Suspension Setup at Centre of Gravity + Bruntingthorpe
Discussion
Hi,
I thought I would post a recent experience I had with a suspension setup company called Centre of Gravity near Atherstone. One of my shocks started to leak recently and I decided to replace the lot. I looked at all the options and decided on the 600 Series Protech Double Adjustable Shocks. The reason for this, was based on experience from friends who track their cars and use them on a regular basis, plus a few on here race with the Protechs. The price was very competitive, the service great and the quality of the components of a high standard compared to Nitrons etc. CofG's preference is Billstein, although they fit and setup any shocks and were amazed at the build quality, having setup many of them by now.
I fitted them myself with a mate and had an initial Geo and Corner Weighting prior to a trip to Le Mans, but wasn't particularly happy with things on the b roads, e.g. ride height (lots of grounding out) and it felt skittish on the back roads. Several mates, who have Nobles and Ultimas, including Tuxman (Noble), who does thousands of miles a year on track and his brother Tang Soo Tim had both been to CofG, so it made sense to spend a little bit more and do the same. This is all they do, so you would hope they know a thing or too :P You are there all day, so don't expect a typical geo, which takes a couple of hours, or sometimes less.
Arrival at CofG, cup of tea, access to Wifi etc and greeted by this doggy
The first thing Chris and Pete was run through of my thoughts of the car . They wanted to know my perception, even if I couldn't communicate things in tech speak, just how it made me feel. Following that Chris did an initial inspection, checking tyre pressures, temperatures etc, before taking me out for a spin in the car.
This was interesting... We did the usual motoring, checking for movement in the car on acceleration, different camber of road, under breaking, over cobbled streets, almost every road condition on the route we were on, Then we did some sessions round roundabouts and tight bends. This was where I began to understand the potential of the car, with a relatively small roundabout ahead, we proceeded to drive round it at 20, 21, 22 to 28 mph, with the back end beginning to let go. God these cars can grip and turn tightly. However it also highlighted that the backend was breaking away and effectively, only 3 of the wheels were planted on the road correctly. Something to work on and dial in. Following that we then did some b road driving, and his verdict was not great. 60MPH and it was indeed jittery, as his kidneys got a buffeting. It's difficult as first time owner of a TVR. You don't know what a high performance sports car should feel like on a B road. Should it feel like that?. Chris has driven many sports cars, including TVR's and has a lot of experience (professionally trained), and confidently, indicated we can dial all of this out and have you driving along here at much higher speeds.
So, back to the CofG centre we go for some Chassis Tuning
Minimising Weight Transfer
Minimising bump-steer
Minimising roll-steer
Centre of gravity re-location
Corner weight distribution (cross weight ratios)
Roll-centre adjustment
Ride height adjustment
4 wheel alignment geometry adjustment (camber, castor and toe)
Tyre pyrometry and tyre pressure monitoring
At each stage they revisit some of the elements again and again, as they alter other aspects of the car. This took from 10am, till about 6PM with a few breaks in between. I've had mates leave there much later, as the car will not be released until they are satisfied e.g. changing bushes, or setting up to the millimetre.
Here are some examples of what they were up to, some before shots for example checking the performance of each shock on their vibration machine, which the car sits on...it goes on and on
Car setup for the first drive out. Chris drove the route again and proudly said, she's a pussy cat now. He changed a few settings half way through the trip, upping the Bump a little and rebound as it felt a little floaty in places. Fortunately, the shocks are easy to get to under the car. Then it was my turn. Your not going home until your satisfied and tell me everything you feel. Having spent a day with him it was easy to talk about my thoughts. I knew more about the car now, as throughout the day, he wanted to ensure I understood what they were doing and why. We could then tweak further. We got to the bumpy roads, and god what a difference, it felt planted and although he said, lets do the roads at 60mph again, i looked down and it might have been quicker, but of course I can't confirm that :P There was even a point, when he announced we had air there, as it landed, planted and firm.
