Overheating Issues and grease on wheel of T350
Discussion
Got back from Le Mans last night... boy was it hot out there!
Maybe I was asking for trouble by taking my T350 (Jan 2003 model) after only purchasing it a few weeks ago! It behaved itself fine on the way down apart from towards the end of the journey (nice "spirited" driving around the back roads all the way from Calais to Le Mans) when I noticed grease all over the rear passenger side wheel and looking through the wheel I could see it on the chassis and springs etc. as well. Here is a photo of the leaking grease:
edit: photo removed
What could this be? I thought a gaiter or something had come loose allowing the grease from a joint (CV joint!?) to come out. And looking at these photos it looks like it is the gaiter you can see there. Is this a CV gaiter?
I phoned my TVR garage and they said it might have been the grease from the driveshaft getting hot and thin and leaking out of the seal, and that this may just be the first time the car has been driven for so long and so hard so that might be why it is doing it?
I cleaned the grease up when I got a chance to clean the car at Le Mans and the same thing happened on the way home. Anyone have any idea what it could be?
The worst problem I had with the car was overheating! I didn't have a problem with this on the way down as I guess it just wasn't that hot. On the Friday at Le Mans it was stupidly hot but needed to make a trip into Le Mans city centre, traffic was bad and I had no choice other than sit in it in the unbearable heat! The car soon started complaining and the water reaching an average of about 97 degrees going no higher than 105 degrees. It then started hissing out of the blue cap on the reservoir and then steaming through the bonnet. I stopped as soon as this happened and I fill the water tank back up.
I have looked to see if the fans are working but I can only seem to see one working and never the second fan, even when the water is up at 100 degrees. Are the fans meant to carry on working even if the engine is off like in most cars? Maybe it is my thermostat which has gone? What water temperature is normal in a Speed Six?
I'm worried about these problems as I will soon be making a trip to the Nurburgring and will need the car to behave through many laps of the 'ring! I am then off to the Stelvio Pass and back to the 'ring again. So I will be driving the car hard and hope for it to not cause me grief like this! Luckily I had a mate with me with a load of tools so I was able to take the bonnet off to gain full access to the engine bay to check all hoses and to bleed the system but I don't know what I would have done had he not been there! Time to invest in a small tool kit I think!
>> Edited by NickT on Wednesday 10th August 13:19
Maybe I was asking for trouble by taking my T350 (Jan 2003 model) after only purchasing it a few weeks ago! It behaved itself fine on the way down apart from towards the end of the journey (nice "spirited" driving around the back roads all the way from Calais to Le Mans) when I noticed grease all over the rear passenger side wheel and looking through the wheel I could see it on the chassis and springs etc. as well. Here is a photo of the leaking grease:
edit: photo removed
What could this be? I thought a gaiter or something had come loose allowing the grease from a joint (CV joint!?) to come out. And looking at these photos it looks like it is the gaiter you can see there. Is this a CV gaiter?
I phoned my TVR garage and they said it might have been the grease from the driveshaft getting hot and thin and leaking out of the seal, and that this may just be the first time the car has been driven for so long and so hard so that might be why it is doing it?
I cleaned the grease up when I got a chance to clean the car at Le Mans and the same thing happened on the way home. Anyone have any idea what it could be?
The worst problem I had with the car was overheating! I didn't have a problem with this on the way down as I guess it just wasn't that hot. On the Friday at Le Mans it was stupidly hot but needed to make a trip into Le Mans city centre, traffic was bad and I had no choice other than sit in it in the unbearable heat! The car soon started complaining and the water reaching an average of about 97 degrees going no higher than 105 degrees. It then started hissing out of the blue cap on the reservoir and then steaming through the bonnet. I stopped as soon as this happened and I fill the water tank back up.
I have looked to see if the fans are working but I can only seem to see one working and never the second fan, even when the water is up at 100 degrees. Are the fans meant to carry on working even if the engine is off like in most cars? Maybe it is my thermostat which has gone? What water temperature is normal in a Speed Six?
I'm worried about these problems as I will soon be making a trip to the Nurburgring and will need the car to behave through many laps of the 'ring! I am then off to the Stelvio Pass and back to the 'ring again. So I will be driving the car hard and hope for it to not cause me grief like this! Luckily I had a mate with me with a load of tools so I was able to take the bonnet off to gain full access to the engine bay to check all hoses and to bleed the system but I don't know what I would have done had he not been there! Time to invest in a small tool kit I think!
>> Edited by NickT on Wednesday 10th August 13:19
The second fan should turn on - they always come on together on my car. 105 isn't so hot, but then the sensor could be underreading. The water spurting out thing does sound like a combination of an airlock and the expansion tank problem which seems to affect some cars.
