Discussion
I was wondering if anyone has NOS'd a T350 yet. There is a Cerbera ( of course-there had to be )which seemed to do the job-but that was not a Six.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
sideways mostly said:
I was wondering if anyone has NOS'd a T350 yet. There is a Cerbera ( of course-there had to be )which seemed to do the job-but that was not a Six.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
Dom at Power!, when I has the t350 upgraded to the 4.0 RR he was trying to temp me into the NOS conversion too. I just didnt have the cash at the time as it was in the region of £2k
Mf F
brilliant-thanks mate!
You still enjoying the RR conversion? I must admit I am missing the bottom end grunt of the Tuscan S. Top end on the 3.6 is fabulous but I still would like a bit more.
P.S. oops ,just read your profile.See you've had a pretty serious upgrade!
You still enjoying the RR conversion? I must admit I am missing the bottom end grunt of the Tuscan S. Top end on the 3.6 is fabulous but I still would like a bit more.
P.S. oops ,just read your profile.See you've had a pretty serious upgrade!
Edited by sideways mostly on Thursday 14th September 21:23
Was thinking about it when I had my T350. But sinced changed to 450 Chimaera and done it to that. NOS has moved on since the eighties. I would recommend you install a 'progressive controller'. You can then feed it in gradually over a choosen time, rather than bang it all in one go. Think you may need a wet system also. If you really want to be safe you could install a primary solenoid, this will protect against loss of fuel pressure [low fuel out of bend etc] and cut off the nitrous. Let us know how you get on.
That sounds what I am after-not a movie still big kick but the ability to selectively fill in the bottom end of the rev range ( below 4k -after that it comes on cam and is fine) and balance out the delivery a bit.
I only need another 50 bhp or so-I'm not after a big jump.
Also it would be nice to switch it off when pottering about so it doesn't stress the engine when I don't need the extra.
I only need another 50 bhp or so-I'm not after a big jump.
Also it would be nice to switch it off when pottering about so it doesn't stress the engine when I don't need the extra.
Edited by sideways mostly on Thursday 14th September 21:46
Make sure you fit a pipe that feeds NOS into the air conditioning system, it is after all laughing gas!
I'd love to have the balls to fit a NOS system to my car one day, must be huge fun, but warranty, insurance etc issues are guaranteed in this joyless world of ours....
I'm not sure thought how it could be used to fill in the bottom end of the rev range. I would have thought the likely outcome is an even bigger hit over 4k, not under it. But hey either way a NOS equipped t350 might just be the ultimate supercar worrier.
I'd love to have the balls to fit a NOS system to my car one day, must be huge fun, but warranty, insurance etc issues are guaranteed in this joyless world of ours....
I'm not sure thought how it could be used to fill in the bottom end of the rev range. I would have thought the likely outcome is an even bigger hit over 4k, not under it. But hey either way a NOS equipped t350 might just be the ultimate supercar worrier.
TJW said:
yi8tvr said:
They will all say NOS has no detriment on the engine but it will burn your pistons
burn your pistons??? How exatcly?
With my professional hat on, I suspect that the particular oxide of nitrogen is introduced to add a concentrated blast of oxygen to the combustion mixture. When you combust anything that will burn with more oxygen, you get a hotter flame / explosion. This, I assume, is how the pistons might get burned! Then again, I'm only a chemist, not an engine expert, so I might be talking b*llocks! Have a good week-end guys.
G
Mr Freefall said:
sideways mostly said:
I was wondering if anyone has NOS'd a T350 yet. There is a Cerbera ( of course-there had to be )which seemed to do the job-but that was not a Six.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
Dom at Power!, when I has the t350 upgraded to the 4.0 RR he was trying to temp me into the NOS conversion too. I just didnt have the cash at the time as it was in the region of £2k
Mf F
2K for a nos install? Are you having a laugh?
I'll repeat that, are you having a laugh?
My mates had his T350c done at wizards of nos in middlesborough £550 fully fitted but he supplied the bottles.
Sort it out!
TJW said:
Yes, I figured that part, thats how Nitrous works
Bigger explosion within the pistons. However, I'm pretty sure that the TVR Speed 6 pistons can withold a few extra ponies! What are your pistons made out of ? Chocolate.
