Sagaris De-Cat
Discussion
I have just had my Sagaris de-catted.
Many thanks to DJC and Automedon (see "service at Automedon" thread on general TVR stuff and gossip).
Getting the Sag de-catted was not quite as straight forward as initially hoped, it would appear that the Sag has been lumbered with smaller bore intermediate pipes than is ideal, so larger ones needed to be fabricated to release some more power. DJC had the de-cats fabricated and also the larger intermediate pipes and all were fitted last night.
The increase in noise is not as harsh as may be expected, the car sounds deeper and more purposeful, and really howls (in a pleasant way!!) when throttling hard. Cruising at brisk speeds is not offensive or overly intrusive. On the over-run, the pops and crackles are louder and crisper than before.
Performance wise, the car pulls just as cleanly at all throttle openings and does not feel blighted by any flat spots, it also pulls harder and accelerates quicker. This is definately a real difference and not a psychological one because of the "racier" sound track.
If anyone is on the balance of having this done, I would seriously recommend it, the noise difference is not going to make you cringe and get fed up with it, but will guarrantee to put a smile on your face, and of course brisker performance is always good.
Many thanks again to DJC and Dave and Colin at Automedon.
Many thanks to DJC and Automedon (see "service at Automedon" thread on general TVR stuff and gossip).
Getting the Sag de-catted was not quite as straight forward as initially hoped, it would appear that the Sag has been lumbered with smaller bore intermediate pipes than is ideal, so larger ones needed to be fabricated to release some more power. DJC had the de-cats fabricated and also the larger intermediate pipes and all were fitted last night.
The increase in noise is not as harsh as may be expected, the car sounds deeper and more purposeful, and really howls (in a pleasant way!!) when throttling hard. Cruising at brisk speeds is not offensive or overly intrusive. On the over-run, the pops and crackles are louder and crisper than before.
Performance wise, the car pulls just as cleanly at all throttle openings and does not feel blighted by any flat spots, it also pulls harder and accelerates quicker. This is definately a real difference and not a psychological one because of the "racier" sound track.
If anyone is on the balance of having this done, I would seriously recommend it, the noise difference is not going to make you cringe and get fed up with it, but will guarrantee to put a smile on your face, and of course brisker performance is always good.
Many thanks again to DJC and Dave and Colin at Automedon.
Edited by sidecar pilot on Thursday 5th October 10:35
Thanks for feedback and praise Andrew 
Major thumbs up to the Automedon crew, they did an excellent job for Andrew. Unfortunately for Andrew he had been "slid" in that he had been given the 2 1/8 front pipes of the small bore set and not the 2 1/4 large bore pipes, so we had to acquire a correct set for him. As I understand it from the guys last night, Dave and Colin down there were excellent in remaining open late and getting the pipes replaced. Excellent service and I have no problems along with Andrew recommending them.
I wasnt going to mention the sliding issue because it potentially opens up a large can of worms for TVR
Doing the de-cats should be a relatively easy job unless TVR have put small bore pipes on. In theory there should be no Sag's out there with a small bore system, however I know that isnt the case and some have them because well they er, *ahem*, er basically what TVR had to hand in stock at the time.
Major thumbs up to the Automedon crew, they did an excellent job for Andrew. Unfortunately for Andrew he had been "slid" in that he had been given the 2 1/8 front pipes of the small bore set and not the 2 1/4 large bore pipes, so we had to acquire a correct set for him. As I understand it from the guys last night, Dave and Colin down there were excellent in remaining open late and getting the pipes replaced. Excellent service and I have no problems along with Andrew recommending them.
I wasnt going to mention the sliding issue because it potentially opens up a large can of worms for TVR
Doing the de-cats should be a relatively easy job unless TVR have put small bore pipes on. In theory there should be no Sag's out there with a small bore system, however I know that isnt the case and some have them because well they er, *ahem*, er basically what TVR had to hand in stock at the time. Hi Richard,
With regard to track day noise limits, a tricky one to call. I suspect it could possibly get through a static test if you were a bit coy with how hard you revved it. I had a 4.5 red rose Cerb de-catted with sports pipes also, it was unfeasably loud and not altogether a nice noise (imho) I settled for replacing the origional rear box and found it more to my liking. Following that, I had a T350T which was found to be just O.K at Bedford Autodrome in standard trim, after fitting a sports back box but not de-catted it would have been refused for sure, it was also rather a tedious noise on long journeys (having said that, the wind noise drone created by the targa panels wasn't helpful!).
