Chosing a fun car. Tamora - cheaper than a T350C
Discussion
It has been 18 months since I sold my lightweight track-focused sports car, and I am getting restless.
I am looking for a fun 2nd car that spends much of its time in the garage, coming out for runs on nice days / weekends, one or 2 trackdays / year, a trip onto the continent and maybe a Ring trip every couple of years.
I spent a long time considering an E46 M3 or Nissan 350Z. Both nice cars and capable on/off track. I am a little concerned about fitting them (width constraint) into my single garage. My Saab 9000 fitted (just), which isn't a small car. I get the impression the TVRs will be narrower.
Good examples of the T350C seem above my budget, but there are nice-looking Tamoras for ~ £15k.
Opinion seems to be that the 350C is the better-looking car, but that doesn't bother me. I am more interested in the driving.
I wouldn't normally go for convertibles on the basis of:
1) Heavier than coupe version
2) Less stiff than coupe version
3) More expensive than coupe version
4) More wind noise and risk of leaks
5) Less boot space (need an ok boot for road trips)
From what I have read, the first 3 points don't seem that relevant to the Tamora. Top Gear clip from years ago seemed to rate the handling. Points 4 and 5 might be a factor.
Can anybody comment on the above points? Also, what is the mpg like? I know you don't buy a car like this for economy, but if it combines a small tank with unusually poor mpg, it might be a pain on longer trips.
Thanks
I am looking for a fun 2nd car that spends much of its time in the garage, coming out for runs on nice days / weekends, one or 2 trackdays / year, a trip onto the continent and maybe a Ring trip every couple of years.
I spent a long time considering an E46 M3 or Nissan 350Z. Both nice cars and capable on/off track. I am a little concerned about fitting them (width constraint) into my single garage. My Saab 9000 fitted (just), which isn't a small car. I get the impression the TVRs will be narrower.
Good examples of the T350C seem above my budget, but there are nice-looking Tamoras for ~ £15k.
Opinion seems to be that the 350C is the better-looking car, but that doesn't bother me. I am more interested in the driving.
I wouldn't normally go for convertibles on the basis of:
1) Heavier than coupe version
2) Less stiff than coupe version
3) More expensive than coupe version
4) More wind noise and risk of leaks
5) Less boot space (need an ok boot for road trips)
From what I have read, the first 3 points don't seem that relevant to the Tamora. Top Gear clip from years ago seemed to rate the handling. Points 4 and 5 might be a factor.
Can anybody comment on the above points? Also, what is the mpg like? I know you don't buy a car like this for economy, but if it combines a small tank with unusually poor mpg, it might be a pain on longer trips.
Thanks
You wouldn´t notice any noises but the exhaust in a Tam, if properly equipped :-).
From my experince the roof is not prone to leaking. If it does, it is fixable.
Boot space is quite good for a small roadster, you would be surprised.
Just go and look at some out there and then buy. You will not regret it.
I don´t think they will get any cheaper in the future. It seems to be the right time to dig into TVR ownership.
Björn.
From my experince the roof is not prone to leaking. If it does, it is fixable.
Boot space is quite good for a small roadster, you would be surprised.
Just go and look at some out there and then buy. You will not regret it.
I don´t think they will get any cheaper in the future. It seems to be the right time to dig into TVR ownership.
Björn.
They are the most under-rated TVR. Slightly less visually attractive to many means prices are lower. Slightly less roll-over protection if you're a serious track-day addict, but you could always fit a rear roll bar.
22-28mpg depending on how you drive it. Higher figures easily achievable on a motorway cruise. 52 Litres or so in the tank, but you won't want to run it empty so 11 gallons x 25mpg = 275 miles per tank to be safe.
22-28mpg depending on how you drive it. Higher figures easily achievable on a motorway cruise. 52 Litres or so in the tank, but you won't want to run it empty so 11 gallons x 25mpg = 275 miles per tank to be safe.
The Tamora is definitley lighter than the T350 by around 100 kilos or so owing to the lack of roll cage. It does seem to make a difference. Its just as stiff as the body panels are not stressed and they share the same chassis.
I would say with the roof up i get more wind noise in the T350 than the Tamora strangely. The rubber trim falling off on the edges of the roof at the top of the windows does drive me nuts though.
