sagaris handling
Discussion
After over a year of owning my sag the only thing i miss about my old car [exige]is the handling.
Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
sibo99]After over a year of owning my sag the only thing i miss about my old car [exige said:
is the handling.
Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
Sag springs are significantly stiffer than a stock T350Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
Sag springs are 80N/mm front spring. 70 N/mm rear spring.
T350C 35 N/mm front 27.5N/mm
Info obtained from ex TVR chassis chap.
Nitrons seem to use the same/similar rates as a stock Sag, but they will be able to offer anything they or eibach make.
I would say going from the std bilsteins the choices are nitrons or other quality shockers but you pays your money etc as i think the std bilstein is a good shock for road use.
The rest is my waffle/thoughts findings on the T-Chassis cars (gathered from here there and other places)
The Sag uses different pickup points for the wishbones on the chassis to the earlier T-Cars which I think was to reduce what appears to be a falling wheel rate on the T-chassis's (spring rate visible to the wheel). IE as the suspension compresses, it causes the inclined shock angle relative to the wishbone to become more acute as the wishbone rises, which reduces the amount the shock moves as a given wheel movement (making the spring seem softer -lots of maths stuff skipped over there).
Note sure they entirely eliminated it as Sag owners seem to report bottoming over undulating roads/tracks ala the 'Ring .
Ps lowering the car may worsen( make more acute) the wishbone to shock angle if so this will contribute to lowering the effective wheel rate and lead to increased likelyhood of bottoming.
PPS the stock t350 rates are pants for the rear (far too soft for bumpy undulating roads) maybe ok for flat billiard smooth tarmac only and I think Eibach did offer a dual rate spring for the rear of T350/tamora (I have a pair, not yet fitted) as this used a 50Nmm main with 150Nmm helper spring, on full bump the spring rate probably went up instead of down so they may have something similar for the sag.
One issue of fitting stiffer springs to shocks not designed for them is the spring can overwhelm the shocks rebound damping so the car may pogo a little coming off bumps as the spring will extend faster and could oscilate if the damping gets too stressed out.
PS all this (bar spring rates ) is my own thoughts etc so speak to the experts if you are going to change something (ie nitron and /or eibach for starters)
sibo99]After over a year of owning my sag the only thing i miss about my old car [exige said:
is the handling.
Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
Standard Sag dampers/springs are very good for road use (on decent roads) remember the Sag is more track focussed than other TVRs so might feel too hardcore for some owners, I would get the standard dampers checked first(no oil leaks etc) and check set up, Been doing some searching on this on here but getting confused.
Are the sags standard springs different from the t350? just wondering
Would i get bennefit from gaz ,reds or nitrons fitted and proper set up. Only tracked once in sag so 99percent is on scottish bumpy roads.
The cheapest upgrade are Nitrons (I wouldn't even consider cheaper options) but they will feel stiffer again.
I live in a place with crap country roads. Had nitrons + geo + 19" wheels + other things done to help the handling, but in the end you live with crap roads, you get crap handling.
Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
SAGRIFF said:
remember the Sag is more track focussed than other TVRs so might feel too hardcore for some owners
It may be more track focused, but the Sagaris feels much less aggressive on the road - a T350 initially feels much sharper in terms of ride on the average 2 lane road. The Sagaris feels softer, and takes a different driving style.Targarama said:
SAGRIFF said:
remember the Sag is more track focussed than other TVRs so might feel too hardcore for some owners
It may be more track focused, but the Sagaris feels much less aggressive on the road - a T350 initially feels much sharper in terms of ride on the average 2 lane road. The Sagaris feels softer, and takes a different driving style.alex_gray255 said:
I live in a place with crap country roads. Had nitrons + geo + 19" wheels + other things done to help the handling, but in the end you live with crap roads, you get crap handling.
Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
Raise the car to a sensible height. Remove 19" wheels - they will not help on bumpy roads - fit 17's or 16's if you can (I think you can on a T350c, I am tempted to find a set of anthracite 16 spiders, will also try our 17's on it soon) and prepare to be astonished at the difference. TVR's are very sensitive to wheels/tyres/having the height to not sit on bump stops constantly.Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
Sagarii are more stiffly sprung, but ride better for two reasons; yes, the set up is better in terms of ride comfort due to damper/spring angle, but equally, the springs are better matched to the dampers, something TVR didnt often get right IMHO. There may also be something to the track widths... either way, there are ways of making T-car chassis'd cars even better for bumpy roads, it is just that most people do not want to compromise thier aesthetics.
Standard set up/dampers/springs are very good on the Sagaris and fine for tracks days, getting the ride height right is an issue as many standard Sags have been messed about with, you can run it low but you have to go very heavy on springs(800+) which will make it crap on our road but awesome on track.
