Transforming a T350 into a Sagaris

[stimshady]

As far as i know the Sagaris is basically a 'T350 on steroids', obviously there are some external differences which would be difficult to reproduce, but could you effectively make a T350 have the same 'internals' and effectively drive, handle and perform the same or is there more beneath the skin which has changed. I am aware that the Sag has a larger engine (as standard) and better suspension etc, but presumable all this stuff can be changed on the T350 (nitrons, upgraded Power lump etc).

As long as the chassis is the same, then surely it must be possible?

[thainy77]

I think the Sag has got a wider rear track.

[bogie]

of course - anything is possible

but cost wise, it will be much cheaper to sell a 350 and just buy a Sagaris

[Englishman]

It is a different chassis - that is why it handles better! Lots for reviews from the time explaining the differences.

[grumbledoak]

I don't believe the basic chassis is different (happy to be corrected) but various mounting points are different and the track is wider, so your tyres would foul on the T350s bodywork.

Not worth trying seems to be the consensus.

[Englishman]

I'm not an insider but from Autocar:

'But it’s the chassis, arguably, that makes the biggest leap forward. There are double unequal-length wishbones at each corner and predictably vast ventilated disc brakes front and rear, but the springs are more than two times stiffer than any previous TVR’s and mark a radical change in suspension philosophy.'

And Evo:

'With the exception of the four-seat Cerbera, where it was four inches longer, the chassis underneath all modern TVRs has been almost identical in dimension and specification - including the original Griffith and the race Tuscan. The Sagaris's main structure is similar but slightly wider at the front and rear suspension pick-up points in order to create some extra track for the racers.'

[grumbledoak]

I believe that the I-frame is the same but the pick-up points were moved.

Knowing me, an insider will be along shortly to make me look stupid.

[_DeeJay_]

grumbledoak said:

I believe that the I-frame is the same but the pick-up points were moved.

Knowing me, an insider will be along shortly to make me look stupid.

I thought the chassis of the later t350's and the Saggy were identical with multiple pick up points to allow different wishbones to be used on each model.

The larger wishbones widened both the front and rear of the Saggy. The shocks and springs were also tuned by the shock manufacturers specifically for the Saggy to improve handling.

However, the wider track wouldn't fit under the narrower arches of a t350 so you'd need to modify the bodywork too.

In short.... buy a Sagaris if you want one, or pay more converting a t350 whilst devaluing in the process.

[tail slide]

stimshady said:

... but could you effectively make a T350 have the same 'internals' and effectively drive, handle and perform the same ..

A T350 is little different from a Sag to drive anyway, once just the springs & dampers are upgraded (and geometry checked).

The factory were pushing the 4-litre and RR-optioned T350 option to me when I ordered mine in late '03 and early '04, then they stopped offering the 4-litre. I drove a Sag and my T350 back to back a year later and decided they were so little different to drive I wouldn't change. But appearance-wise both are great in different ways IMO.

The different suspension pick-up points and longer-acting bumpstops make a slight difference, and slightly larger RR brakes are fitted to the Sag, but then again the brakes aren't noticeably different on the road, and neither are the slightly wider tyres. On trackdays they're pretty identical too (once suspension upgraded).

Plus the biggie is obviously the more torquey 4-litre engine. Slightly quicker but different in character. Although I now have a 4-litre, personally I'm not sure I'd change away from the higher-revving manic 3.6 if choosing again.

Edited by tail slide on Friday 15th May 20:30

[Targarama]

There is a difference between making a T350 travel along a selected route/track as well as a Sagaris and actually physically making the T350 like a Sagaris from an undercarriage point of view. The former is possible. The latter is not worth doing - buy a Sagaris.

Edited by Targarama on Friday 15th May 21:48

[sidewayz]

I agree with all the good advice above,if you want a Saggy the cheapest route is to buy one.But do you want a Saggy?The T350 is a great car and you can make it as quick as a Saggy by one of the reputable engine upgrades now available ( and personally I am very happy with Power's 4.3)and also significantly upgrade the handling and ride by improving the dampers,wheels and tyres. The combined effect is remarkable.

[tail slide]

sidewayz said:

I agree with all the good advice above,if you want a Saggy the cheapest route is to buy one.But do you want a Saggy?The T350 is a great car and you can make it as quick as a Saggy by one of the reputable engine upgrades now available ( and personally I am very happy with Power's 4.3)and also significantly upgrade the handling and ride by improving the dampers,wheels and tyres. The combined effect is remarkable.

Now that's an attractive upgrade.

Run in yet so you can unleash the beastie, sidewayz?

[sidewayz]

Oh yes!

It's ballistic.Lot's of torque as you would expect and pulls very strongly up untill 4k then it all goes a bit mental! I took it out last weekend to a quiet stretch of road that runs beside a motorway near here so I could play with acceleration times.It's just so much faster its a hoot-no idea of what the times are as I don't have one of those in car jobbies but subjectively its noticably faster than my old Tuscan S. very glad I upgraded the tyres and wheels as well. Felt very stable and when it squirmed a bit,as it does,it was easy to control.
Highly recommended!


Now my passenger,he nearly had an in car jobbie...

Edited by sidewayz on Saturday 16th May 09:58

[tail slide]

That sounds like my kind of childish fun!

Lots of torque that can overwhelm the tyres was a great recipe in my V8 Ginetta, but pretty safe as you still have good grip for cornering and braking.

[ninetynine]

yes it can be done see my profile

Edited by ninetynine on Monday 18th May 18:38

[Chimjunkie]

ninetynine said:

yes it can be done see my profile

Edited by ninetynine on Monday 18th May 18:38

Now that is just a stunning car. Saw Plasicman crafting away on this. Cant wait to see it with paint on Will have to venture over to the Cambs meet. Unless you can show it off at the Herts and Beds sometime? Please....

Edited by Chimjunkie on Monday 18th May 20:42

[TVR_owner]

ninetynine said:

yes it can be done see my profile

Edited by ninetynine on Monday 18th May 18:38

Appealing though the conversion maybe, the original poster asked if a T350 could be transformed into a Sagaris - not if a Tamora could be changed into something unique.

[stimshady]

yes, i wouldnt really want to start cutting holes in my T350 (although Plasticman has done an amazing job on that Tamora) - it was more of a case of getting it to 'feel' the same and perform the same as a Sag... (i am happy with the looks of the T350!)