Who drives a GAZ in his Sag ?

[FrankS.]

I´m thinking about getting a set of GAZ Gold for
my TIV but who knows if it´ll be better then the original Bilstein ?

cheers
Frank

[TVR_owner]

FrankS. said:

I´m thinking about getting a set of GAZ Gold for
my TIV but who knows if it´ll be better then the original Bilstein ?

cheers
Frank

Frank,
Only an opinion and I am happy to be corrected.

GAZ - Budget shock probably designed genericaly for "TVRs".

Bilstein - Quality shock designed specifically for the Sagaris.

I suspect not that the answer is they will not be better.

Why do you feel the need to change to adjustable shocks??

[FrankS.]

I like to spend some money to bring up the economy again
and of course I like to improve my car a bit.

But I only want to change to the GAZ if there´s a real improvement compared to the original.

Unfortunately I don´t have any experience with the Gaz products ...

[TVR_owner]

FrankS. said:

I like to spend some money to bring up the economy again
and of course I like to improve my car a bit.

But I only want to change to the GAZ if there´s a real improvement compared to the original.

Unfortunately I don´t have any experience with the Gaz products ...

I applaud your efforts to turn-around the economy. I dont think you will be improving the car though...

[FrankS.]

TVR_owner said:

I applaud your efforts to turn-around the economy. I dont think you will be improving the car though...

that´s what i needed to know
thx

[Tangoed]

I've heard the car with bilstein shocks is pretty well sorted. Nitrons are not the way to go either. But getting the car set up is worth the money, geo and shocks adjusted.

[bogie]

Tangoed said:

I've heard the car with bilstein shocks is pretty well sorted. Nitrons are not the way to go either. But getting the car set up is worth the money, geo and shocks adjusted.

I agree - theres a lot of bull about brands and "this brand is better than that brand"

In reality, if you have 3 quality shock absorber manufacturers, all of them could make you a good, adjustable shock/spring package for a Sagaris

what you want to pay for is development time - is there an aftermarket manufacturer that has worked with someone to develop a shock/spring kit for a Sag for road or track day use ? then Id go with that one ...maybe theyd have a demo car

buying some shocks with someones best guess spring/valve rates is no better than the factory set-up, except you may have some one way adjustablilty within a given range ...thats about it

so Id take my car somewhere thats used to setting up TVRs for competition or such like, select a shock manufacturer willing to work with you on valving/springs and see what they come up with. This was done by a couple of places I know with Nitron, in Elise/Exige world quite some years back - Nitron went on to be the most popular aftermarket supplier for those cars - thats what is needed here ...of course getting someone to spend a few weeks doing it, for a market of 150 cars is the tricky bit, but if you want to fund your own set-up there are many places that will do it for you

[Tangoed]

I beleave TVR Power have someone able to set up the car, for track/road use.
They do come recommended.

[Ab Shocks]

TVR_owner said:

FrankS. said:

I´m thinking about getting a set of GAZ Gold for
my TIV but who knows if it´ll be better then the original Bilstein ?

cheers
Frank

GAZ - Budget shock probably designed genericaly for "TVRs".

I suspect not that the answer is they will not be better.

Why do you feel the need to change to adjustable shocks??

I'll answer the question why you might want to upgrade to an adjustable shock, because the Sag is not the best drive in the world on crap roads, it is great on track however.

I have had the pleasure of setting up several cars and tested a few spring/damper combinations, not just thrown a generic kit on a car.

The fact is that the Saggy can be made better mannered with an adjustable kit (including Gaz) on B roads and then turned up for those who want to trackday, making it more flexible.

BTW I also have sold 100+ non generic kits for the VX's too

Edited by Ab Shocks on Friday 13th March 22:16

[Ab Shocks]

Tangoed said:

I beleave TVR Power have someone able to set up the car, for track/road use.
They do come recommended.

Yeah, Wayne is great, trained by Steve Guglielmi.
I also commend Brian at Topcats and Andy at APM

Edited by Ab Shocks on Friday 13th March 22:19

[TVR_owner]

Ab Shocks said:

TVR_owner said:

FrankS. said:

I´m thinking about getting a set of GAZ Gold for
my TIV but who knows if it´ll be better then the original Bilstein ?

cheers
Frank

GAZ - Budget shock probably designed genericaly for "TVRs".

I suspect not that the answer is they will not be better.

Why do you feel the need to change to adjustable shocks??

I'll answer the question why you might want to upgrade to an adjustable shock, because the Sag is not the best drive in the world on crap roads, it is great on track however.

I have had the pleasure of setting up several cars and tested a few spring/damper combinations, not just thrown a generic kit on a car.

The fact is that the Saggy can be made better mannered with an adjustable kit (including Gaz) on B roads and then turned up for those who want to trackday, making it more flexible.

BTW I also have sold 100+ non generic kits for the VX's too

Edited by Ab Shocks on Friday 13th March 22:16

A non adjustable shock absorber is a compromise, a good quality designed for the job non-adjustable shock absorber with the correct spring rates will suit most purposes most of the time. Take extremes and you can't play with settings to suit, obviously, any adjustable shock you can.

So I try and understand the benefits of adjustable shocks. I also try understand the difference between change and upgrade. I sometimes get it wrong as we all do.

My suggestion was that changing the original Billies to Gaz Gold is a change rather than an upgrade - its what I belive and I honsetly dont think I got it wrong. Change from standard Billies to correctly developed Ohlins or something of a decent quality (combined with a geo set-up to suit your driving) and I would agree it's an upgrade.

But seriously, why would you want to put cheap end of the market shocks (other than because they are adjustable) on a car like a Sagaris. Out of intrest, how many sets of Gaz Golds to you fit to GT3 RS Porsches?

Edited by TVR_owner on Saturday 14th March 07:54

[Ab Shocks]

TVR_owner said:

But seriously, why would you want to put cheap end of the market shocks (other than because they are adjustable) on a car like a Sagaris. Out of intrest, how many sets of Gaz Golds to you fit to GT3 RS Porsches?

Edited by TVR_owner on Saturday 14th March 07:54

Yes I would, as I said not everybody is happy with the standard Saggy suspension, yes I am also an Ohlins fan but I wouldn't bother with single adjustable kits if I was going that route because I don't think performance levels warrant the price difference and before you ask, I have taken Gaz Gold off a Cerbera and put on single adjustable Ohlins. Would you be interested in the owners reaction?

It may also come as a surprise for you to learn that the Porsche Cup series cars are very keen on Gaz, albeit that they run the remote canister version.

[bogie]

so were back to the brand x is more expensive therefore must be better type stuff

personally I would put money on a well developed Gaz kit, being being much better than an "off the shelf" best guess Ohlins kit ...regardless of differences in construction/quality/price/whatever

Ive never had Gaz, only Bilsteins and Nitrons (other than OEM of course), but they were not comparable either, as the Billies were off the shelf, non adjustable, just a "sports" kit and the Nitrons were an Elise specific one way kit, with spring rates recommended to me by a friend who races Elises

Id never bother with more than 1-way for a road/trackday car with an amateur owner - unless you are a trained chassis engineer you will be paying for adjusability that you wont have a clue to set up, and the chances of mucking things up are almost certain LOL

So get a 1 way kit, thats well developed on the Sag, with an adjustable range that goes from comfy road car to trackday car...thats what Id get - I find the stock Sag too hard for bumpy B road blasting, and too soft for real hard track use, as with any road car on stock suspension - its a compromise

[T450t]

bogie said:

so were back to the brand x is more expensive therefore must be better type stuff

personally I would put money on a well developed Gaz kit, being being much better than an "off the shelf" best guess Ohlins kit ...regardless of differences in construction/quality/price/whatever

Ive never had Gaz, only Bilsteins and Nitrons (other than OEM of course), but they were not comparable either, as the Billies were off the shelf, non adjustable, just a "sports" kit and the Nitrons were an Elise specific one way kit, with spring rates recommended to me by a friend who races Elises

Id never bother with more than 1-way for a road/trackday car with an amateur owner - unless you are a trained chassis engineer you will be paying for adjusability that you wont have a clue to set up, and the chances of mucking things up are almost certain LOL

So get a 1 way kit, thats well developed on the Sag, with an adjustable range that goes from comfy road car to trackday car...thats what Id get - I find the stock Sag too hard for bumpy B road blasting, and too soft for real hard track use, as with any road car on stock suspension - its a compromise

Mark

Fiddling is all part of the fun, that's why we are TVR owners. Getting somebody to put it right after "mucking it up" is also the proper way forward, how else does one learn. Its surprising how quickly you picks thing up when its your car and your life.

1 way dampers. Not for me. Everyone to there own.

[bogie]

each to their own as you say - I like to drive more than fiddle/tinker with my cars...Ive been frustrated before on track days just not "getting it right" with 1 way dampers, let alone 3 ways LOL

Im lazy - I must admit I did like the Lotus idea, what they did with some of the first limited edition Exiges with 3 way Ohlins ....a list was provided in the boot of preferred settings for about a dozen popular UK circuits, so you just had to turn up, have a little twiddle and away you went .....thats would be enough for me thanks

[Ab Shocks]

bogie said:

so were back to the brand x is more expensive therefore must be better type stuff

personally I would put money on a well developed Gaz kit, being being much better than an "off the shelf" best guess Ohlins kit ...regardless of differences in construction/quality/price/whatever

Ive never had Gaz, only Bilsteins and Nitrons (other than OEM of course), but they were not comparable either, as the Billies were off the shelf, non adjustable, just a "sports" kit and the Nitrons were an Elise specific one way kit, with spring rates recommended to me by a friend who races Elises

Id never bother with more than 1-way for a road/trackday car with an amateur owner - unless you are a trained chassis engineer you will be paying for adjusability that you wont have a clue to set up, and the chances of mucking things up are almost certain LOL

So get a 1 way kit, thats well developed on the Sag, with an adjustable range that goes from comfy road car to trackday car...thats what Id get - I find the stock Sag too hard for bumpy B road blasting, and too soft for real hard track use, as with any road car on stock suspension - its a compromise

Good points, yes I agree that decently valved twintube shocks with a matched up set of springs will out perform off the shelf 1 way monotubes because the sweet spot on monotubes is small.
I recently had a dissagreement with a well known monotube manufacturer over valving and I asked if they had ever been in a TVR and they shamelessly said no. My response was unprintable.

