Discussion
I can't believe it - I finally collected my t350c after a load of work (which was carried out brilliantly, everything sorted) and it's now started to overhead.
Well, I think it has. The car was in for a replacement temperature sensor about a month ago (because it read really high). The recent work involved lots of electrical changes and it appears to have made the temperature gauge overread again.
It generally reads between 90 and 97 in normal operation (today, which was a really hot day) and has read up to 115(!!) when stuck in traffic. As I didn't see anything melting, I assume that's a dodgy sensor (again?)
Opinions? Other symptoms include:
1) When left to cool, the oil seems to cool faster than the water
2) The fans come on when they're supposed to.
D
Well, I think it has. The car was in for a replacement temperature sensor about a month ago (because it read really high). The recent work involved lots of electrical changes and it appears to have made the temperature gauge overread again.
It generally reads between 90 and 97 in normal operation (today, which was a really hot day) and has read up to 115(!!) when stuck in traffic. As I didn't see anything melting, I assume that's a dodgy sensor (again?)
Opinions? Other symptoms include:
1) When left to cool, the oil seems to cool faster than the water
2) The fans come on when they're supposed to.
D
mjc said:
See here...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=7&h=&t=166905
Thanks for that! The temperature does seem to vary (too) quickly so an air lock is very likely.
I've been topping up the coolant after drives to attempt to get rid of it, but I can't find the bleed screw (allen key thingy).
Would you mind describing where it is, and how you bled yours?
Thanks,
D
Look straight down the gap at the front of the bonet where you can see the washer bottle. on each side you will see a short section of 1" 1/2 metal pipe about 4" to 5" long, connected between black hoses. The hose is the feed and return from the radiator, and the metal pipe is at a high point in the system. Its in each of these two metal sections that you will find the allen-key bleed screw. The way I bled it was:
Top up with fluid
Run engine for few minutes to circulate
Slacken off left-hand bleed-screw until air bubbles escape.
Re-tighten when air bubbles stop.
Repeat for right-hand bleed-screw.
Repeat the above sequence several times until no air bubbles appear two sequences in a row.
NB. Carefull when you loosen bleed screw - it does need to be slackened a fair ammount to let the air start to release, but if you undo it too much, it will come out, you will have a fountain of hot coolant, and you may well loose the copper sealing washer. From experiance...!!!
Sorry - above typed in a hurry - hope it makes sense!
mjc
edited to correct some of the more major spelling mistakes...
>> Edited by mjc on Tuesday 31st May 08:51
Top up with fluid
Run engine for few minutes to circulate
Slacken off left-hand bleed-screw until air bubbles escape.
Re-tighten when air bubbles stop.
Repeat for right-hand bleed-screw.
Repeat the above sequence several times until no air bubbles appear two sequences in a row.
NB. Carefull when you loosen bleed screw - it does need to be slackened a fair ammount to let the air start to release, but if you undo it too much, it will come out, you will have a fountain of hot coolant, and you may well loose the copper sealing washer. From experiance...!!!
Sorry - above typed in a hurry - hope it makes sense!
mjc
edited to correct some of the more major spelling mistakes...
>> Edited by mjc on Tuesday 31st May 08:51
mjc said:
Look straight down the gap at the front of the bonet where you can see the washer bottle. on each side you will see a short section of metal pipe abot 4" to 5" long, connected between black hoses. The hose is the feed and return from the radiator, anf the metal piint is at a high point in the system. Its in each of these two metal sections that you will find the allenkey bleed screw. The way I bled it was:
Top up with fluid
Fun engine for few minutes to circulate
Slacken off left-hand bleed-screw until air bubbles escape.
Re-tighten when air bubbles stop.
Repeat for right-hand bleed-screw.
Repeat the above sequence several times until no air bubbles appear two sequences in a row.
NB. Carefull when you loosen bleed screw - it does need to be slackened a fair ammount to let the air start to release, but if you undo it too much, it will come out, you will have a fountain of hot coolant, and you may well loose the copper sealing washer. From experiance...!!!
Sorry - above typed in a hurry - hope it makes sense!
mjc
Makes perfect sense - thank you! I'll give that a go this evening (and hope it works as I've got a 200 mile journey ahead of me!)
