T350T - Best pick?

[Horse_Apple]

I've allways liked the look of this car and prefer it vahstly to the Sag, which is just too aggressive for me.

The big issue is that I've never really investigated this model too heavily as I've had the Griff for 12 years and never felt a huge desire to replace it.

Someone recently pointed out that T350Ts could now be bout for around the £25-£30K mark and so I'm seriously considering changing the old Griff.

The real questions are as follows:

The Griff spends most of its time sitting in the garage and is mainly used at weekends during the summer. Is this kind of useage going to be a problem with the T350?

Secondly, Were their different engine specs? I see ads for Red Roses etc and would be very grateful if someone could educate me on this.

TIA.

[icraigmy]

I treat my Tamora like this (same engine as T350) and have not had any problems so far.

[Ricardo Bertone]

Officially there was a standard 3.6 (350bhp) and a 'red rose' option - still 3.6 (375bhp) BUT the factory also produced a handful of T350s with the 4.0 Sagaris spec engine (405bhp) - some may have been Ts.

Ricardo

[Horse_Apple]

Thanks.

What you have just said is very interesting as my ultimate preference would be for a Sag engine in the T350 body.

Is the performance difference between the two cars (std T350 v Sag) dramatic?

H_A

[Daftlad]

Horse_Apple said:

Thanks.

What you have just said is very interesting as my ultimate preference would be for a Sag engine in the T350 body.

Is the performance difference between the two cars (std T350 v Sag) dramatic?

H_A

I dont think TVR have ever built a T350 with a Sagaris engine (they may have modified after failures). I know TVR may have built some with 390 bhp red rose 4.0 engines.

The handling difference is quite noticable. The Sagaris being a nicer dialy drive (IMHO) with more compliant suspension.

On a circuit, again, the Sagaris is the more predictable car.

I went from T350 to my Sagaris by a protracted route. My choice was a 4.0 engined T350 with Bilstein suspension, CR box and RR brakes - the factory started the build but changed their mind late in the build.

I opted for a dealer stock Sagaris and have no regrets.

[Ricardo Bertone]

There are several T350s which were fitted with Sagaris spec 4.0 Sp6s by the factory - FACT! I'm not sure if any were T350Ts though.

Ricardo

[Horse_Apple]

Off to have a look at a T350T tomorrow. Will also be finding out what the dealer reckons the Griff is worth.

[Ricardo Bertone]

Regardless of the relative values of your Griffith and the T350T now ,in five years time the Griffith will be worth more than the T350T! Something to ponder on.

Ricardo

[tail slide]

Ricardo Bertone said:

Regardless of the relative values of your Griffith and the T350T now ,in five years time the Griffith will be worth more than the T350T! Something to ponder on.

Ricardo

In your opinion.


..which is hard to justify, in my opinion


....after several years' ownership of both models.

Both have great strengths & a few weaknesses, but overall T350 is on a higher plane altogether as a modern sports car.

[Ricardo Bertone]

In the same way an XJS was on a higher plane altogether than the E Type perhaps.

[tail slide]

Might be an idea to try one before slagging off.

[Ricardo Bertone]

Sorry Tailslide

I'm not slagging off anything - far far from it - I have driven several T350s and I agree with you that they are fantastic machines - you're contorting my posts.

I just made the point that the Griffith, being the model that defined TVR during their golden years, is likely to be in greatest demand in future.

Ricardo

[Daftlad]

Ricardo Bertone said:

There are several T350s which were fitted with Sagaris spec 4.0 Sp6s by the factory - FACT! I'm not sure if any were T350Ts though.

Ricardo

There were several T350 sbuilt with 4.0 Tuscan S and 4.0 red rose engines. The Sagaris started life in March 2005 and a Sagaris spec engine was poor value for money. I'm not sure youre correct in your forceful assumption.

[Ricardo Bertone]

Hi Daftlad

You seem knowledgeable about this topic. Perhaps you can explain - What's the differences between a Tuscan S 4.0, a Red Rose 4.0 and a Sagaris 4.0 engine?

The official factory option for the T350 was only a 3.6 Red Rose. The factory described the unofficial 4.0 engines as Sagaris 4.0 with 405 bhp (pinch of salt)- I believe there were at least five such T350 beasts - a friend of mine had one of them out of the factory.

