warming up garage or not?
Discussion
Ok guys i know this is probably a personal thing but i want to do the best for my t350,
ive been looking on here and different threads seem to give different answers.
Basically at the moment i start my car in the garage with no throttle and leave it 10 minutes to warm up before i drive off. (which puts her at around 45 degrees so instant fun), but ive read a couple of threads which say this can do more harm than good as the oil pressure is low at tickover?
So basically im asking for opinions pls guys and gals
ive been looking on here and different threads seem to give different answers.
Basically at the moment i start my car in the garage with no throttle and leave it 10 minutes to warm up before i drive off. (which puts her at around 45 degrees so instant fun), but ive read a couple of threads which say this can do more harm than good as the oil pressure is low at tickover?
So basically im asking for opinions pls guys and gals
Agreed. Start it, drive off. At tickover revs there is more pressure on some engine internals than trundling along at 1,500-2,000rpm - this is why when you install a new camshaft you get accompanying instructions to the engine builder to run the engine at (for example) 3,000 for the first 2 minutes, 2,000rpm for the next 2 minutes then not let it tickover for another few minutes.
Also, you don't warm the gearbox, brakes, diff by sitting on the drive.
Also, you don't warm the gearbox, brakes, diff by sitting on the drive.
I've asked this question of the factory and a few official and independents service centres and they all say the same thing - drive it straight away and let it warm up as you drive. Never leave it idling to warm up. One of the reason given was idleing for long periods is bad for the piston rings and they can 'glaze' over and result in a much weaker engines (I still have no idea what that means, but it's doesn't sound good).
The advice I follow is to drive it straight away and avoid going over 2500 rpm until the oil has reached 50c, then avoid going over 3500 rpm until the engine is fully warmed up. This last bit can change depending on the ambient temperature so keep an eye on the oil temperature - when it levels out and no longer goes up (or down) by more than a few degrees then you're engine is warmed up and you can have some fun (no more than 5500 rpm with my Red Rose until the 1000 mile service and a thicker oil is used).
If ever in doubt about something TVR related check with your owners manual, TVR direct or one of the many official or independents.
The advice I follow is to drive it straight away and avoid going over 2500 rpm until the oil has reached 50c, then avoid going over 3500 rpm until the engine is fully warmed up. This last bit can change depending on the ambient temperature so keep an eye on the oil temperature - when it levels out and no longer goes up (or down) by more than a few degrees then you're engine is warmed up and you can have some fun (no more than 5500 rpm with my Red Rose until the 1000 mile service and a thicker oil is used).
If ever in doubt about something TVR related check with your owners manual, TVR direct or one of the many official or independents.
lundinoir said:
One of the reason given was idleing for long periods is bad for the piston rings and they can 'glaze' over and result in a much weaker engines (I still have no idea what that means, but it's doesn't sound good).
I think this is similar to the problems with driving too gently while you are running an engine in. The problem I think is that the piston rings and cylinder bore start life with a very finely honed surface, and they are designed to polish each other to form a perfect fit. This happens fairly rapidly at first as they bed in, but it continues throughout the life of the engine. The problem is that this effect depends on pressure between the rings and the cylinder, and that pressure only occurs if the engine is under load.
This process of the rings and cylinder bedding in to each other can go wrong if there isn't enough load on the rings, or there is too much load on the piston (the engine is allowed to labour). In both cases the cylinder is polished by the piston instead of the rings, and that means the rings don't bed in properly. This is what is referred to as 'glazing', but it is only really a problem if the cylinder glazes a lot faster than the rings do.
As Lundinoir says 'this last bit can change'. Ambient temperature will make a massive difference to temperature reading especially if you are straight out onto the open road (if there is such a thing). Also you may need to figure out whether you temperature sensor is any more accurate that many of the sensors on our cars. It is possible that they are not exactly right - but once the readout stops increasing and is stable within a few degrees (and you have been driving for more than a few minutes) I would expect it would be adequately warmed up to increase the revs a bit more. Using this theory I have got more than 40k miles out my last 2 speed six engines.
I very rarely idle at all when I start up the engine' except when it's very cold and am approaching a service as the running can be slightly lumpy for the first couple of minutes.
The quickest way to warm up everything , in my car at least, is to drive straight out of the garage, then to have to stop for traffic or at some lights for a while within a couple of miles.
I very rarely idle at all when I start up the engine' except when it's very cold and am approaching a service as the running can be slightly lumpy for the first couple of minutes.
The quickest way to warm up everything , in my car at least, is to drive straight out of the garage, then to have to stop for traffic or at some lights for a while within a couple of miles.
tail slide said:
To add to above advice - a useful extra is a tubular heater (frost protection heater) under the car. Costs pennies to run and pre-heats oil, water and engine by many degrees.
I have often thought about that. Do you actually use one, if so how many watts etc?
>> Edited by maddog-uk on Saturday 6th May 06:08
shadowninja said:
as mentioned above, drive immediately, and stay under 3000 until 80C.
Isn't that a bit too conservative?
I've only reached 80C in the Sag a couple of times during the first 4000 miles (mainly winter driving), so by following that guideline I wouldn't have been able to bed the engine in properly. My method: Stick to 2500rpm to 40C, 3000rpm to 50C and thereafter you can start playing. IIRC the 80C benchmark is for anything over 7000rpm.
Edited to say: Agree, don't allow the engine to warm up by idling, drive immediately. IMO town driving is the best way to get the engine (and other components) up to temp.
>> Edited by PinkPanther on Saturday 6th May 06:38
I agree, I have only seen 80C oil on my Sag' in the hot summer. Like it says in the book, I drive from cold and wait for 40C then open the revvs a little and as temp rises open up some more. It's vary rare that I get the oportunity or need to go over 7k and have my change lights set to 6k for my normal driving.
The heater idea had crossed my mind, especially in winter when oil is down to 2-3C. Would be interested in anyone who has used one.
The heater idea had crossed my mind, especially in winter when oil is down to 2-3C. Would be interested in anyone who has used one.
maddog-uk said:
I have often thought about that. Do you actually use one, if so how many watts etc? >> Edited by maddog-uk on Saturday 6th May 06:08
Hi Maddog, yes I've used a Redring 60W 4ft long tubular frost-protection heater for years, on a timer plug. So it costs the same as a light bulb but difference in starting temp of oil & water is quite noticeable (don't ask exact figures!) Think they're available from most builders merchants.
Friends question my sanity...'aah, a hot-water bottle for the little sports car!' But most wear occurs in first minutes of running a cold engine, as you all probably know, so the sooner it warms up the better.
If you have a precious car which isn't used very often, would an engine pre-heater be a better bet? They're readily available, not cheap but then these engines aren't cheap either. A pre-oiler could be a useful investment too. You would still have to warm the transmission up before giving it beans, but I think it would avoid a lot of wear and tear to the engine.
Fair suggestion Pete, definitely more heat, like this one;
www.kenlowe.com/pre-heaters/cars/d
However, you assume the heater hose is easy to plumb into in-line ... you didn't see under the bonnet at Harewood did you?
You're right I didn't, but I assume for a road car this would be permanently fitted which simplifies things a bit. Bill was talking about fitting a removable one on the Pilbeam with dry break connectors and so on. The sad news about Tony's Ginetta at least means that Bill has decided to put his 4wd conversion on the back burner and put it back together so he has a bit less time and enthusiasm for marmalising the Pilbeam, which is a plus. 
Couldn't believe news of Tony's G27; surely they'll be unable to sell it so hopefully he may get it back, if it's not broken up. Gassing Station | Tamora, T350 & Sagaris | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff