Tamora 4.3 Engine Upgrade
Discussion
Picked the car up from TVR Power on Saturday. A big Thanks to Dom and Jason and all the guys for getting the car back a week ahead of schedule and for keeping me up to speed while the work was being done. Just seeing the difference in the spec of the parts going into the engine compared with what came out, and the meticulous way it is put together gives a lot of confidence in the engine going forward. I can see why Dom is so confident in the future of the Speed 6 and why he is happy to back up his work as he does.
I've done about 200 miles this weekend, under running in conditions, so A and B roads and not taking her above 3500 rpm, so this is very much first impressions. Just to make clear, I was really happy with the 3.6 in the Tamora having done about 10k miles in 18 months ownership. To my mind it is the perfect 'beginners' TVR, in that it is so easy to drive 'normally'. Nothing too exciting happens under about 4000 rpm, so you have to be being silly to get yourself in trouble.
You can mooch about without having to be 'on it' all the time and if you do get a bit careless the car is very capable of getting you out of it due to the very predictable handling, great feedback and the quick rack. If you want to press on or take it on the track it is plenty quick enough and the way the 3.6 revs and revs is very addictive. A big reason I went for the 4.3 was that the extra warranty is value compared with a standard rebuild. The extra power and torque was a nice secondary bonus if you like.
First impressions: The car sounds very different. There is less 'sewing machine' from the engine bay. It is a much deeper exhaust note, a bit harsher, more of a rumble, less of a happy burble than the 3.6. Once out on the road it feels much, much faster. Even short changing at 3.5k the extra grunt is very noticeable. As mentioned I felt I had to work the 3.6 to get the best from it. This is a whole different kettle of salmon.
I got caught out by the aftermath of a heavy shower on Saturday evening. Coming through a roundabout on the A45 I had a car in front, so as I got clear of the roundabout I pulled out into the outside lane to come past. I was doing about 50mph in 4th, gave the throttle a little squeeze at about 2.5k rpm, the next thing I know I'm going sideways down the outside lane at 60 mph as the back end decides it wants to be where the front was. I was amazingly lucky not to end up in the armco. The rest of the journey felt like a game of Pass the Parcel at Osama's house. I guess this is what the AJP8 Cerbie guys are on about. How Paul Black keeps his Sag on the road when its wet I'll never know.
Thankfully yesterday and today were dry so I have been able to enjoy it rather than tiptoeing around. The TVR grin is back! The extra torque makes it more relaxing to drive now I'm a bit more used to it. Before where I'd be knocking it down a cog to overtake, it's just squeeze and go. The engine is very, very smooth.
As I said this is very much first impressions as I have another 800 miles or so before I can take the handbrake off. It has certainly changed the character of the car. The 3.6 Tam is a fantastic car, very easy to live with and I maybe had started to get a little complacent. With the 4.3 it is definitely edgier, more demanding in terms of concentration, especially in the wet. Saturday's incident has certainly sharpened me up and made me respect the car more, no bad thing.
I'll be getting a shocks and springs upgrade and a full geo set up when it goes back to Dom for the 1k service as I want to be sure the chassis can cope with the extra oomph. I'll also be getting out onto an airfield circuit with an instructor. Long term I know I'm going to love the extra performance, but I do feel I need to 'learn' the car all over again, it's that different. I'll post again when I get it run in and I've got a fuller picture.
I've done about 200 miles this weekend, under running in conditions, so A and B roads and not taking her above 3500 rpm, so this is very much first impressions. Just to make clear, I was really happy with the 3.6 in the Tamora having done about 10k miles in 18 months ownership. To my mind it is the perfect 'beginners' TVR, in that it is so easy to drive 'normally'. Nothing too exciting happens under about 4000 rpm, so you have to be being silly to get yourself in trouble.
You can mooch about without having to be 'on it' all the time and if you do get a bit careless the car is very capable of getting you out of it due to the very predictable handling, great feedback and the quick rack. If you want to press on or take it on the track it is plenty quick enough and the way the 3.6 revs and revs is very addictive. A big reason I went for the 4.3 was that the extra warranty is value compared with a standard rebuild. The extra power and torque was a nice secondary bonus if you like.
First impressions: The car sounds very different. There is less 'sewing machine' from the engine bay. It is a much deeper exhaust note, a bit harsher, more of a rumble, less of a happy burble than the 3.6. Once out on the road it feels much, much faster. Even short changing at 3.5k the extra grunt is very noticeable. As mentioned I felt I had to work the 3.6 to get the best from it. This is a whole different kettle of salmon.