The boot space is better in the T350 but it is shallow. The Tamora's boot is narrower but quite deep and there is still space even with the roof in but not much. The added benefit of the Tamora's boot is that nothing is on display whereas anything can be seen through the glass of the T350. Sure it has the luggage cover; but this is useless if the boot is full with stuff for long trips. From a luggage point of view only the T350 can take much more.
Tamoras tank is bigger than the T350s too. I believe 63 litres compared to 56 but i might be wrong. On both i get an average of 22-25mpg. Have got 31mpg out the T350 on the drive to Spa cruising and about 8mpg driving on track. Its also much easier and quicker to fill a Tamora as it has a regular fuel filler nozzle.
Tamora is also narrower and shorter than the T350 for fitting in your garage. Having said all that i prefer my T350!
I would say with the roof up i get more wind noise in the T350 than the Tamora strangely. The rubber trim falling off on the edges of the roof at the top of the windows does drive me nuts though.
The boot space is better in the T350 but it is shallow. The Tamora's boot is narrower but quite deep and there is still space even with the roof in but not much. The added benefit of the Tamora's boot is that nothing is on display whereas anything can be seen through the glass of the T350. Sure it has the luggage cover; but this is useless if the boot is full with stuff for long trips. From a luggage point of view only the T350 can take much more.
Tamoras tank is bigger than the T350s too. I believe 63 litres compared to 56 but i might be wrong. On both i get an average of 22-25mpg. Have got 31mpg out the T350 on the drive to Spa cruising and about 8mpg driving on track. Its also much easier and quicker to fill a Tamora as it has a regular fuel filler nozzle.
Tamora is also narrower and shorter than the T350 for fitting in your garage. Having said all that i prefer my T350!
Edited by rico23 on Monday 10th October 14:34
Thanks for the replies, very informative.
So far:
Wind noise and leaks not a big issue (I am not expecting Lexus quiet...)
Decent boot space for a sports car, but reduced with roof panel in. I guess I need to take a look.
Would be nice if it could fit soft bags for a week away for 2. Is there any space behind the seats for things? I guess with the rear roof section folded down there is no space in the back, and that is where a 350C is better... Taking 2 x helmets on a Ring trip takes up space.
Missing a roll-cage. I only do one track event / year, and am fairly cautious (or have I just been lucky?), so I will take the risk. Other threads indicate windscreen hoop is strong when the car is rolled.
No issues with chassis stiffness despite being a convertible, and compact size for easier garage fitting (will do some scientific checks...).
31 mpg for steady driving, that sounds good to me.
Price - Not likely to lose too many £ if I look after it well.
Running costs - I can cope with spending decent £ to keep it in good shape, I am not expecting Toyota Corolla costs.
But if I spend £15k on a car, and it needs a £6k engine rebuild the next week, that would be an issue. Most of the cars on PH have not had TVR Power engine rebuilds with guarantees, so I guess it comes down to checking the service history and, if possible, that the owner has been sympathetic about warm-up. And luck.
Any more information is welcome
So far:
Wind noise and leaks not a big issue (I am not expecting Lexus quiet...)
Decent boot space for a sports car, but reduced with roof panel in. I guess I need to take a look.
Would be nice if it could fit soft bags for a week away for 2. Is there any space behind the seats for things? I guess with the rear roof section folded down there is no space in the back, and that is where a 350C is better... Taking 2 x helmets on a Ring trip takes up space.
Missing a roll-cage. I only do one track event / year, and am fairly cautious (or have I just been lucky?), so I will take the risk. Other threads indicate windscreen hoop is strong when the car is rolled.
No issues with chassis stiffness despite being a convertible, and compact size for easier garage fitting (will do some scientific checks...).
31 mpg for steady driving, that sounds good to me.
Price - Not likely to lose too many £ if I look after it well.
Running costs - I can cope with spending decent £ to keep it in good shape, I am not expecting Toyota Corolla costs.
But if I spend £15k on a car, and it needs a £6k engine rebuild the next week, that would be an issue. Most of the cars on PH have not had TVR Power engine rebuilds with guarantees, so I guess it comes down to checking the service history and, if possible, that the owner has been sympathetic about warm-up. And luck.
Any more information is welcome
There is a useful shelf space behind the seats which is nearly a foot wide from back of seat to boot, perfect for a couple of helmets. You could probably fit two soft bags (sports holdall type) on the shelf in the boot in front of the roof.