If, after you've bled it, you still have problems with airlocks I would bet that you have a leak in the rad.
I had a similar problem after it came back from its 12k at the factory: constantly adding a little water, high temps, etc. It took 6 months to find the pinhole on the offside which was dribbling a little water every time it got hot. It was such a small leak that it evaporated in the engine bay so no puddle was left on the floor. Trouble was it was now out of warranty so after a big argument the factory finally paid for the rad and I paid the labour.
When I was selling my car recently, "has it had a new rad fitted?" was one of the first things the dealers asked (apart from "how many engines has it had" ) They didn't go into detail but it seems if you have to add water at any time, you probably need a new rad.
Get it sorted in warranty or at least get some evidence that you complained it was losing water. I wish I had!
I had a similar problem after it came back from its 12k at the factory: constantly adding a little water, high temps, etc. It took 6 months to find the pinhole on the offside which was dribbling a little water every time it got hot. It was such a small leak that it evaporated in the engine bay so no puddle was left on the floor. Trouble was it was now out of warranty so after a big argument the factory finally paid for the rad and I paid the labour.
When I was selling my car recently, "has it had a new rad fitted?" was one of the first things the dealers asked (apart from "how many engines has it had"
) They didn't go into detail but it seems if you have to add water at any time, you probably need a new rad. Get it sorted in warranty or at least get some evidence that you complained it was losing water. I wish I had!
blueyes said:
If, after you've bled it, you still have problems with airlocks I would bet that you have a leak in the rad.
I had a similar problem after it came back from its 12k at the factory: constantly adding a little water, high temps, etc. It took 6 months to find the pinhole on the offside which was dribbling a little water every time it got hot. It was such a small leak that it evaporated in the engine bay so no puddle was left on the floor. Trouble was it was now out of warranty so after a big argument the factory finally paid for the rad and I paid the labour.
When I was selling my car recently, "has it had a new rad fitted?" was one of the first things the dealers asked (apart from "how many engines has it had"
Get it sorted in warranty or at least get some evidence that you complained it was losing water. I wish I had!
Thanks for that, I'll certainly keep it in mind.
The car still has 13 months warranty left (I extended it) so i've got a while to solve this one!
Having said that, it behaved very well before the work was carried out, so I presume the cooling system was drained during the work and has got some air in it.
Well, now I'm completely confused. I bled the system (and there was some air in it) and it has made the temperature readings more consistent.
However, they're still high (90-95 in normal use, 8x on a run and and up to 100' in light traffic). The really strange thing is that since I had the work done (new engine bay wiring loom) the oil temperature has also risen by approximately 10'. It used to run cold (and I had trouble keeping it over 60' on a run) but now it's generally between 70 and 80' when warm.
So, I've no idea what to make of that (other than the engine is actually generating more heat?).
Any clues? I suspect it may need to go back to get the 2nd expansion chamber fitted (as others have had done) but I'm reluctant to hassle the poor dealer again (it's all under warranty and I don't use the original dealer) so I think I'll call the factory and see if they can fit me in.
However, they're still high (90-95 in normal use, 8x on a run and and up to 100' in light traffic). The really strange thing is that since I had the work done (new engine bay wiring loom) the oil temperature has also risen by approximately 10'. It used to run cold (and I had trouble keeping it over 60' on a run) but now it's generally between 70 and 80' when warm.
So, I've no idea what to make of that (other than the engine is actually generating more heat?).
Any clues? I suspect it may need to go back to get the 2nd expansion chamber fitted (as others have had done) but I'm reluctant to hassle the poor dealer again (it's all under warranty and I don't use the original dealer) so I think I'll call the factory and see if they can fit me in.
Nope, it sounds like you have done it right. I stand to be corrected, but I believe there is a coolant/oil heat exchanger. Now you have bled your coolant system of air this exchanger is now working more efficiently and the oil is reaching temperature much quicker. Exactly the same happened with mine and your temperature readings sound spot on too...
I've been tld running at 90-95 is not high and is quite normal. Mine runs at 90-100 during normal trips and 100-110 during traffic or serious driving.
Having said that i get water sensor errors every time i drive!! who knows....