I feel sure that I have a noise meter kicking about somewhere in the garage, we used to use it when we were sidecar racing,(Donnington of all places were really strict despite the number of jumbos' taking off and landing less than half a mile away????) I will try to dig it out and get a measurement in the next coupl;e of days, what revs do you want it doing at? if I can bring myself to rev hard not under load!
Hope this is of some help for you.
Andrew
With regard to track day noise limits, a tricky one to call. I suspect it could possibly get through a static test if you were a bit coy with how hard you revved it. I had a 4.5 red rose Cerb de-catted with sports pipes also, it was unfeasably loud and not altogether a nice noise (imho) I settled for replacing the origional rear box and found it more to my liking. Following that, I had a T350T which was found to be just O.K at Bedford Autodrome in standard trim, after fitting a sports back box but not de-catted it would have been refused for sure, it was also rather a tedious noise on long journeys (having said that, the wind noise drone created by the targa panels wasn't helpful!).
I feel sure that I have a noise meter kicking about somewhere in the garage, we used to use it when we were sidecar racing,(Donnington of all places were really strict despite the number of jumbos' taking off and landing less than half a mile away????) I will try to dig it out and get a measurement in the next coupl;e of days, what revs do you want it doing at? if I can bring myself to rev hard not under load!
Hope this is of some help for you.
Andrew
Andrew, if I remember correctly it's 3K / 95dB at the Ring. Would be much appreciated.
One of the Glasgow lads had sports zorsts on the T350 - took them off, since cabin noise was unbearable. And apart from sheep and cows hopping up and down in fields 3 miles away as he went past, he couldn't hear the engine for the zorst.
And you are right about the jumbo's at Donnington - takes a while before you stop instinctively ducking!!
One of the Glasgow lads had sports zorsts on the T350 - took them off, since cabin noise was unbearable. And apart from sheep and cows hopping up and down in fields 3 miles away as he went past, he couldn't hear the engine for the zorst.
And you are right about the jumbo's at Donnington - takes a while before you stop instinctively ducking!!
Edited by rpa.janwell on Thursday 5th October 11:46
This sounds like you have found a way of getting a better soundtrack.
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
phoenix-pete said:
This sounds like you have found a way of getting a better soundtrack.
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
YHM.
phoenix-pete said:
This sounds like you have found a way of getting a better soundtrack.
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
But what about when MOT time comes, is there any way it will pass the emissions test?
Has anyone had the back box off and the internals removed then replaced?
I had my rear box removed and 2 straight through pipes fitted in its place but had it all put back to standard as the noise was embarrasing and not even a nice sound.
Quite fancy having the rear box stripped out.
Any chance of a PM with costs guy's?
I had the rear box removed and it sounded awful, I then had the internals taken out of the rear box and it refitted and that improved it slightly. I then fitted blue flame silencers and that gave it a nice deep tone but it was quiet. So then I removed the back box and kept the blue flame silencers. So now its lond but has a deep tone, and the BF's come with DB killers if I need it turned down.
As you can see it took a bit of work to end up with something that I liked.
Andrew,
I put some CCC pipes on my Sagaris recenlty although it does not make that much difference to the noise level, just pops a little more. I intend as soon as posible to have it de-catted to achieve a deeper sound, which from your post would appear to work. Mine is an April 2006 model, am I likely to suffer the smaller bore intermediate pipes problem? Is there any way I can check before booking the work in to prepare the garage? I have also read that a chip is required to alter the mapping slightly - do you know if this was the case with yourself?