Does the temp cool down nicely once you're moving? I'm wondering if there could potentially be a water pump problem (never heard of one so don't panic).
Oil on the wheel - could be grease thinning and spitting out, but the question is how much is left in whereever it came from?!?
Oil topup - they can use a bit of oil, usually only if you give them a good thrashing. 1 litre in 1,000 miles isn't too bad they're 1,000 hard miles as you describe. Mine only used a smidge on a recent 2,000 miles trip to the South of France, but it wasn't thrashed most of the time, lots of motorway 90mph stylee stuff (plus a speed limiter in the passenger seat combined with French Police adventures).
Does the temp cool down nicely once you're moving? I'm wondering if there could potentially be a water pump problem (never heard of one so don't panic).
Oil on the wheel - could be grease thinning and spitting out, but the question is how much is left in whereever it came from?!?
Oil topup - they can use a bit of oil, usually only if you give them a good thrashing. 1 litre in 1,000 miles isn't too bad they're 1,000 hard miles as you describe. Mine only used a smidge on a recent 2,000 miles trip to the South of France, but it wasn't thrashed most of the time, lots of motorway 90mph stylee stuff (plus a speed limiter in the passenger seat combined with French Police adventures).
I don't know about the extra expansion tank, but I doubt I have one as my car was probably one of the first T350s about (it was originally Racing Green's demo car I believe). The only expansion tank is the metal one which just looks like a piece of pipe with a cap on it. (Sorry, can't think of anything else to describe it).
The car is going into the garage in a week or so to be checked out. I hope it isn't just that the car isn't up to the job!?!? I spoke to other T350 and Tamora owners at Le Mans and not one had a problem.
The grease is worrying me quite a bit as it looks like there is a lot of it over the suspension. I took some photos with my camera phone just now while cleaning it, I'll post them up in a bit... along with the engine bay actually.
Cheers!
The car is going into the garage in a week or so to be checked out. I hope it isn't just that the car isn't up to the job!?!? I spoke to other T350 and Tamora owners at Le Mans and not one had a problem.
The grease is worrying me quite a bit as it looks like there is a lot of it over the suspension. I took some photos with my camera phone just now while cleaning it, I'll post them up in a bit... along with the engine bay actually.
Cheers!
First post edited with photos to show the grease. Before taking the photos I hadn't seen the gaiter as it is so awkward to see without taking the wheel off. Camera phones do have their uses after all 
Looks like it is coming from the gaiter? Is this a CV joint under this gaiter?
Forgot to take a photo of my expansion tank but will do that tomorrow. My T350 also has the old style vertical mounted radiator rather than the horizontal one which the later cars have. Does this make a lot of difference? Surely a £40k+ car shouldn't suffer from overheating when it gets a little hot, or is this why they altered the design later in production?
Looks like it is coming from the gaiter? Is this a CV joint under this gaiter?
Forgot to take a photo of my expansion tank but will do that tomorrow. My T350 also has the old style vertical mounted radiator rather than the horizontal one which the later cars have. Does this make a lot of difference? Surely a £40k+ car shouldn't suffer from overheating when it gets a little hot, or is this why they altered the design later in production?
Looks like a split gaitor, or one loose at the end. You'll have lost a lot of the lubrication for the half shaft so I would suggest getting it attended to soon and not doing big miles.
The extra expansion tank mod only seems to be needed on some cars. TVR have fitted it FOC to some cars, suggest you pester the dealer. Remember, customers are TVR's beta tester so you will see some design improvements since yours came out. Mine runs at 90deg in hot weather, rising to 95-98 in a traffic jam, but it's a later car with the 'flatter' radiator.
The extra expansion tank mod only seems to be needed on some cars. TVR have fitted it FOC to some cars, suggest you pester the dealer. Remember, customers are TVR's beta tester so you will see some design improvements since yours came out. Mine runs at 90deg in hot weather, rising to 95-98 in a traffic jam, but it's a later car with the 'flatter' radiator.
Speaking from experience, if it's using water... you have a leak, probably from the O/S front.
It'll be a tiny one that won't leave a puddle on the floor, just big enough to allow the water to evaporate with the heat of the engine. The hotter you're running the faster the water will leak but the extra engine and external heat will dry it up faster.
Your experience in Europe sounds exactly like mine: hot weather, high water temps, no visible leak but heavy use of water. Pressure testing showed nothing and I only found it when the leak got big enough to leave a tiny puddle. It had been using small amounts of water, running hot and getting airlocks for nearly 12 months.
Change the rad, should cost you about £400.
When I was selling mine the first question from traders was "how many rebuilds has it had?" (zero)and the second question was "has the rad been changed?" All 3 cars from my dealer had their rads changed so it appears it is a common fault on early cars.
It'll be a tiny one that won't leave a puddle on the floor, just big enough to allow the water to evaporate with the heat of the engine. The hotter you're running the faster the water will leak but the extra engine and external heat will dry it up faster.
Your experience in Europe sounds exactly like mine: hot weather, high water temps, no visible leak but heavy use of water. Pressure testing showed nothing and I only found it when the leak got big enough to leave a tiny puddle. It had been using small amounts of water, running hot and getting airlocks for nearly 12 months.
Change the rad, should cost you about £400.
When I was selling mine the first question from traders was "how many rebuilds has it had?" (zero)and the second question was "has the rad been changed?" All 3 cars from my dealer had their rads changed so it appears it is a common fault on early cars.
ive had simular overheating problems with my tam.
blue cap blows at 100 but in trafic rums at 97-98 to close for comfort.
just had temp sensor replaced as fans not comeing on and over heating but still seem to loose water is there any way of spotting the small leaks mentioned previously
blue cap blows at 100 but in trafic rums at 97-98 to close for comfort.
just had temp sensor replaced as fans not comeing on and over heating but still seem to loose water is there any way of spotting the small leaks mentioned previously
jeh2os said:
there any way of spotting the small leaks mentioned previously
uuuumm... possibly.... get it really hot then park it somewhere quiet, flip the bonnet and listen near the offside front.
All I know is:
1. changing the rad solved it's "George Best" thirst.
2. changing sensors did bugger all
3. TVR made me split the cost of the repair with them as they said it happened out of warranty... even though I was complaining about running hot from about month 6.
Hello from a Cerbie owner.
I have just had my rad rebuilt as I was loosing water when the car was cold, as the car heated up the crack was sealed up by the expanding metal. You can get the rad sorted for a lot less that £400 if you are good with the spanners. I had mine fully overhauled for £120, with a 12 month warranty.
Just as a point of intrest, if you notify the dealer of a problem within the warranty period this is used as 'Terms of notice'. Using this will cover you if the problem is not fixed until the car is out of waranty, hope that makes sense!
You should get the CV grease off the wheels asap as it eats alloy. If the grease if black then it is your CV and it only needs a small split to cause a real mess.
Nick
>> Edited by Extra 300 Driver on Sunday 26th June 13:47
I have just had my rad rebuilt as I was loosing water when the car was cold, as the car heated up the crack was sealed up by the expanding metal. You can get the rad sorted for a lot less that £400 if you are good with the spanners. I had mine fully overhauled for £120, with a 12 month warranty.
Just as a point of intrest, if you notify the dealer of a problem within the warranty period this is used as 'Terms of notice'. Using this will cover you if the problem is not fixed until the car is out of waranty, hope that makes sense!
You should get the CV grease off the wheels asap as it eats alloy. If the grease if black then it is your CV and it only needs a small split to cause a real mess.
Nick
>> Edited by Extra 300 Driver on Sunday 26th June 13:47
Extra 300 Driver said:
Just as a point of intrest, if you notify the dealer of a problem within the warranty period this is used as 'Terms of notice'. Using this will cover you if the problem is not fixed until the car is out of waranty, hope that makes sense!
Ah yes.... with normal car firms this works.... with TVR it's another matter.
I had complained about it running hot/using water every time I'd taken it in for various niggles(6 or seven times) and because there was nothing in writing or "on the dealers computer" they refused to pay, despite the fact they'd changed the water sensors 3 times.
It took a dozen calls/faxes and me getting shitty before they offered to split the bill.
One of the reasons I didn't buy another TVR.
Make your complaint it in writing... and keep a copy!
My car is way out of its TVR warranty (Jan 2003 car) but the dealer gave me a 12 month 3rd party "premier plus" warranty which covers everything other than wear and tear. I'm hoping this is all covered! I'm also hoping that if it isn't covered I will get it sorted as a good will gesture as I have only had the car a few weeks!
Just noticed now that the water marks on the top of the bonnet from where the water escaped from the cooling system (boiling hot water!) have stained it I tried polishing them out the other day and it looked like I had almost succeeded but this is the first time I have driven the car since and under the extreme heat of the sun combined with engine heat they have re-appeared! It looks like someone has just spilt something down the whole of the bonnet. I'm hoping that maybe a machine polish will get them out!?
Just noticed now that the water marks on the top of the bonnet from where the water escaped from the cooling system (boiling hot water!) have stained it
I tried polishing them out the other day and it looked like I had almost succeeded but this is the first time I have driven the car since and under the extreme heat of the sun combined with engine heat they have re-appeared! It looks like someone has just spilt something down the whole of the bonnet. I'm hoping that maybe a machine polish will get them out!?How many weeks? Have ou told your dealer? I would expect the CV to be covered under warranty as it is a material failure during the warranty period. If there is any other damage they should aso cough up for that.