Bigger explosion within the pistons. However, I'm pretty sure that the TVR Speed 6 pistons can withold a few extra ponies! What are your pistons made out of ? Chocolate.If you want extra ponies the safer bet would be supercharging..
yi8tvr said:
TJW said:
Yes, I figured that part, thats how Nitrous works Bigger explosion within the pistons. However, I'm pretty sure that the TVR Speed 6 pistons can withold a few extra ponies! What are your pistons made out of ? Chocolate.
Bigger explosion within the pistons. However, I'm pretty sure that the TVR Speed 6 pistons can withold a few extra ponies! What are your pistons made out of ? Chocolate.If you want extra ponies the safer bet would be supercharging..
Erm, didn't TVR try that (and fail?).
I'm sure DJC will be along shortly to hint at doing something along those lines though.
Mr.Chips said:
TJW said:
yi8tvr said:
They will all say NOS has no detriment on the engine but it will burn your pistons
burn your pistons??? How exatcly?
With my professional hat on, I suspect that the particular oxide of nitrogen is introduced to add a concentrated blast of oxygen to the combustion mixture. When you combust anything that will burn with more oxygen, you get a hotter flame / explosion. This, I assume, is how the pistons might get burned! Then again, I'm only a chemist, not an engine expert, so I might be talking b*llocks! Have a good week-end guys.
G
Err, Nitrous is not injected on it's own, the correct amount of fuel needed is injected with it. Nitrous oxide injection is chemical supercharging. If anyone is going this route seek as many opinions from people who know of it or experience with it. Then you can decide which system to go for. Eliminate myths and the misinformed. As I said earlier, NOS has moved on since the eighties.
macdeb said:
Mr.Chips said:
TJW said:
yi8tvr said:
They will all say NOS has no detriment on the engine but it will burn your pistons
burn your pistons??? How exatcly?
With my professional hat on, I suspect that the particular oxide of nitrogen is introduced to add a concentrated blast of oxygen to the combustion mixture. When you combust anything that will burn with more oxygen, you get a hotter flame / explosion. This, I assume, is how the pistons might get burned! Then again, I'm only a chemist, not an engine expert, so I might be talking b*llocks! Have a good week-end guys.
G
Err, Nitrous is not injected on it's own, the correct amount of fuel needed is injected with it. Nitrous oxide injection is chemical supercharging. If anyone is going this route seek as many opinions from people who know of it or experience with it. Then you can decide which system to go for. Eliminate myths and the misinformed. As I said earlier, NOS has moved on since the eighties.
Im certainly no expert in the field of NOS but years ago when it was dumped into the combustion chamber it melted the pistons. Today though it is i think injected with precision by the size of the jets, ie bigger the jet more hp in increments of 50hp 75hp 100hp and so on.
With a 350hp sp6 you would most likely need 75hp minimum to have a sufficient benefit to cover the £1500 to £2000 cost. The nos is i think spliced into the fuel rail and engaged by a switch under the throttle pedal and activated when the throttle is fully open. A £60.00 refill will last 8 minutes i think.. As i said i dont know much about NOS and am probably talking a load of old pony. Still think it burns pistons?.
Thank you for your comments to date.
I have thought about the supercharger route seriously as well.My concern with that route is heat in the engine bay and what effect that has on long term reliability .As standard there may be too much heat already-I have just had all the engine mounts replaced due to heat fatiging the rubber.The exhaust side mount decays and with most of the weight on the right mount that seems to sink under the additional load.
Plus my understanding from the Typhon exteriment (which I freely admit I have only picked up reading on this site so no insider knowledge)is that there were serious heat problems with the instalation. There is a supercharged Tuscan on the road now so maybe this has been sorted.I am certainly not anti supercharging.
I am aware of early systems frying pistons.According to what I have learnt to date the US systems are still pretty crude and still 'dump' the Nos fuel mix.Great for the movies and under-stressed stock V8's but not the best way to go. The UK systems available have a more progressive delivery which avoids the sudden stress.
High temperatures can be reached and damage can occur if the fuel mix is too lean,if its too rich you don't get a good burn.