Thanks,
Del
I put some CCC pipes on my Sagaris recenlty although it does not make that much difference to the noise level, just pops a little more. I intend as soon as posible to have it de-catted to achieve a deeper sound, which from your post would appear to work. Mine is an April 2006 model, am I likely to suffer the smaller bore intermediate pipes problem? Is there any way I can check before booking the work in to prepare the garage? I have also read that a chip is required to alter the mapping slightly - do you know if this was the case with yourself?
Thanks,
Del
Edited by Del Boy on Saturday 21st October 15:33
Hi Del,
To determine the intermediate pipe size you will need to get the car off the floor in order to measure the pipes at the point where they join the "cats" I cant be sure but if I remember correctly the inside diameter is 2and a quarter inch for the large bore and 2 and an eighth inch for the small bore, if you get hold of DJC on this forum I'm sure he will be able to tell you the external measurements. With regard to re-mapping, in my case, de-catting has improved the feel and response in all areas, but I have no dyno evidence to give. The sound is spot on, if you mail me from my profile with your e-mail address, I will send a couple of video clips for you to have a listen. hope this helps.
Andrew
To determine the intermediate pipe size you will need to get the car off the floor in order to measure the pipes at the point where they join the "cats" I cant be sure but if I remember correctly the inside diameter is 2and a quarter inch for the large bore and 2 and an eighth inch for the small bore, if you get hold of DJC on this forum I'm sure he will be able to tell you the external measurements. With regard to re-mapping, in my case, de-catting has improved the feel and response in all areas, but I have no dyno evidence to give. The sound is spot on, if you mail me from my profile with your e-mail address, I will send a couple of video clips for you to have a listen. hope this helps.
Andrew
Del Boy said:
Andrew,
I put some CCC pipes on my Sagaris recenlty although it does not make that much difference to the noise level, just pops a little more. I intend as soon as posible to have it de-catted to achieve a deeper sound, which from your post would appear to work. Mine is an April 2006 model, am I likely to suffer the smaller bore intermediate pipes problem? Is there any way I can check before booking the work in to prepare the garage? I have also read that a chip is required to alter the mapping slightly - do you know if this was the case with yourself?
Thanks,
Del
I put some CCC pipes on my Sagaris recenlty although it does not make that much difference to the noise level, just pops a little more. I intend as soon as posible to have it de-catted to achieve a deeper sound, which from your post would appear to work. Mine is an April 2006 model, am I likely to suffer the smaller bore intermediate pipes problem? Is there any way I can check before booking the work in to prepare the garage? I have also read that a chip is required to alter the mapping slightly - do you know if this was the case with yourself?
Thanks,
Del
Edited by Del Boy on Saturday 21st October 15:33
YHM Del.
David,
Thanks for the de-cats, which are now fitted.
The sound is much better and it really pops and bangs which is great. The only thing I'm not too sure about is there appears to be some popping/banging from under the car, which I can feel through the floor when I take my foot of the gas. I think its happening around where the de-cat pipes are.
Does anyone else find this?
Is this a problem I need to sort?
Thanks,
Del
Thanks for the de-cats, which are now fitted.
The sound is much better and it really pops and bangs which is great. The only thing I'm not too sure about is there appears to be some popping/banging from under the car, which I can feel through the floor when I take my foot of the gas. I think its happening around where the de-cat pipes are.
Does anyone else find this?
Is this a problem I need to sort?
Thanks,
Del
sidecar pilot said:
I have just had my Sagaris de-catted.
Many thanks to DJC and Automedon (see "service at Automedon" thread on general TVR stuff and gossip).
Getting the Sag de-catted was not quite as straight forward as initially hoped, it would appear that the Sag has been lumbered with smaller bore intermediate pipes than is ideal, so larger ones needed to be fabricated to release some more power. DJC had the de-cats fabricated and also the larger intermediate pipes and all were fitted last night.
The increase in noise is not as harsh as may be expected, the car sounds deeper and more purposeful, and really howls (in a pleasant way!!) when throttling hard. Cruising at brisk speeds is not offensive or overly intrusive. On the over-run, the pops and crackles are louder and crisper than before.
Performance wise, the car pulls just as cleanly at all throttle openings and does not feel blighted by any flat spots, it also pulls harder and accelerates quicker. This is definately a real difference and not a psychological one because of the "racier" sound track.