Ricardo

[Daftlad]

Ricardo Bertone said:

Hi Daftlad

You seem knowledgeable about this topic. Perhaps you can explain - What's the differences between a Tuscan S 4.0, a Red Rose 4.0 and a Sagaris 4.0 engine?

The official factory option for the T350 was only a 3.6 Red Rose. The factory described the unofficial 4.0 engines as Sagaris 4.0 with 405 bhp (pinch of salt)- I believe there were at least five such T350 beasts - a friend of mine had one of them out of the factory.

Ricardo

I detect a sarcastic tone…however, lets go with it.

I have an understanding of when cars were built. I would suggest that the majority of the 6 or so cars T cars built with the higher output 4.0 engines were built before March 2005, so being pedantic, they would not, and were not have been described as Sagaris engines. I know of only one car that was in built after that time and was destined for a well known PHr in Italy. I may of course be mis-informed.

High output 4.0 engines varied in output from a quoted 380 bhp to 406 bhp. I don't think power figures in specific vehicles were considered but I am aware that restrictive exhaust systems would have played a part in stunting power output of these engines when fitted to T cars. Would an identical engine from a Sagaris when fitted to a T car make the same rear wheel BHP? I dont think so.

Do they really differ? It’s anyone’s guess.

You ask if I know the difference between an early high output engine and a late high output engine? No, not specifics, but I would guess better internal components, maybe variations in mapping, valve timing and probably crucially, a better understanding of the engine and attention to detail during build.

As matter of interest, why do you think 405 bhp for a Sagaris engine, in a Sagaris is a pinch of salt type figure. What makes you think the figure is not entirely reasonable for something that were properly bedded in?

Edited by Daftlad on Saturday 4th November 12:04

[tail slide]

Daftlad said:

As matter of interest, why do you think 405 bhp for a Sagaris engine, in a Sagaris is a pinch of salt type figure. What makes you think the figure is not entirely reasonable for something that were properly bedded in?

A very valid point - Autocar etc ALWAYS show 5%-7% power gains for 4-v per cylinder engines on their long-term cars from Golfs to exotics, when re-dyno testing after fully run in at 20k+ miles.

[Daftlad]

tail slide said:

Daftlad said:

As matter of interest, why do you think 405 bhp for a Sagaris engine, in a Sagaris is a pinch of salt type figure. What makes you think the figure is not entirely reasonable for something that were properly bedded in?

A very valid point - Autocar etc ALWAYS show 5%-7% power gains for 4-v per cylinder engines on their long-term cars from Golfs to exotics, when re-dyno testing after fully run in at 20k+ miles.

Indeed, another 15K miles on the Saga lout and I should be getting closer to you on the hills........are you getting worried yet
















No?..........thought not

[Ricardo Bertone]

Hi Daftlad

No sarcasism at all intended (must be my accent)- just a thirst for knowledge re. all things TVR - after all if we can't establish facts now on the eve of closure we have no hope in the future of separating fact from fiction.

I find your comments very informative and helpful - from memory my friend's T350C was delivered with the Sagaris engine just after the Sagaris was launched - so it would make sense (TVR sense) to use the same engine unit. Anyway TVR told him it was the Sagaris engine.

I questioned the 405bhp figure purely because TVR themselves subsequently lowered the quoted bhp figure for the Sagaris - I think down to 380BHP. I do appreciate that exhaust system differences between the Sagaris and T350 would alter that figure and that engines improve when bedded in, etc.

Perhaps some of the owners of the other Sagaris-engined T350s can add to this discussion topic.

Ricardo

[Daftlad]

Ricardo Bertone said:

Hi Daftlad
I questioned the 405bhp figure purely because TVR themselves subsequently lowered the quoted bhp figure for the Sagaris - I think down to 380BHP.

Ricardo,
Did you consider that the engines quoted at 406 bhp may differ to those quoted as 380 bhp in some minor way?

I should be able to report soon.

John

[Ricardo Bertone]

I thought it might be because certain car mags such as EVO were now putting road test cars on a rolling road - for example, the press Tuscan 2 Convertible made appreciably less bhp and lbft on their rolling road than the figures quoted by TVR.

Ricardo