Future Sagaris Prices
Discussion
2 Smokin Barrels said:
I think the Speed 6 cars prices will drop following the introduction of a GM V8 in February 06.
et tu brute?
I for one would rather have an S6 engined car than a GM V8. And by some way.
If you or Smolensky think that TVR sales will take off by sticking a GM engine in there, you're mistaken I reckon.
Lotus were told for years by the press to get rid of the four pot. They eventually did at great expense and produced the V8 Esprit. It wasn't exactly a runaway hit. They were hoping it would replace the Rover V8 as a kit car engine as it was much cleaner and emissions friendly but no takers there either.
Hmm, I often wonder how many people that bemoan the S6 and say they long for another V8 would actually buy a new V8 engined TVR if it were available, I'm guessing very few, after all, the sales of the Elise haven't exactly sky-rocketed since the introduction of the Honda power plant, as far as I know!
the pits said:
I think the Speed 6 cars prices will drop following the introduction of a GM V8 in February 06.
et tu brute?
I for one would rather have an S6 engined car than a GM V8. And by some way.
If you or Smolensky think that TVR sales will take off by sticking a GM engine in there, you're mistaken I reckon.
Lotus were told for years by the press to get rid of the four pot. They eventually did at great expense and produced the V8 Esprit. It wasn't exactly a runaway hit. They were hoping it would replace the Rover V8 as a kit car engine as it was much cleaner and emissions friendly but no takers there either.
And the main reason for that, it was there own design v8, at great cost, which now has a reputation for fragility.
VS an off the shelf low unit cost GM v8, lots of torue bhp, designed to survive a very litigous usa environemnt, good for 100k miles min. with effectively 400 GM engine designers, plus after market tuners all working for free at your behalf
Not quite the best analogy there.
I'd buy one. as i'm sure would many others, after all TVR only ever needed a few hundred people a year to like a particular model of a car a year. and they said sod the rest. A bought in lump was good for them for over 40 years.
Personally would love the original cobra eating griff 200/400, sam eengine as cobra
TVR lost the kit car image with the griffith/chimarea over a decade ago, this era also counted for their highest EVER volume of sales. Back to lotus, they don't seem to suffer a kit car image (and they used to be more than TVR) and all the elises, and variants are bought in blocks, albeit modified as I'm sure TVR did/would do.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 4th November 10:24
>> Edited by bjwoods on Friday 4th November 10:26
Even my V8-loving mates admit there's nothing quite like a S6 at full chat.
Apart from maybe an F1 car - something to do with a flat plane crank so I'm told?
Anyway, I for one hope the Speed6 is hear to stay and is developed further.
Would it not be possible for TVR to produce a V8 powered car (say the Cerbera/2+2 replacement) while still selling Speed 6 powered cars and keep both sets of fans happy?
Financially viable or suicidal?
Getting back to original topic, I'd expect Sagaris' may be around the £34-36K at 18 months - just basing that on what I bought my Tamora for when its was 18 months old.
Anyone else?
Apart from maybe an F1 car - something to do with a flat plane crank so I'm told?
Anyway, I for one hope the Speed6 is hear to stay and is developed further.
Would it not be possible for TVR to produce a V8 powered car (say the Cerbera/2+2 replacement) while still selling Speed 6 powered cars and keep both sets of fans happy?
Financially viable or suicidal?
Getting back to original topic, I'd expect Sagaris' may be around the £34-36K at 18 months - just basing that on what I bought my Tamora for when its was 18 months old.
Anyone else?
Much as I think the Speed Six is a cracking engine, I would not currently buy one. I would buy a GMV8 engined TVR though.
I do believe the Speed Six "issues" are probably overstated, it is after all an ill-disguised racing engine that I would expect to require higher maintenance and a level of mechanical sensitivity. However, if you had a TVR with a well proven, bombproof and grunty engine/drivetrain most people would happily put up with the other idiosyncrosies inherent in a specialist sportscar. TVR would, absolutely and definitely, sell a lot more, particularly in the face of the rampant commercialism being displayed by other sportscar (german and italian!)companies.
I do believe the Speed Six "issues" are probably overstated, it is after all an ill-disguised racing engine that I would expect to require higher maintenance and a level of mechanical sensitivity. However, if you had a TVR with a well proven, bombproof and grunty engine/drivetrain most people would happily put up with the other idiosyncrosies inherent in a specialist sportscar. TVR would, absolutely and definitely, sell a lot more, particularly in the face of the rampant commercialism being displayed by other sportscar (german and italian!)companies.
A tvr engine in a tvr is what makes TVR a marque.
The engine in a TVR so dominates the experience a different engine will change the characteristics of the car beyond all recognition. Maybe for some for the better, but for me - I love the spitfire engine in the nose of my Sagaris.