I got caught out by the aftermath of a heavy shower on Saturday evening. Coming through a roundabout on the A45 I had a car in front, so as I got clear of the roundabout I pulled out into the outside lane to come past. I was doing about 50mph in 4th, gave the throttle a little squeeze at about 2.5k rpm, the next thing I know I'm going sideways down the outside lane at 60 mph as the back end decides it wants to be where the front was. I was amazingly lucky not to end up in the armco. The rest of the journey felt like a game of Pass the Parcel at Osama's house. I guess this is what the AJP8 Cerbie guys are on about. How Paul Black keeps his Sag on the road when its wet I'll never know.
Thankfully yesterday and today were dry so I have been able to enjoy it rather than tiptoeing around. The TVR grin is back! The extra torque makes it more relaxing to drive now I'm a bit more used to it. Before where I'd be knocking it down a cog to overtake, it's just squeeze and go. The engine is very, very smooth.
As I said this is very much first impressions as I have another 800 miles or so before I can take the handbrake off. It has certainly changed the character of the car. The 3.6 Tam is a fantastic car, very easy to live with and I maybe had started to get a little complacent. With the 4.3 it is definitely edgier, more demanding in terms of concentration, especially in the wet. Saturday's incident has certainly sharpened me up and made me respect the car more, no bad thing.
I'll be getting a shocks and springs upgrade and a full geo set up when it goes back to Dom for the 1k service as I want to be sure the chassis can cope with the extra oomph. I'll also be getting out onto an airfield circuit with an instructor. Long term I know I'm going to love the extra performance, but I do feel I need to 'learn' the car all over again, it's that different. I'll post again when I get it run in and I've got a fuller picture.
Thanks for the post Templedog, I have been thinking about refreshing my SP6 to either a 4.3, standard rebuild or an LS conversion for my SP6 Cerbera. I was concerned that the difference between a standard rebuild and a 4.3 was not big enough to justify the cost Am I correct in saying that it achieves about 350-360 BHP on a independent Dyno and also about 330 in torque. My SP6 makes 339 BHP and 312 torque in standard form.
You seem to suggest that there is a big difference and you have still to open it up, and if I part with almost £9k their better be a difference. Anyone else have a 4.3 with miles on it that would care to comment? Please tell me how you find it and if it was money well spent.
Keep us updated Templedog I am sure their are a few SP6 owners thinking the same as me.
You seem to suggest that there is a big difference and you have still to open it up, and if I part with almost £9k their better be a difference. Anyone else have a 4.3 with miles on it that would care to comment? Please tell me how you find it and if it was money well spent.
Keep us updated Templedog I am sure their are a few SP6 owners thinking the same as me.
Hi George,
That's a beautiful looking Cerb you have there. As I say I've only been pootling about up to this point, but I can honestly say it feels much more powerful than my 3.6 at the low end of the rev range, although to be fair the 3.6 didn't really get going till the higher end and gave the feeling it would just keep going. The 4.3 feels like a different engine, with much more low down grunt.
Not sure if you have been in a Tam, but it isn't a big car, with a much shorter wheelbase than the Cerb. It drives like a big go-kart. I'm sure once I get used to it it will be great, but at the moment it feels like a lot of motor for a small car.
I don't want to get into numbers as it has been done to death on here. Welcome to have a ride in it when I'm up to speed. Dom has done a number of 4.3 Tuscans which might be a better comparison.
Can't speak highly enough of Dom and the guys at Power. They look after my car like it was one of their own vehicles and I have no doubt that if I do get any issues they will be sorted without any hassle. If you are thinking about having an upgrade give Dom a call and have a chat. You will only get a straight answer to a straight question.
Buzz, Here are a couple of pics of the new components. The difference between the new crank and the old one is chalk and cheese. It's a shame to hide it in the engine.
New crank
Old crank
New conrod left, old conrods right.
Will keep you posted on how it goes. Just hoping for a nice dry and warm September and October so I can get it run in and mapped before the winter.
Rgds,
Sam
That's a beautiful looking Cerb you have there. As I say I've only been pootling about up to this point, but I can honestly say it feels much more powerful than my 3.6 at the low end of the rev range, although to be fair the 3.6 didn't really get going till the higher end and gave the feeling it would just keep going. The 4.3 feels like a different engine, with much more low down grunt.
Not sure if you have been in a Tam, but it isn't a big car, with a much shorter wheelbase than the Cerb. It drives like a big go-kart. I'm sure once I get used to it it will be great, but at the moment it feels like a lot of motor for a small car.
I don't want to get into numbers as it has been done to death on here. Welcome to have a ride in it when I'm up to speed. Dom has done a number of 4.3 Tuscans which might be a better comparison.