There are cases when only a monotube will do, gravel rally for one and a well set up monotube will give a better low speed bump performance to those in the know but most of the aftermarket monotube manufacturers are low volume producers and do rather overcook their pricing IMHO, considering component costs and build time. Somebody might be pricking that bubble soon

[TVR_owner]

bogie said:

so were back to the brand x is more expensive therefore must be better type stuff

Mark, that's certainly not I was suggesting and its not something I belive either

bogie said:

personally I would put money on a well developed Gaz kit, being being much better than an "off the shelf" best guess Ohlins kit ...regardless of differences in construction/quality/price/whatever

And so would I, but I'm not sure anyone suggested using an off the shelf best guess kit

bogie said:

I find the stock Sag too soft for real hard track use

You must be a real hard track day fanatic then - or your car was in need set-up? Quite suprised given you can find what you belive to be a limiting factor of a Sagaris on a track day that you are happy with 1-way adjustables - having said that, I know what you mean about too many settings and mucking up the ride. I too am not a chassis engineer but am more than able to make a mess of a good set up because I had too many options . Back to zero and start again!

I chose to work with Nitron on my race car to get shocks and springs to suit, and have a 3 way adjustable set-up. I now have a good start point (with the help of others) for many circuits that I can tweek - but then I don't have to drive it home.

Ab Shocks said:

It may also come as a surprise for you to learn that the Porsche Cup series cars are very keen on Gaz, albeit that they run the remote canister version.

It wouldnt come as a shock (pardon pun) as I have followed many of the cup rounds home and abroad, but it would suprise me if anyone had fitted GAZ Golds to a GT3 RS, which was the car and the shock I referred to.

I'm certainly not having a pop at GAZ, not having a pop at GAZ golds per se. I just happen to beleive that the standard springs and shocks on a Sagaris make for a better car than the option being suggested and therefore I did not see the GAZ Gold fittment as an "upgrade"

Very much horses for courses etc and mine is just a one sided opinion based upon my experience of a Sagaris with standard springs and shocks and what others (that I respect) think of the lower end of the GAZ range available.

If I'm wrong and I rob anyone of an out of body experience (or business), I genuinely apologise.

Edited by TVR_owner on Sunday 15th March 07:49

[Ab Shocks]

Sorry to come back so late on this one guys but you probably know the feeling when somebody makes a statement that is patently so wrong that you want to scream at them but think of the response a couple of days later.

This is one of those times.

John, you have spent the best part of four thousand pounds putting 3 way shocks on your car, Mickey Greenstar put £300 worth of Gaz nickels on his Wedge. I bet he carries corner speed just as well as you can and the shocks have been on the car for at least two seasons without any problems.
BTW there is a Tammy racing on Gaz Gold Pro shocks this season I believe and I bet that goes OK as well.

Over engineering is no bad thing but for road cars or short duration sprint racing, I would consider less expensive options and pocket the difference. Tobago is nice this time of year.

Edited by Ab Shocks on Tuesday 17th March 05:28

Edited by Ab Shocks on Tuesday 17th March 05:30

[TVR_owner]

Ab Shocks said:

Sorry to come back so late on this one guys but you probably know the feeling when somebody makes a statement that is patently so wrong that you want to scream at them but think of the response a couple of days later.

This is one of those times.

John, you have spent the best part of four thousand pounds putting 3 way shocks on your car, Mickey Greenstar put £300 worth of Gaz nickels on his Wedge. I bet he carries corner speed just as well as you can and the shocks have been on the car for at least two seasons without any problems.
BTW there is a Tammy racing on Gaz Gold Pro shocks this season I believe and I bet that goes OK as well.

I don't want to scream at you Derek, but I did not spend the best part of £4000 on my shocks.

As for the comparsion with a different car, well if you think thats a valid comparson, I'm just a punter and not in a position to challenge the relative merits of different products on very different cars.

Like I said, I dont have a problem with GAZ products, and I did apologise if I'd caused any harm. Maybe that wasn't enough and you still feel the need to prove a point?

Edited by TVR_owner on Tuesday 17th March 08:31

[900T-R]

I don't know about that - my Chimmie is a road car, but £2K worth of Intrax suspension has transformed it by far more than what £2K worth of engine or braking mods would achieve. The adjustability doesn't do anything for me because I'm not going to scr*w with settings that have been carefully selected for the application and validated on the car during setting up, but the sheer composure added over the cheaper solutions that I've experienced (which offer improved body control in corners especially at the rear, but still exhibit a fair bit of 'crash, bang and wallop') makes an appreciable difference on the road. I must assume the secondary ride characteristics are helped no end by the lower unsprung weight and internal friction the Intrax' (1K2 Black Titan) offer. Maybe not so important on a smooth(ish) track but vital on your average B-road.

Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 17th March 06:32