Wheeler wanted his own engines not just for pride but also so he could make a unit designed and built purely for TVRs. This means certain characteristics that make the S6 so special such as the light flywheel and first rate throttle response. The trend for modern engines has been towards heavy flywheels to make them easier to drive in town, less likely to stall etc - all reasons which have nothing to do with performance driving. A lot of people like the Dodge Viper but the engine is from a truck and peaks at 5000 revs - not exactly exotic.
A dealer once told me that he's fed up of listening to 'enthusiasts' because they always say they'll buy the car when x happens or they change y. They go and change x,y and z and still no-one buys the cars. Lets see how Marcos sales do. That is designed purely to attract the old school TVR customer - ex TVR stylist, bought in V8, lots of torque. If there was a big market for a TVR like this, there will be a big market for the Marcos. Noble seems to have pinched a few TVR customers so Marcos should have no problem if this is what people really want.
Besides which, none of the problems I've had with my car were anything to do with the engine. A low revving V8 that ran for 100,000 miles wouldn't cure the niggles.
>> Edited by the pits on Friday 4th November 11:15
The engine in a TVR so dominates the experience a different engine will change the characteristics of the car beyond all recognition. Maybe for some for the better, but for me - I love the spitfire engine in the nose of my Sagaris.
Wheeler wanted his own engines not just for pride but also so he could make a unit designed and built purely for TVRs. This means certain characteristics that make the S6 so special such as the light flywheel and first rate throttle response. The trend for modern engines has been towards heavy flywheels to make them easier to drive in town, less likely to stall etc - all reasons which have nothing to do with performance driving. A lot of people like the Dodge Viper but the engine is from a truck and peaks at 5000 revs - not exactly exotic.
A dealer once told me that he's fed up of listening to 'enthusiasts' because they always say they'll buy the car when x happens or they change y. They go and change x,y and z and still no-one buys the cars. Lets see how Marcos sales do. That is designed purely to attract the old school TVR customer - ex TVR stylist, bought in V8, lots of torque. If there was a big market for a TVR like this, there will be a big market for the Marcos. Noble seems to have pinched a few TVR customers so Marcos should have no problem if this is what people really want.
Besides which, none of the problems I've had with my car were anything to do with the engine. A low revving V8 that ran for 100,000 miles wouldn't cure the niggles.
>> Edited by the pits on Friday 4th November 11:15
I guess if they were breaking in the US market this may be an option. Having seen the tuscan 2 conv with its rollover hoops etc, it looks like it was made for the us market! I wonder if its cheaper to buy in a unit than get type approval for a speed6. As for me I love my speed6, the noise imho is way better than a v8, but I know why people like them, ultimately it was the noise of tvrs and my love for there style that brought me to the marque.
But ideally speculating is really tosh till the facts are announced, and no car manufacturer would want the competition to know what they are upto surely. Having read the PH factory visit its clear tvr are going up a gear in keeping there secrets locked away so why dont we wait till its true or not then worry!
But ideally speculating is really tosh till the facts are announced, and no car manufacturer would want the competition to know what they are upto surely. Having read the PH factory visit its clear tvr are going up a gear in keeping there secrets locked away so why dont we wait till its true or not then worry!
badapple said:
Where do you think sagaris prices will be in 6-12 months?
The idea of perhaps having one with 12-18 months warranty would be nice
Back to the original question, I wouldn't like to speculate on prices - too many variables. I do however know one thing for certain - mine won't be available
PP
the pits said:
A tvr engine in a tvr is what makes TVR a marque.
The engine in a TVR so dominates the experience a different engine will change the characteristics of the car beyond all recognition. Maybe for some for the better, but for me - I love the spitfire engine in the nose of my Sagaris.
Wheeler wanted his own engines not just for pride but also so he could make a unit designed and built purely for TVRs. This means certain characteristics that make the S6 so special such as the light flywheel and first rate throttle response. The trend for modern engines has been towards heavy flywheels to make them easier to drive in town, less likely to stall etc - all reasons which have nothing to do with performance driving. A lot of people like the Dodge Viper but the engine is from a truck and peaks at 5000 revs - not exactly exotic.
A dealer once told me that he's fed up of listening to 'enthusiasts' because they always say they'll buy the car when x happens or they change y. They go and change x,y and z and still no-one buys the cars. Lets see how Marcos sales do. That is designed purely to attract the old school TVR customer - ex TVR stylist, bought in V8, lots of torque. If there was a big market for a TVR like this, there will be a big market for the Marcos. Noble seems to have pinched a few TVR customers so Marcos should have no problem if this is what people really want.
Besides which, none of the problems I've had with my car were anything to do with the engine. A low revving V8 that ran for 100,000 miles wouldn't cure the niggles.
>> Edited by the pits on Friday 4th November 11:15
Problem with the marcos - v8 yes - prodrive handleing yes - styling ugly stick - yes (argh problem, should be no)
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