Can't speak highly enough of Dom and the guys at Power. They look after my car like it was one of their own vehicles and I have no doubt that if I do get any issues they will be sorted without any hassle. If you are thinking about having an upgrade give Dom a call and have a chat. You will only get a straight answer to a straight question.
Buzz, Here are a couple of pics of the new components. The difference between the new crank and the old one is chalk and cheese. It's a shame to hide it in the engine.
New crank
Old crank
New conrod left, old conrods right.
Will keep you posted on how it goes. Just hoping for a nice dry and warm September and October so I can get it run in and mapped before the winter.
Rgds,
Sam
Thanks Sam,
Yea let's not do figures, I am a bit mixed up at the moment, I would like a 4.3 I have only heard good things about it and the 5 year warranty is very appealing. I do like the SP6 and this is my second Sp6 having enjoyed a Tuscan before. I would I think like to keep the originality of the car but I do also find my self looking at the LS engines but looks like I could spend £12k plus on getting one of them fitted with no guarantee. I will give Dom a call soon but I do value the opinion of those who have had it installed and appreciate any feedback they may have before I make my move. I plan to keep the car for some time so I want to make the right choice engine wise and for value for my money.
George
Yea let's not do figures, I am a bit mixed up at the moment, I would like a 4.3 I have only heard good things about it and the 5 year warranty is very appealing. I do like the SP6 and this is my second Sp6 having enjoyed a Tuscan before. I would I think like to keep the originality of the car but I do also find my self looking at the LS engines but looks like I could spend £12k plus on getting one of them fitted with no guarantee. I will give Dom a call soon but I do value the opinion of those who have had it installed and appreciate any feedback they may have before I make my move. I plan to keep the car for some time so I want to make the right choice engine wise and for value for my money.
George
Sam just out of interest are the service schedules ridiculously short on these engines?? i.e. 6K miles as per standard service intervals?? Do you have to take it back to TVR Power or can it be serviced by any TVR specialist. I’m looking at doing a conversion myself with preferably the LS3 or going down the Speed Six route and go for either the FFF set up with the trick ECU/Variable Valve Timing set up from Racing Green who I had a really good chat with at TAG II but that was looking at around the same cost as an LS conversation, which I think someone some said he’d been quoted around £12K not sure where that price as come from but that’s way over the figs I've got but I guess doing it yourself does make it more cost effective especially if you know what you’re doing and know who to get the right info from.
The other option & preferred is to go down the LS3 route
and doing the conversion myself. The create engines are reasonably cheap not sure whether to go down the tremec or stick with T5 WRC Cosworth box that’s in the car. I would be looking at buying the bits ( engine mounts manifolds adaptors wiring etc)from either of the 2 TVR dealers who have done the conversion. I need to gather more tech info from users already running the LS3 conversion...things like splicing into the electrics sensors and the rest of that whole nightmare!
The only issue with the FFF kit: it’s unproven@ this time and has not got many miles on the system & unproven unlike Dom's. I guess its all about piece of mind hence the LS3…. mass produced,430bhp,reliability, long and cheap service schedules etc and will do a 100k without a sniff; well it will if you service it properly! + getting more horse power is cheap as chips.
Obviously they'll be a bit of pay back with the sale of the Speed Six and ancills etc. if I go down the LS3 route. Anyway this is just future project talk for the conversion.
I'm looking forward to hearing more about Sam’s car after it’s been ‘run in’ and he can start enjoying the up grade’s big power & flexibility. I know Dom’s engines are the 'quality standard' in the TVR fraternity and more importantly known by the guys who actually do work on there cars so it says a lot about the quality of TVR Power’s work...say no more. My mate Barry Ashcroft who’s car has just been sold to a very wealthy chap in the Fazzerland has nothing but praise for Dom and the boys after they built a Red Rose engine for him. I’ve only had a few dealings with TVR Power and that was when I bought the Nitron Damper/spring upgrade For the Tamora and they did a deal that kept the costs at the same price as Barry’s when he bought them in 2009! Result…Top guys
Buzz
The other option & preferred is to go down the LS3 route
and doing the conversion myself. The create engines are reasonably cheap not sure whether to go down the tremec or stick with T5 WRC Cosworth box that’s in the car. I would be looking at buying the bits ( engine mounts manifolds adaptors wiring etc)from either of the 2 TVR dealers who have done the conversion. I need to gather more tech info from users already running the LS3 conversion...things like splicing into the electrics sensors and the rest of that whole nightmare! The only issue with the FFF kit: it’s unproven@ this time and has not got many miles on the system & unproven unlike Dom's. I guess its all about piece of mind hence the LS3…. mass produced,430bhp,reliability, long and cheap service schedules etc and will do a 100k without a sniff; well it will if you service it properly! + getting more horse power is cheap as chips.