As well as the windscreen hoop being strong the seat top should be taller than your head (unless your very tall) and that would also provide roll-over protection.
With the engine rebuilds the general rule appears to be the later the model the better but if it has been used and serviced regularly and warmed up correctly don't let the lack of a rebuild put you off.
As well as the windscreen hoop being strong the seat top should be taller than your head (unless your very tall) and that would also provide roll-over protection.
With the engine rebuilds the general rule appears to be the later the model the better but if it has been used and serviced regularly and warmed up correctly don't let the lack of a rebuild put you off.
Extra space to squash things in sounds good. I am 5'7, and my wife is 5'4 so the seats aren't too far back and there should be space behind.
My previous car that I tracked was a Saab 9000 - no worries about storage there, and nice to be able to get 4 wheels with tyres in the boot as well as tools, bags etc.
But this car is about learning a new way of driving - powerful, RWD, light, and no driver aids. I had become bored of powerful, heavy, FWD and unsporting suspension (even if it did surprise a few sports cars).
My previous car that I tracked was a Saab 9000 - no worries about storage there, and nice to be able to get 4 wheels with tyres in the boot as well as tools, bags etc.
But this car is about learning a new way of driving - powerful, RWD, light, and no driver aids. I had become bored of powerful, heavy, FWD and unsporting suspension (even if it did surprise a few sports cars).
Boot space - As said, fair bit of space on the 'parcel shelf' even with the roof collapsed and seats right back (I am 6' 2"). As for the boot its self, with the roof panel stowed, I can get everything in, that me and the wife need for a week away (usually including walking boots etc). Packing stuff into the nooks and indeed crannies is the key. Small soft bags of stuff is ideal, plus one larger one on the parcel shelf.
To give you an idea, with the roof stowed, I can get a set of golf clubs and a trolley (wheels taken off) in the boot fairly comfortably.
To give you an idea, with the roof stowed, I can get a set of golf clubs and a trolley (wheels taken off) in the boot fairly comfortably.
Quentin1 said:
You wouldn´t notice any noises but the exhaust in a Tam, if properly equipped :-).
From my experince the roof is not prone to leaking. If it does, it is fixable.
Boot space is quite good for a small roadster, you would be surprised.
Just go and look at some out there and then buy. You will not regret it.
I don´t think they will get any cheaper in the future. It seems to be the right time to dig into TVR ownership.
Björn.
Agree with all of this except the comment about the roof: From my experince the roof is not prone to leaking. If it does, it is fixable.
Boot space is quite good for a small roadster, you would be surprised.
Just go and look at some out there and then buy. You will not regret it.
I don´t think they will get any cheaper in the future. It seems to be the right time to dig into TVR ownership.
Björn.
Mine was not so much prone to leaking as akin to a colander. The car was under warranty and remained unfixed despite the best attentions of the official dealer. The end result was that I sold the car.
It was light, quick, beautiful and sounded fantastic. But it leaked.
My T350c(s) past and present only leak in extreme conditions....
I think all your questions have already been answered anyway, but here's my view after just over a year of ownership:
The Tam is said to be a little lighter than the T350
They are also as you pointed out, cheaper year for year. (And the roof comes off
)
If you have a decent sports exhaust you won't be worrying about wind noise, not that it that bad anyway.
I've been caught in torrential downpours a couple of times, and remained completely dry. No leaks, not even one drip.
There is quite a lot of space on the shelf behind the seats. We put a rolled up double king size duvet there earlier this year when going away. The boot is a decent size but an odd shape. You can get a lot in in using all the nooks and crannies. When the roof is off, it fits in the boot almost vertically so splits it in two which compromises space a little, but roof on you can get loads in there. As someone else said, it is completely out of view unlike the T350.
You need to go and drive one
And did I mention the roof comes off
The Tam is said to be a little lighter than the T350
They are also as you pointed out, cheaper year for year. (And the roof comes off
)If you have a decent sports exhaust you won't be worrying about wind noise, not that it that bad anyway.
I've been caught in torrential downpours a couple of times, and remained completely dry. No leaks, not even one drip.
There is quite a lot of space on the shelf behind the seats. We put a rolled up double king size duvet there earlier this year when going away. The boot is a decent size but an odd shape. You can get a lot in in using all the nooks and crannies. When the roof is off, it fits in the boot almost vertically so splits it in two which compromises space a little, but roof on you can get loads in there. As someone else said, it is completely out of view unlike the T350.
