuild but you'd need to speak with those mentioned to find out for certain. I had a bottom end rebuild by Power 2.5 years ago and the top end was stripped and inspected at the time and said to be in excellant condition. I'm now on 24k (15k later) and still with a perfect engine, no point going for a full rebuild when you don't actually need one unless you're upgrading.
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