Chris also commented on my driving, and indicated that with the new setup, we needed to build my confidence up again, so showed me a few things to put in place for the future, power in the corners to use the suspension to my advantage, breaking etc. I may have drifted off a roundabout, which was great, with him saying right, lets focus on the next corner, and me saying, wait a minute, i'm still in a moment back there Now I think i'm a pretty competent driver, however you don't become a driving king by buying a flash sports car, but we will come to that later.
So, after an amazing drive home, I would certainly recommend them. http://www.centregravity.co.uk
So, on to Bruntingthorpe Charity Day...
Bruntingthorpe was interesting...First time on a track type environment and a little nervous. The car couldn't have felt better. After a few sighting laps, we were off with a first passenger...Taking it easy to begin with, not the slowest, but many drivers out there that new where to push their cars. At the end of the lap, my first 360 degree spin, no damage as there is so much run off. I came quick into a corner, didn't break as hard as I should have (learning how to use the car in a new environment). Pull into the pits, little friendly warning ("is the car better than the driver sir") and back out again, just concentrating on what I was doing, not others...after 7-8 more laps, i'm feeling more confident and pushing harder
I decided to benchmark myself against two drivers who really know their cars, Rich in his Tuscan and a chap in a Black Sag, both who do lots of track days. The Sag has a similar feeling to the T350. Lots of muttered swearing and an amazed look on my face, these cars are astounding when pushed. The grip is insane and the movement round corners breathtaking. This was probably the best thing I could have done after taking my car out, as it gave me a clear appreciation of the potential, in the hands of an experienced driver. Going out with Rich in his 4.3 Tuscan was fantastic, god that engine pulled and over the course of the day, he did over 80 laps in his car, only stopping to put more fuel in. Who says TVR's aren't reliable!
So, the car is completely setup now, it feels amazing, with options for the track, which I can dial in myself. Unfortunately, the driver is not setup for track or at the level where I feel confident pushing the car close to it's limits like Rich and Mr Sag. Importantly if something does happen, I'm not 100% confident I could recover effectively. So i've booked myself in for a Track/Performance Car driver training day at Millbrook, with a few friends. My car won't be doing many track days, as I want to look after her, but it's good to know i'm on a journey to realising the potential of both her and me.
Hopefully, some of you will gain value from this and are in a similar position to me.
I thought I would post a recent experience I had with a suspension setup company called Centre of Gravity near Atherstone. One of my shocks started to leak recently and I decided to replace the lot. I looked at all the options and decided on the 600 Series Protech Double Adjustable Shocks. The reason for this, was based on experience from friends who track their cars and use them on a regular basis, plus a few on here race with the Protechs. The price was very competitive, the service great and the quality of the components of a high standard compared to Nitrons etc. CofG's preference is Billstein, although they fit and setup any shocks and were amazed at the build quality, having setup many of them by now.
I fitted them myself with a mate and had an initial Geo and Corner Weighting prior to a trip to Le Mans, but wasn't particularly happy with things on the b roads, e.g. ride height (lots of grounding out) and it felt skittish on the back roads. Several mates, who have Nobles and Ultimas, including Tuxman (Noble), who does thousands of miles a year on track and his brother Tang Soo Tim had both been to CofG, so it made sense to spend a little bit more and do the same. This is all they do, so you would hope they know a thing or too :P You are there all day, so don't expect a typical geo, which takes a couple of hours, or sometimes less.
Arrival at CofG, cup of tea, access to Wifi etc and greeted by this doggy
The first thing Chris and Pete was run through of my thoughts of the car . They wanted to know my perception, even if I couldn't communicate things in tech speak, just how it made me feel. Following that Chris did an initial inspection, checking tyre pressures, temperatures etc, before taking me out for a spin in the car.
This was interesting... We did the usual motoring, checking for movement in the car on acceleration, different camber of road, under breaking, over cobbled streets, almost every road condition on the route we were on, Then we did some sessions round roundabouts and tight bends. This was where I began to understand the potential of the car, with a relatively small roundabout ahead, we proceeded to drive round it at 20, 21, 22 to 28 mph, with the back end beginning to let go. God these cars can grip and turn tightly. However it also highlighted that the backend was breaking away and effectively, only 3 of the wheels were planted on the road correctly. Something to work on and dial in. Following that we then did some b road driving, and his verdict was not great. 60MPH and it was indeed jittery, as his kidneys got a buffeting. It's difficult as first time owner of a TVR. You don't know what a high performance sports car should feel like on a B road. Should it feel like that?. Chris has driven many sports cars, including TVR's and has a lot of experience (professionally trained), and confidently, indicated we can dial all of this out and have you driving along here at much higher speeds.