You need to go and drive one
And did I mention the roof comes off
A dry Tam is a great car.
If you are looking at one check the seat anchorage and footwells under the carpet for corrosion. Five or more years on, if these areas are as dry as a bone then you'll be fine.
Also check out other ingress issues: e.g.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
A well nurtured (esp. red rose ) Tam is going to have one of the best BHP/kg ratios around.
I was quoted a 125 kg premium for a regular T350c over a Tam. The lightweights are, well, lighter!
I hope you find what you are looking for and thoroughly enjoy it.
If you are looking at one check the seat anchorage and footwells under the carpet for corrosion. Five or more years on, if these areas are as dry as a bone then you'll be fine.
Also check out other ingress issues: e.g.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
A well nurtured (esp. red rose ) Tam is going to have one of the best BHP/kg ratios around.
I was quoted a 125 kg premium for a regular T350c over a Tam. The lightweights are, well, lighter!
I hope you find what you are looking for and thoroughly enjoy it.
Anyone ever put a Tamora on a weighbridge???
Because I am telling you now, there is no way they're 100kilos lighter, that is a very large amount of weight, and I can't see where you could save that.
For reference, a T350c with full leather, aircon, misc crap in the rear cubby holes, full carpets including front mats and 40-45litres (I cant remember the exact figure) of fuel is 1140kilos according to MIRA.
Tamoras are great cars though, slightly lighter, but the key to them is that they are better set up for B-road fun than any other TVR out of the factory. I believe slightly softer springs/ a better damping balance is key here.
Because I am telling you now, there is no way they're 100kilos lighter, that is a very large amount of weight, and I can't see where you could save that.
For reference, a T350c with full leather, aircon, misc crap in the rear cubby holes, full carpets including front mats and 40-45litres (I cant remember the exact figure) of fuel is 1140kilos according to MIRA.
Tamoras are great cars though, slightly lighter, but the key to them is that they are better set up for B-road fun than any other TVR out of the factory. I believe slightly softer springs/ a better damping balance is key here.
Thanks for the replies.
I would rather have a dry car - I guess if I am buying privately or from trade I can ask about it and get an answer, and do any checks for damp / corrosion.
The car will be garaged and generally for good weather driving, but some of my road trips have gone through heavy storms so I don;t want any nasty surprises.
I need to take a look at a car, and if that is ok, maybe a test drive. The ones for sale closest to me (Worcester) are not the nicest advertised, but I can take a look and see what the boot space / fit are like.
Very few for sale with engine rebuilds. Of 17 identified as for sale and roughly suitable, no rebuilds.
Only a few examples with air-con, did most buyers avoid the extra cost / weight of this? Does it work well?
I know the roof comes off, but I am a big fan of air-con, and it has its uses in an open topped car (mainly when the top is closed due to it being too sunny, or for a long day behind the wheel on the motorway in hot weather.
I would rather have a dry car - I guess if I am buying privately or from trade I can ask about it and get an answer, and do any checks for damp / corrosion.
The car will be garaged and generally for good weather driving, but some of my road trips have gone through heavy storms so I don;t want any nasty surprises.
I need to take a look at a car, and if that is ok, maybe a test drive. The ones for sale closest to me (Worcester) are not the nicest advertised, but I can take a look and see what the boot space / fit are like.
Very few for sale with engine rebuilds. Of 17 identified as for sale and roughly suitable, no rebuilds.
Only a few examples with air-con, did most buyers avoid the extra cost / weight of this? Does it work well?
I know the roof comes off, but I am a big fan of air-con, and it has its uses in an open topped car (mainly when the top is closed due to it being too sunny, or for a long day behind the wheel on the motorway in hot weather.
Sevenman said:
I know the roof comes off, but I am a big fan of air-con, and it has its uses in an open topped car (mainly when the top is closed due to it being too sunny, or for a long day behind the wheel on the motorway in hot weather.
IMHO air-con is essential in the T350/Tams due to the heatsoak from the Cats and transmission tunnel. Yes, you can have the roof off but lets be honest - this isn't really feasible 100% of the time. Plus the fact on really hot days it's often nicer to have the roof on and air-con running. This is also the case on those hot but wet days. As mentioned though this is my personal opinion and no doubt others will disagree, I'd never buy without though.I'm a fan of air con too and always had it on previous convertibles but haven't missed it on the Tamora. Str8six offer having it retro-fitted to factory spec. I guess its because i always take the roof off but with it on it can get hot in there.