If anyone is on the balance of having this done, I would seriously recommend it, the noise difference is not going to make you cringe and get fed up with it, but will guarrantee to put a smile on your face, and of course brisker performance is always good.
Many thanks again to DJC and Dave and Colin at Automedon.
Many thanks to DJC and Automedon (see "service at Automedon" thread on general TVR stuff and gossip).
Getting the Sag de-catted was not quite as straight forward as initially hoped, it would appear that the Sag has been lumbered with smaller bore intermediate pipes than is ideal, so larger ones needed to be fabricated to release some more power. DJC had the de-cats fabricated and also the larger intermediate pipes and all were fitted last night.
The increase in noise is not as harsh as may be expected, the car sounds deeper and more purposeful, and really howls (in a pleasant way!!) when throttling hard. Cruising at brisk speeds is not offensive or overly intrusive. On the over-run, the pops and crackles are louder and crisper than before.
Performance wise, the car pulls just as cleanly at all throttle openings and does not feel blighted by any flat spots, it also pulls harder and accelerates quicker. This is definately a real difference and not a psychological one because of the "racier" sound track.
If anyone is on the balance of having this done, I would seriously recommend it, the noise difference is not going to make you cringe and get fed up with it, but will guarrantee to put a smile on your face, and of course brisker performance is always good.
Many thanks again to DJC and Dave and Colin at Automedon.
Edited by sidecar pilot on Thursday 5th October 10:35
Hi Andrew,
Can you notice any vibration through the floor from popping/banging via the exhaust under the car?
Thanks,
Del
Hi Del,
Sorry for late reply, been away from the p.c.
I suspect David will have explained the root of what you are feeling, I believe that it is probably pops and bangs happening inside the de-cat pipes rather than further back. Mine does this, usually on a trailing throttle at around 2800 - 3000 rpm. I had a Cerb 4.5 with de-cat and sports cans, it was just the same. Hope you are pleased with the result.
Regards
Andrew
Sorry for late reply, been away from the p.c.
I suspect David will have explained the root of what you are feeling, I believe that it is probably pops and bangs happening inside the de-cat pipes rather than further back. Mine does this, usually on a trailing throttle at around 2800 - 3000 rpm. I had a Cerb 4.5 with de-cat and sports cans, it was just the same. Hope you are pleased with the result.
Regards
Andrew
sidecar pilot said:
Hi Del,
Sorry for late reply, been away from the p.c.
I suspect David will have explained the root of what you are feeling, I believe that it is probably pops and bangs happening inside the de-cat pipes rather than further back. Mine does this, usually on a trailing throttle at around 2800 - 3000 rpm. I had a Cerb 4.5 with de-cat and sports cans, it was just the same. Hope you are pleased with the result.
Regards
Andrew
Sorry for late reply, been away from the p.c.
I suspect David will have explained the root of what you are feeling, I believe that it is probably pops and bangs happening inside the de-cat pipes rather than further back. Mine does this, usually on a trailing throttle at around 2800 - 3000 rpm. I had a Cerb 4.5 with de-cat and sports cans, it was just the same. Hope you are pleased with the result.
Regards
Andrew
Thanks Andrew.
I had already sent you an email. Your description is exactly the same for me, basically when I take my foot off the gas and at that rev level (3000 - 3500), I can feel the popping and banging further up the exhaust too, I beleive exactly where the de-cats are, under the footwell. I presume in fact that the passenger side will be worse as they seemed further to this side when the car was on the ramp.
I'm no car expert and was simply a little worried the exhaust was put back too near the underneath of the car. I now know this is the case.
I love the new sound, exactly as you previously stated, not terribly different when idling, but screams when you put your foot down. The popping and banging in between gear changes and when you take your foot off the gas is great. Exactly what I wanted.
I can not feel any problems with power either.
Thanks again for your help and time.
Del
DJC - Many thanks for sending the de-cats so quickly to Castle TVR, much appreciated. Very competitive price too!
If you want your Sagaris louder, I recommend anyone has a de-cat!
Edited by Del Boy on Monday 30th October 11:22
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