So, back to the CofG centre we go for some Chassis Tuning
Minimising Weight Transfer
Minimising bump-steer
Minimising roll-steer
Centre of gravity re-location
Corner weight distribution (cross weight ratios)
Roll-centre adjustment
Ride height adjustment
4 wheel alignment geometry adjustment (camber, castor and toe)
Tyre pyrometry and tyre pressure monitoring
At each stage they revisit some of the elements again and again, as they alter other aspects of the car. This took from 10am, till about 6PM with a few breaks in between. I've had mates leave there much later, as the car will not be released until they are satisfied e.g. changing bushes, or setting up to the millimetre.
Here are some examples of what they were up to, some before shots for example checking the performance of each shock on their vibration machine, which the car sits on...it goes on and on
Car setup for the first drive out. Chris drove the route again and proudly said, she's a pussy cat now. He changed a few settings half way through the trip, upping the Bump a little and rebound as it felt a little floaty in places. Fortunately, the shocks are easy to get to under the car. Then it was my turn. Your not going home until your satisfied and tell me everything you feel. Having spent a day with him it was easy to talk about my thoughts. I knew more about the car now, as throughout the day, he wanted to ensure I understood what they were doing and why. We could then tweak further. We got to the bumpy roads, and god what a difference, it felt planted and although he said, lets do the roads at 60mph again, i looked down and it might have been quicker, but of course I can't confirm that :P There was even a point, when he announced we had air there, as it landed, planted and firm.
Chris also commented on my driving, and indicated that with the new setup, we needed to build my confidence up again, so showed me a few things to put in place for the future, power in the corners to use the suspension to my advantage, breaking etc. I may have drifted off a roundabout, which was great, with him saying right, lets focus on the next corner, and me saying, wait a minute, i'm still in a moment back there
Now I think i'm a pretty competent driver, however you don't become a driving king by buying a flash sports car, but we will come to that later.So, after an amazing drive home, I would certainly recommend them. http://www.centregravity.co.uk
So, on to Bruntingthorpe Charity Day...
Bruntingthorpe was interesting...First time on a track type environment and a little nervous. The car couldn't have felt better. After a few sighting laps, we were off with a first passenger...Taking it easy to begin with, not the slowest, but many drivers out there that new where to push their cars. At the end of the lap, my first 360 degree spin, no damage as there is so much run off. I came quick into a corner, didn't break as hard as I should have (learning how to use the car in a new environment). Pull into the pits, little friendly warning ("is the car better than the driver sir") and back out again, just concentrating on what I was doing, not others...after 7-8 more laps, i'm feeling more confident and pushing harder
I decided to benchmark myself against two drivers who really know their cars, Rich in his Tuscan and a chap in a Black Sag, both who do lots of track days. The Sag has a similar feeling to the T350. Lots of muttered swearing and an amazed look on my face, these cars are astounding when pushed. The grip is insane and the movement round corners breathtaking. This was probably the best thing I could have done after taking my car out, as it gave me a clear appreciation of the potential, in the hands of an experienced driver. Going out with Rich in his 4.3 Tuscan was fantastic, god that engine pulled and over the course of the day, he did over 80 laps in his car, only stopping to put more fuel in. Who says TVR's aren't reliable!
So, the car is completely setup now, it feels amazing, with options for the track, which I can dial in myself. Unfortunately, the driver is not setup for track or at the level where I feel confident pushing the car close to it's limits like Rich and Mr Sag. Importantly if something does happen, I'm not 100% confident I could recover effectively. So i've booked myself in for a Track/Performance Car driver training day at Millbrook, with a few friends
. My car won't be doing many track days, as I want to look after her, but it's good to know i'm on a journey to realising the potential of both her and me.Hopefully, some of you will gain value from this and are in a similar position to me.