I guess original owners didn't see the point of the extra weight and cost with a convertible.
My T350 has air con though and i wouldn't want to be without it in there on long trips. I've read some negative comments about the effectiveness of it anyway but i've found it quite good. Guess my expectations were not particularly high!
I guess original owners didn't see the point of the extra weight and cost with a convertible.
My T350 has air con though and i wouldn't want to be without it in there on long trips. I've read some negative comments about the effectiveness of it anyway but i've found it quite good. Guess my expectations were not particularly high!
my three pence worth.
It'll fit fine into a standard single garage.
I've found the fuel consumption far less worrying than my 4.2 Cerb. It does very reasonable mpg for the performance.
I've never needed to use air con. Always have the roof off where possible. 90% of the time I use it and it's a real blast when you do Terrific rumble and what's it's all about for me really. Means you drive slower and don't get speeding fines .
Wouldn't say mines been made for the B roads really. It's far too jittery on them. Most certainly been produced for going around corners on nice flat surfaces which it does extremely well. Felt very good at Snetterton a while back on a parade lap.
Wouldn't say water tightness has been 100% on mine. Odd issues on the door panels occasionally but nothing serious.
Would have been nice to have had a sun visor but there we are.
Exceeded all expectations so far.
It'll fit fine into a standard single garage.
I've found the fuel consumption far less worrying than my 4.2 Cerb. It does very reasonable mpg for the performance.
I've never needed to use air con. Always have the roof off where possible. 90% of the time I use it and it's a real blast when you do
Terrific rumble and what's it's all about for me really. Means you drive slower and don't get speeding fines .Wouldn't say mines been made for the B roads really. It's far too jittery on them. Most certainly been produced for going around corners on nice flat surfaces which it does extremely well. Felt very good at Snetterton a while back on a parade lap.
Wouldn't say water tightness has been 100% on mine. Odd issues on the door panels occasionally but nothing serious.
Would have been nice to have had a sun visor but there we are.
Exceeded all expectations so far.
Mr M said:
my three pence worth.
It'll fit fine into a standard single garage.
I've found the fuel consumption far less worrying than my 4.2 Cerb. It does very reasonable mpg for the performance.
I've never needed to use air con. Always have the roof off where possible. 90% of the time I use it and it's a real blast when you do Terrific rumble and what's it's all about for me really. Means you drive slower and don't get speeding fines .
Wouldn't say mines been made for the B roads really. It's far too jittery on them. Most certainly been produced for going around corners on nice flat surfaces which it does extremely well. Felt very good at Snetterton a while back on a parade lap.
Wouldn't say water tightness has been 100% on mine. Odd issues on the door panels occasionally but nothing serious.
Would have been nice to have had a sun visor but there we are.
Exceeded all expectations so far.
Agree mine is very jittery on B roads too with standard suspension and tyres.It'll fit fine into a standard single garage.
I've found the fuel consumption far less worrying than my 4.2 Cerb. It does very reasonable mpg for the performance.
I've never needed to use air con. Always have the roof off where possible. 90% of the time I use it and it's a real blast when you do
Terrific rumble and what's it's all about for me really. Means you drive slower and don't get speeding fines .Wouldn't say mines been made for the B roads really. It's far too jittery on them. Most certainly been produced for going around corners on nice flat surfaces which it does extremely well. Felt very good at Snetterton a while back on a parade lap.
Wouldn't say water tightness has been 100% on mine. Odd issues on the door panels occasionally but nothing serious.
Would have been nice to have had a sun visor but there we are.
Exceeded all expectations so far.
mine was jittery but usable ,guys at Track v road said I quote " your Tam had worst set up of any we have seen" so I cannot wait to get it back and try it out now its all sorted. I had more leaks in my T350t than in my Tam its been bone dry even in monsoon rain. I dont have aircon never felt i needed it either.There also seems to be less rebuilds on tams than other S6 units,most TVR dealers back this up but no one knows why.Another Tvr myth?
go and enjoy the most under-rated TVR of all
go and enjoy the most under-rated TVR of all
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