Obviously they'll be a bit of pay back with the sale of the Speed Six and ancills etc. if I go down the LS3 route. Anyway this is just future project talk for the conversion.
I'm looking forward to hearing more about Sam’s car after it’s been ‘run in’ and he can start enjoying the up grade’s big power & flexibility. I know Dom’s engines are the 'quality standard' in the TVR fraternity and more importantly known by the guys who actually do work on there cars so it says a lot about the quality of TVR Power’s work...say no more. My mate Barry Ashcroft who’s car has just been sold to a very wealthy chap in the Fazzerland has nothing but praise for Dom and the boys after they built a Red Rose engine for him. I’ve only had a few dealings with TVR Power and that was when I bought the Nitron Damper/spring upgrade For the Tamora and they did a deal that kept the costs at the same price as Barry’s when he bought them in 2009! Result…Top guys
Buzz
Edited by Buzz Billsberry on Thursday 1st September 11:56
Buzz Billsberry said:
I would be looking at buying the bits ( engine mounts manifolds adaptors wiring etc)from either of the 2 TVR dealers who have done the conversion.
Whilst this thread may be in danger of getting derailed, can you tell me if either of the two dealers (Topcats and Steve heath I assume?) have shown ay interest in going down this route? Last I heard was that they would prefer to do any conversion themselves rather than start selling "diy packages". Happy to hear otherwise though!Service intervals are the same as before, As far as I'm aware TVR power and a place in Belgium are the only places you can take it for a service to ensure you keep the warranty. Any TVR specialist can service it but you will loose the warranty. The engine is just the same mechanically as a 3.6 or 4.0. just better componants and a few mods.
LS3/7 will be a better option if you will be doing a lot of miles. Just depends how keen you are to keep the car original. As for me I'm struggling to get 3K miles a year with my Speed 6, so only 1 service a year for my Tamora.
LS3/7 will be a better option if you will be doing a lot of miles. Just depends how keen you are to keep the car original. As for me I'm struggling to get 3K miles a year with my Speed 6, so only 1 service a year for my Tamora.
Buzz,
Yup, servicing as before at 6k intervals. I'll let you get the full picture from Dom but I can tell you that if he does the servicing, the warranty he offers is pretty much unbeatable. I do about 6k per year,so service intervals are fine for me.
I would have a problem replacing the Speed Six, but that's just a personal thing and I wouldn't condemn anyone who decided to put an LS or whatever in their car if that's what they wanted. To me the S6 is part of the character of the Tamora. I thought long and hard about the upgrade, and I'm not 100% convinced it was the right thing to do if I'm honest, but I'm sure that will change once I get up to full speed and get used to it.
Really interested to see Dom's post about MBE earlier, will be very interesting to see how that pans out in the mid to long term.
I think one of the Dons is doing a Tam with an LS 3, so you might have a precedent if that's what you end up doing?
BR,
Sam
Yup, servicing as before at 6k intervals. I'll let you get the full picture from Dom but I can tell you that if he does the servicing, the warranty he offers is pretty much unbeatable. I do about 6k per year,so service intervals are fine for me.
I would have a problem replacing the Speed Six, but that's just a personal thing and I wouldn't condemn anyone who decided to put an LS or whatever in their car if that's what they wanted. To me the S6 is part of the character of the Tamora. I thought long and hard about the upgrade, and I'm not 100% convinced it was the right thing to do if I'm honest, but I'm sure that will change once I get up to full speed and get used to it.
Really interested to see Dom's post about MBE earlier, will be very interesting to see how that pans out in the mid to long term.
I think one of the Dons is doing a Tam with an LS 3, so you might have a precedent if that's what you end up doing?
BR,
Sam
Edited by Templedog on Thursday 1st September 21:36
I had my Tamora upgraded to the 4.3 a year ago and have covered about 9000 trouble free miles so far. The car is used as a daily driver and is serviced at Dreadnought in Callander. Dom is happy for them to do the work and the warranty is still valid. Service intervals are 6k as per the standard SP6.
From a driving perspective the engine responds with much more urgency across the entire rev range compared to my 3.6 and i recognise the 'tail out' tendancy wet or dry if you use the right foot injudiciously. Wheelspin in the dry in second gear is a grin inducing experience!!
Fuel consumption is on a par with the standard engine.
I would recommend the conversion if your 3.6 is on the way out.
Regards
Davie
From a driving perspective the engine responds with much more urgency across the entire rev range compared to my 3.6 and i recognise the 'tail out' tendancy wet or dry if you use the right foot injudiciously. Wheelspin in the dry in second gear is a grin inducing experience!!
Fuel consumption is on a par with the standard engine.
I would recommend the conversion if your 3.6 is on the way out.
Regards
Davie
brogenville said:
Whilst this thread may be in danger of getting derailed, can you tell me if either of the two dealers (Topcats and Steve heath I assume?) have shown ay interest in going down this route? Last I heard was that they would prefer to do any conversion themselves rather than start selling "diy packages". Happy to hear otherwise though!
Hi Rob the 2 company's are as follows Steve Heath Enginerring wwww.shengltd.com & www.sportmotive.com I've not had any conversations with them as yet as the project is still 18 months away but it would be worth the pair of us keeping in touch with any info that would be beneficial to the both of us. I'll drop you an email with my personal email if thats ok.I'll start a seperate thread regarding the LS3 for the Tamora rather than hi-jacking Sam's thread!! Sorry Sam for going slightly off topic!
Sam I understand you and other owners that want to keep the car original that doesn't bother me to be honest and I still might go down the S6 route yet. Its all about preference I guess! I love my V8's I'm in the process of selling my Westfield S8i which runs a 310 bhp TVR 450i and currently showing 405bhp per ton... nothing much touches it out there, but the Tamora is slower but much more practical option for the fast road touring I do in Europe etc. I've had it since April and done just of 6K miles in it already (2500 in Europe in July) I did the intermediate service on it over the weekend.... The draw of the V8 is just too much!! there's no subsitute for cubes and noise!
Buzz
Edited by Buzz Billsberry on Friday 2nd September 11:01
Hi Sam,
I put Gaz Golds on all four corners with 255/35/18 Goodyears. Brakes are standard.
I was thinking of raising the ride height slightly as the rear occasionally bottoms out but it has only been a problem on the more potholed roads so have put up with it so far.
The engine feels pretty much unburstable and gives you the confidence to, as Dom says, drive it like you stole it! You will enjoy it immensely when you have run it in.
Regards
Davie
I put Gaz Golds on all four corners with 255/35/18 Goodyears. Brakes are standard.
I was thinking of raising the ride height slightly as the rear occasionally bottoms out but it has only been a problem on the more potholed roads so have put up with it so far.
The engine feels pretty much unburstable and gives you the confidence to, as Dom says, drive it like you stole it! You will enjoy it immensely when you have run it in.
Regards
Davie
Getsis said:
Service intervals are the same as before, As far as I'm aware TVR power and a place in Belgium are the only places you can take it for a service to ensure you keep the warranty. Any TVR specialist can service it but you will loose the warranty. The engine is just the same mechanically as a 3.6 or 4.0. just better componants and a few mods.
IIRC the Power warranty will remain valid as long as the engine is serviced by a recognised and approved service centre. In other words, Dom will let you know if he thinks their good enough. natben said:
Thanks for the post Templedog, I have been thinking about refreshing my SP6 to either a 4.3, standard rebuild or an LS conversion for my SP6 Cerbera. I was concerned that the difference between a standard rebuild and a 4.3 was not big enough to justify the cost Am I correct in saying that it achieves about 350-360 BHP on a independent Dyno and also about 330 in torque. My SP6 makes 339 BHP and 312 torque in standard form.
You seem to suggest that there is a big difference and you have still to open it up, and if I part with almost £9k their better be a difference. Anyone else have a 4.3 with miles on it that would care to comment? Please tell me how you find it and if it was money well spent.
Keep us updated Templedog I am sure their are a few SP6 owners thinking the same as me.
I had my 3.6 and 4.2 (virtually same spec as 4.3) on the same dyno, similar conditions which showed an extra 73bhp at top end, 52bhp in middle.You seem to suggest that there is a big difference and you have still to open it up, and if I part with almost £9k their better be a difference. Anyone else have a 4.3 with miles on it that would care to comment? Please tell me how you find it and if it was money well spent.
Keep us updated Templedog I am sure their are a few SP6 owners thinking the same as me.
But more importantly for the real world how-does-it-feel difference you were asking about for overtaking etc, my Performance Box repeatedly recorded 2.95 secs from 80-100mph in 3rd for the 3.6, which fell to 2.0 secs for the 4.2.
That feels a lot faster, I can assure you
The only other difference was that the gearing in the diff was also lower for the 4.2, which may have accounted for the odd tenth of a second.
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