Only 8 minutes from a bottle is a consideration,but I think I can live with that as I want a system I can switch in when I want to enjoy the extra buzz but leave as Wheeler intended for normal driving. After all,the 3.6 has plenty of ponies for day to day driving.
I will be taking up the contacts raised in your replys and I'll let you know what I find out.
I appreciate the help!
I have thought about the supercharger route seriously as well.My concern with that route is heat in the engine bay and what effect that has on long term reliability .As standard there may be too much heat already-I have just had all the engine mounts replaced due to heat fatiging the rubber.The exhaust side mount decays and with most of the weight on the right mount that seems to sink under the additional load.
Plus my understanding from the Typhon exteriment (which I freely admit I have only picked up reading on this site so no insider knowledge)is that there were serious heat problems with the instalation. There is a supercharged Tuscan on the road now so maybe this has been sorted.I am certainly not anti supercharging.
I am aware of early systems frying pistons.According to what I have learnt to date the US systems are still pretty crude and still 'dump' the Nos fuel mix.Great for the movies and under-stressed stock V8's but not the best way to go. The UK systems available have a more progressive delivery which avoids the sudden stress.
High temperatures can be reached and damage can occur if the fuel mix is too lean,if its too rich you don't get a good burn.
Only 8 minutes from a bottle is a consideration,but I think I can live with that as I want a system I can switch in when I want to enjoy the extra buzz but leave as Wheeler intended for normal driving. After all,the 3.6 has plenty of ponies for day to day driving.
I will be taking up the contacts raised in your replys and I'll let you know what I find out.
I appreciate the help!
Edited by sideways mostly on Friday 15th September 21:45
Your welcome. Just for info' and further food for thought. Incorrect installation and use melts pistons. Seen some british installations and not impressed, especially when they filled my bottle with gas [you need liquid] and still thought all was well. The progressive controller I have in my car is Holley NOS [yank]. This delivers it as it says on the tin and does not just 'dump' it into the engine. Also, think TVR Power use Holley NOS. Good luck whatever path you choose.
PS. From my own experience and research, refills can be a problem [especially after wasting an hours dyno time because of 'gas' refill] I eventually went for refilling it myself at home. Bottle hire is £60 year [unless you can find your own] and a full bottle is £190. [Nitrous products ltd] This should work out very much cheaper and more convenient. If any more help needed feel free to mail me or you could look at the 'burgermanns nitrous' site.
PS. From my own experience and research, refills can be a problem [especially after wasting an hours dyno time because of 'gas' refill] I eventually went for refilling it myself at home. Bottle hire is £60 year [unless you can find your own] and a full bottle is £190. [Nitrous products ltd] This should work out very much cheaper and more convenient. If any more help needed feel free to mail me or you could look at the 'burgermanns nitrous' site.
Edited by macdeb on Monday 18th September 20:35
smithyl23 said:
Mr Freefall said:
sideways mostly said:
I was wondering if anyone has NOS'd a T350 yet. There is a Cerbera ( of course-there had to be )which seemed to do the job-but that was not a Six.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
It looks on paper like a cheap way to get more ponies and with modern systems its a bit more sophisticated with far less chance of grenading the engine or overheating.
I am not looking for anything outrageous-just a moderate boost on demand to get more grunt when I want it.
A 'dry' system looks like the simplest but I don't know if the ecu can be fooled into delivering a richer mix when required?
There are a load of technical guru's on this site so any advice would be greatly appreciated and also I'm posting here just in case anyone else is interested.
I'd be really grateful to talk to anyone who has done this already.
Dom at Power!, when I has the t350 upgraded to the 4.0 RR he was trying to temp me into the NOS conversion too. I just didnt have the cash at the time as it was in the region of £2k
Mf F
2K for a nos install? Are you having a laugh?
I'll repeat that, are you having a laugh?
My mates had his T350c done at wizards of nos in middlesborough £550 fully fitted but he supplied the bottles.
Sort it out!
Yeah right, £550 best you see the invoice first before posting rubbish. The kit allone is more that that...
Mr F
Mostly... Keep us posted, I saw Craigs install on his Cerb, with a 300 boost on a 400+ cerb, it ran 10.1 qtr mile at the pod!!! Awesome install!!!
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