As for the water stains, when did you start to loose water?
You have 28 days to take the car back.
PS I am a warranty manager!
As for the water stains, when did you start to loose water?
You have 28 days to take the car back.
PS I am a warranty manager!
My T350c is in at DM to be looked at, while I was dropping the car off yesterday I had a look at a new T350c and an early T350c (like mine) with the expansion tank fitted... I know what you are talking about now! 
I can confirm now that my car doesn't have the extra expansion tank fitted. It also has the vertical radiator rather than the later horizontal one if I hadn't mentioned that before.
I have read a few more threads on PH where people seem to be having similar problems to me and overheating doesn't seem to be uncommon! (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=182575&f=7&h=0, www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=7&h=&t=166905 and www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=130069&f=7&h=0). DM told me that occasionally the only way to fix the overheating problem is to fit the extra expansion tank, but unfortunately this isn't covered on their warranty (3rd party warranty). I have read a price on here of £125 + VAT for the extra expansion tank, that doesn't seem too bad.
I am still yet to see the second fan come on and my water temperatures seem to always be in the 90s when the car has warmed up. The weather hasn't been hot enough here, or I haven't driven the car hard enough to get the expansion tank cap to steam or the water to go above 100 degrees, but I am still loosing water, so I guess there must be a leak somewhere.
Hopefully the problem will be found and easily fixed at little cost to myself. I'll let you know how I get on!
I can confirm now that my car doesn't have the extra expansion tank fitted. It also has the vertical radiator rather than the later horizontal one if I hadn't mentioned that before.
I have read a few more threads on PH where people seem to be having similar problems to me and overheating doesn't seem to be uncommon! (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=182575&f=7&h=0, www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=7&h=&t=166905 and www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=130069&f=7&h=0). DM told me that occasionally the only way to fix the overheating problem is to fit the extra expansion tank, but unfortunately this isn't covered on their warranty (3rd party warranty). I have read a price on here of £125 + VAT for the extra expansion tank, that doesn't seem too bad.
I am still yet to see the second fan come on and my water temperatures seem to always be in the 90s when the car has warmed up. The weather hasn't been hot enough here, or I haven't driven the car hard enough to get the expansion tank cap to steam or the water to go above 100 degrees, but I am still loosing water, so I guess there must be a leak somewhere.
Hopefully the problem will be found and easily fixed at little cost to myself. I'll let you know how I get on!
So it’s over heating as it doesn’t have a second tank?
This has to be a failure of design. If the earlier cars were overheating, and TVR thought that in there wisdom they would fit another tank to stop the problem, then TVR are admitting there was a failure to meet there design specs.
To be frank and honest I think they are talking rubbish. You need to call TVR and explain the problem, see what there answer is.
This car was not free from defect during its warranty period, therefore covered under warranty.
This has to be a failure of design. If the earlier cars were overheating, and TVR thought that in there wisdom they would fit another tank to stop the problem, then TVR are admitting there was a failure to meet there design specs.
To be frank and honest I think they are talking rubbish. You need to call TVR and explain the problem, see what there answer is.
This car was not free from defect during its warranty period, therefore covered under warranty.
Interesting... this seems to be a common thing that people get done to earlier Speed Six cars to solve overheating problems.
Has anyone managed to get it done under 3rd party warranty or got TVR to pay for it when your car is out of manufacturer warranty?
As I have said I have a 3rd party warranty which covers a lot but apparently wont cover the cost of this modification (I think it comes under the category of making the car better or something like that). So I guess it is down to whether TVR will pay for the mod to fix their mistake.
I'm a kind of person who tends not to complain about anything, but if you don't complain then I suppose you don't get anything... I should get my missus on the case
Has anyone managed to get it done under 3rd party warranty or got TVR to pay for it when your car is out of manufacturer warranty?
As I have said I have a 3rd party warranty which covers a lot but apparently wont cover the cost of this modification (I think it comes under the category of making the car better or something like that). So I guess it is down to whether TVR will pay for the mod to fix their mistake.
I'm a kind of person who tends not to complain about anything, but if you don't complain then I suppose you don't get anything... I should get my missus on the case
Extra 300 Driver said:
If you can find one that has be done under warranty then they are all entitled to have them done.
In a perfect world maybe, but you try and phone the factory and see how much sense you get. Possibly things have improved since the takeover but last year it took me ages just to get them to agree to split the bill.....and even longer for a cheque to arrive and my car was only 3 months out of the first years warranty.
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