Is there a water sensor fix out or are people still getting faulty sensors fitted?
Having said that i get water sensor errors every time i drive!! who knows....
Is there a water sensor fix out or are people still getting faulty sensors fitted?
stevenleith said:
I've been tld running at 90-95 is not high and is quite normal. Mine runs at 90-100 during normal trips and 100-110 during traffic or serious driving.
Having said that i get water sensor errors every time i drive!! who knows....
Is there a water sensor fix out or are people still getting faulty sensors fitted?
The water sensor errors (probably caused by air pockets passing over the sensor), and the running at 100 to 110 deg sounds like your system could do with bleeding too...
>> Edited by mjc on Thursday 2nd June 12:22
>> Edited by mjc on Thursday 2nd June 12:23
mjc said:
Nope, it sounds like you have done it right. I stand to be corrected, but I believe there is a coolant/oil heat exchanger. Now you have bled your coolant system of air this exchanger is now working more efficiently and the oil is reaching temperature much quicker. Exactly the same happened with mine and your temperature readings sound spot on too...
Hmm, I still reckon it's hot (judging by previous threads). Now, whether it's really running hot or is just an inaccurate sensor is another question altogether!
If it's running in the high nineties in normal operation, I dread to think what it would do if stuck in traffic in a warmer climate.
So, I think I'll just keep an eye on it. I'm going to book it in to be looked at anyway (and have the modified expansion chamber fitted) and if it gets any worse (i.e. I see temperatures in the 100's) then I'll attempt to get the 'fix' date brought forward.
I spoke to the factory on this today and they were really good about it.
D
stevenleith said:
Having said that i get water sensor errors every time i drive!!
I got a new sensor a couple of weeks ago. I'll let you know whether it's (massively) over reading, and that should answer your question!
I got a new speedo sensor too (and that's better than before, but not perfect). Ah well, looks like it's par for the course with a t350....
rolex said:
In normal use my water temp has always been between 90 and 98 Im sure theres nothink wrong with that. Stuck in a jam it may wonder up to 105ish but the fans soon get it back down again.
Hmmm. Maybe I was just getting an artificially low reading previously? Mind you, others have reported running of about 10' less in all circumstances.
I think I'll get the cooling mod done anyway for peace of mind (and for use abroad/track days).
The kit isn't overly expensive (so I'm told) because TVR don't add any mark up.
You might think about fitting a proper air/oil cooler. the water/oil one is a waste of time in hot climates.
On both occasions that I ran it in Italy, when I drove it hard, I got an oil temp warning.
Alex from U.K. garage (Italian TVR dealer) said it was to be expected as the current set up wasn't made for southern European temps. He said fitting a 6kg (oil volume) cooler would do the trick.
On both occasions that I ran it in Italy, when I drove it hard, I got an oil temp warning.
Alex from U.K. garage (Italian TVR dealer) said it was to be expected as the current set up wasn't made for southern European temps. He said fitting a 6kg (oil volume) cooler would do the trick.
I think the bleeding sorted it.
I did 500 miles last week and was stuck in traffic for 45 minutes on a warm day on Friday.
The warmest the car has run is 99' and it ran at 88-92 this morning for most of the motorway journey.
The fans seem to cut in 5' higher than they should, so I suspect the dash sensor and the ecu sensor aren't aligned (which isn't too much on an issue).
I'm going to get the additional tank fitted anyway to be doubley sure, but it's looking good at the moment (and I'm down to 2-3 very small niggles left to fix) so I think I'm finally getting there!!
>> Edited by _DeeJay_ on Monday 6th June 15:25
I did 500 miles last week and was stuck in traffic for 45 minutes on a warm day on Friday.
The warmest the car has run is 99' and it ran at 88-92 this morning for most of the motorway journey.
The fans seem to cut in 5' higher than they should, so I suspect the dash sensor and the ecu sensor aren't aligned (which isn't too much on an issue).
I'm going to get the additional tank fitted anyway to be doubley sure, but it's looking good at the moment (and I'm down to 2-3 very small niggles left to fix) so I think I'm finally getting there!!
>> Edited by _DeeJay_ on Monday 6th June 15:25
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