Nitrons are a must if you are a track day bore and if track days are your thing I'd go 600f 475r (spring rates)
IMHO
Nitrons are a must if you are a track day bore and if track days are your thing I'd go 600f 475r (spring rates)
IMHO
BCA said:
SAGRIFF said:
Nitrons are a must if you are a track day bore and if track days are your thing I'd go 600f 475r (spring rates)
IMHO
Is that what you run on your Sagaris?? How harsh is it on the road? We've gone higher than Sagaris rates for the new Nitrons, but not that high?IMHO
SAGRIFF said:
Fine on decent roads and a big improvement on track, wouldn't go any higher for road use though.
Cool, we're starting with 450/400 as a base and going up from there, will see what the tolerable limit is on the T350. Shaun - I've not been to the 'ring since late 2009 unfortunately due to the insurance issue and a general lack of money (I spent three months of 2010 chilling on the west coast of america road trip!) I hope to do a 'Destination Nurburgring' event sometime next year though, either in the Mazda or possibly, just possibly, I'll break out the T350c for the Northloop lot - though it'll be lapped relatively slowly if so.
Worth looking into btw, NL discount usually too. BCA said:
Cool, we're starting with 450/400 as a base and going up from there, will see what the tolerable limit is on the T350.
Shaun - I've not been to the 'ring since late 2009 unfortunately due to the insurance issue and a general lack of money (I spent three months of 2010 chilling on the west coast of america road trip!) I hope to do a 'Destination Nurburgring' event sometime next year though, either in the Mazda or possibly, just possibly, I'll break out the T350c for the Northloop lot - though it'll be lapped relatively slowly if so. Worth looking into btw, NL discount usually too.
Ok,no probs, I'm sure we'll catch up there one day. Looking forward to next years Destination Nurburgring trips. Perhaps get some cracking laps with limited traffic. Anyway, sorted camera as it is on dash near windscreen now, did some filming at Silverstone on Monday evening & was like watching tele Shaun - I've not been to the 'ring since late 2009 unfortunately due to the insurance issue and a general lack of money (I spent three months of 2010 chilling on the west coast of america road trip!) I hope to do a 'Destination Nurburgring' event sometime next year though, either in the Mazda or possibly, just possibly, I'll break out the T350c for the Northloop lot - though it'll be lapped relatively slowly if so.
Worth looking into btw, NL discount usually too. Shaun
I went for 400 ibs front springs in an effort to improve the ride on these god dam aweful roads. As always these things are a comprise as my Sag tends to over steer as a result now. Will be going back to the standard spring rates when I get chance. Use Gaz golds which seem ok for fast road use as track use is infrequent.
alex_gray255 said:
I live in a place with crap country roads. Had nitrons + geo + 19" wheels + other things done to help the handling, but in the end you live with crap roads, you get crap handling.
Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
Btw - I'm having some aluminum back scuff plates made up for my Sag to give same sort of protection as the front. Aluminum to make them lighter than steel ones. If all works out ok, is anyone else interested in having some? I won't source them for you, but I can tell you where to get them from and price details once all sorted. Simplest solution I found was - fit a scuff plate to the nose to handle scraps - and drive slowly. If the road looks dipped, lumpy or has gouges - avoid the bit of road concerned as best as you can.
Scuff plates can be obtained from Jason at Str8Six. Easy to fit and just paint over them with black underseal paint or something like that.
Back scuff plates not available yet, but I believe he is developing then
I Have fitted a set of standard sagaris dampers & springs to my T350,, givers about 1" higher rear ride hight, This is just to try them as I have them from a freind who upgraded to racing nitrons with 1200lb springs front 1000lb rear
Handlig vastly improved going on track soon to realy push them , on bumpy roads not great as they are hard uncomfortable after a while, but I dont mind too much as its only a weekend car,
Handlig vastly improved going on track soon to realy push them , on bumpy roads not great as they are hard uncomfortable after a while, but I dont mind too much as its only a weekend car,
samantha said:
I Have fitted a set of standard sagaris dampers & springs to my T350,, givers about 1" higher rear ride hight, This is just to try them as I have them from a freind who upgraded to racing nitrons with 1200lb springs front 1000lb rear
Handlig vastly improved going on track soon to realy push them , on bumpy roads not great as they are hard uncomfortable after a while, but I dont mind too much as its only a weekend car,
Are you sure those spring ratings are correct? Per spring, not per axle?Handlig vastly improved going on track soon to realy push them , on bumpy roads not great as they are hard uncomfortable after a while, but I dont mind too much as its only a weekend car,
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