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Did you get many stone chips ..my front end was peppered with stone chips ..what`s the cost of all this alignment and corner weighting etc.
No mate, I managed to avoid chips. Although a caterham overtook on the right and pulled in front and i got debris in the face through the open window, which was nice. Did you enjoy the day? Was great seeing the TVRs there Millbrook is a better surface, for the driving day The cost depends on what you want to have done. I went for the works, like many of us have done. Best investment i've made in the car, so much for making it quicker, making it more drivable and setup correctly makes more sense.Have a chat with Chris, let him know what your interested in, he will talk through the options with you from a basic setup to full chassis tuning. I've also now got custom tyre pressures for my car, rather than the usual 24psi all round, mine are in tune with how the car is setup, the tyre temperatures across the tyre etc.
Edited by ShiDevil on Monday 12th August 19:09
As someone who is constantly trying to make my Tuscan better I,m very interested in these people. After 2 years I have got mine now handling very well IMO, it does have quite an aggressive geometry wet up though, on the road it's good, track even better.
But what I don't understand is what exactly do they do? Surely apart from geometry, tyre pressures and settings of the shocks what can they do? I see they wok on the car literally all day and everyone is very happy that's clear indeed just not sure what can be done without changing lots of parts.
But what I don't understand is what exactly do they do? Surely apart from geometry, tyre pressures and settings of the shocks what can they do? I see they wok on the car literally all day and everyone is very happy that's clear indeed just not sure what can be done without changing lots of parts.
Mines been there and excellent results despite been set up a few months earlier by another northampton area establishment. The difference they drive the car to see what has to be done and know what needs to be adjusted. This is what your paying for, not yes mate it's set to factory settings, factory geo just doesn't work on my car. You pay your money and take your choice.
THe end
THe end
I popped down to see Steve during his experience at CofG (I also have a late T350T)
to say these guys are passionate is an understatement! and they clearly know what they are doing, with some great kit.
IMHO and having spoken to a couple of TVR Specialist's I know... One thing TVR did get right was Geo set up from the factory settings and of course any GOOD TVR specialist will provide a Geo setting as part of the service, and discuss this with you to ensure the settings are as you require.
So, Why go the extra mile? Well....
I have Nitron's on my car currently and after having a test drive with CofG they said the car is set up well - and doesn't warrant a chassis tune and full monty Geo just yet, but does need a new set of rubber to combat a tad of under steer on the famous CofG '30mph roundabout test', which forms only part of there test drive.
(always nice to hear your car is well set up and planted, but also nice to see they don't just want to take money off people for the sake of it).
Having see these guys in action on Steve's beast, and talking to him about his car about before and after experiences, My personal plan is to see the rest of the year out and book in for a chassis tune and Geo before Le Mans 2014 and the summer season. As I personally feel that they will set the car up in such a way that's right for ME and My driving.
Now - I'm under no illusion's here... I DO NOT find the limits of my car often... well ever actually!!! But do want it set up for how I use the car.
to say these guys are passionate is an understatement! and they clearly know what they are doing, with some great kit.
IMHO and having spoken to a couple of TVR Specialist's I know... One thing TVR did get right was Geo set up from the factory settings and of course any GOOD TVR specialist will provide a Geo setting as part of the service, and discuss this with you to ensure the settings are as you require.
So, Why go the extra mile? Well....
I have Nitron's on my car currently and after having a test drive with CofG they said the car is set up well - and doesn't warrant a chassis tune and full monty Geo just yet, but does need a new set of rubber to combat a tad of under steer on the famous CofG '30mph roundabout test', which forms only part of there test drive.
(always nice to hear your car is well set up and planted, but also nice to see they don't just want to take money off people for the sake of it).
Having see these guys in action on Steve's beast, and talking to him about his car about before and after experiences, My personal plan is to see the rest of the year out and book in for a chassis tune and Geo before Le Mans 2014 and the summer season. As I personally feel that they will set the car up in such a way that's right for ME and My driving.
Now - I'm under no illusion's here... I DO NOT find the limits of my car often... well ever actually!!! But do want it set up for how I use the car.
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