First drive a in MK1 Tuscan S
Discussion
Had the pleasure of a drive in one of the above on monday and was very very impressed not only with the acceleration from it, but also the handling was far better than I had imagined even in slightly damp conditions and with the standard shocks on it.
Acceleration seemed even quicker than the sag! Which is saying something, And although all Tuscan S models are reputed to have a cr box this car didn't appear to have one, Although it felt just about perfect without one, I know a few people on here have made the move from Tusc s to sag! Just wondering if the Tusc is generally quicker still.
Had a chat with Richard from Track v road who was saying that he has driven all the Tvr range extensively and reckons the Tusc S is the daddy! After my little drive i think he may be right.
Still prefer to keep my Sag though.
Acceleration seemed even quicker than the sag! Which is saying something, And although all Tuscan S models are reputed to have a cr box this car didn't appear to have one, Although it felt just about perfect without one, I know a few people on here have made the move from Tusc s to sag! Just wondering if the Tusc is generally quicker still.
Had a chat with Richard from Track v road who was saying that he has driven all the Tvr range extensively and reckons the Tusc S is the daddy! After my little drive i think he may be right.
Still prefer to keep my Sag though.
yes, it's true, Tuscan S are the best!!
I'm completely unbiased as you can see from my profile!!!
Having said that, when I went to test drive a TVR in '05, I went to drive a Sagaris, and then drove the Tuscan S afterwards and much preferred it, so went down that route. They are all stunning cars - Sag or Tuscan S, though.
Richard.
I'm completely unbiased as you can see from my profile!!!
Having said that, when I went to test drive a TVR in '05, I went to drive a Sagaris, and then drove the Tuscan S afterwards and much preferred it, so went down that route. They are all stunning cars - Sag or Tuscan S, though.
Richard.
Given the choice the Sag every day 
I Have been fortunate to have owned both cars, Tuscan S for 5 years & Sagaris for 3 years. Both superb cars. However, the Tuscan S was quicker. Both cars were predominantly used on track.
A simple comparison at Croft track, Tuscan S had standard suspension, CR box with 3.73 diff & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap time 1:34.1
Sagaris, standard suspension no CR box 3.43 diff with Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:39.2
Both car timed with Racelogic track day box.
Sagaris with uprated suspension Nitron 3 ways with Eibach springs (set up By F1 mechanic at Silverstone), Mintex F4 pads, CR box with 3.91 diff, quicker steering & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:33.8
I'm certain a Tuscan S with the latter Sagaris set up would easily shave 2 seconds off minimum to around 1:32. If i ever had another TVR it would be an S with the above spec
Anyway, both cars are superb & adore both, The Tuscan S is quicker alround especially in a straight line & a greater top speed too...
Another quick comparison the Tuscan 2 (not an S) & Sagaris at the Top Gear track a few years ago there was only 0.2 of a second differance in favour of the Sagaris. An S used would have eclipsed the Sagaris time.
A simple comparison at Croft track, Tuscan S had standard suspension, CR box with 3.73 diff & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap time 1:34.1
Sagaris, standard suspension no CR box 3.43 diff with Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:39.2
Both car timed with Racelogic track day box.
Sagaris with uprated suspension Nitron 3 ways with Eibach springs (set up By F1 mechanic at Silverstone), Mintex F4 pads, CR box with 3.91 diff, quicker steering & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:33.8
I'm certain a Tuscan S with the latter Sagaris set up would easily shave 2 seconds off minimum to around 1:32. If i ever had another TVR it would be an S with the above spec
Anyway, both cars are superb & adore both, The Tuscan S is quicker alround especially in a straight line & a greater top speed too...
Another quick comparison the Tuscan 2 (not an S) & Sagaris at the Top Gear track a few years ago there was only 0.2 of a second differance in favour of the Sagaris. An S used would have eclipsed the Sagaris time.
shaunsmith said:
Another quick comparison the Tuscan 2 (not an S) & Sagaris at the Top Gear track a few years ago there was only 0.2 of a second differance in favour of the Sagaris. An S used would have eclipsed the Sagaris time.
Shaun,I have a Tuscan 4.0 (not S). No way those times are representative of standard cars
. Rebound on the Tuscan 2 front shocks is all over the place and it hampers progress on track - I don't car if you're called the Stig or the Pig...
How's the new toy btw?
TVR_owner said:
shaunsmith said:
Another quick comparison the Tuscan 2 (not an S) & Sagaris at the Top Gear track a few years ago there was only 0.2 of a second differance in favour of the Sagaris. An S used would have eclipsed the Sagaris time.
Shaun,I have a Tuscan 4.0 (not S). No way those times are representative of standard cars
. Rebound on the Tuscan 2 front shocks is all over the place and it hampers progress on track - I don't car if you're called the Stig or the Pig...
How's the new toy btw?
The times for the Tuscan & Sagaris were standard cars apart from having Pirelli Corsa's on only & the Tuscan was fresh from a new chip & rolling road by TVR Power.
When I changed my S to the Sagaris in 2006 I was astonished & dissapointed by the differance in performance which was vast. In addition, the suspension was too soft. With Richard at HHC upgrades were carried out all over the car as mentioned earlier which closely followed what you had done to your Sagaris minus the Nitrons, only then was the Sagaris was marginally quicker around Croft than the standard Tuscan S... How do you explain that then & the huge differance in lap times plus I weighed a stone & half less during Sagaris ownership so it wasn't 'Pies'? It would have been very interesting to have had my S up against your Sagaris...
A friend of mine who was a more than extremely capable driver had a Red Rose Tuscan who used to go to Croft with me regulary, he changed to a Sagaris in 05 when they came out. Who was dismayed by the margin his Sagaris was walloped by my S, when for more then 2 years we were almost identical in the 2 Tuscans mine being slightly quicker again around Croft. He was adamant my S had been 'tricked up' which it hadn't. He shortly after sold the Sagaris.
I'm pleasantly shocked you have a Tuscan 2, I thought the suspension/handling issues were addressed on the 2? Have you still got your 'Panzer'?
Looking back it stunned me how fast the Tuscan S was when I first got my Sagaris in comparison when considering they have the same engine or really the Sagaris had a so called better engine version set up the lot than my S had. With a smile, my Tuscan did near 40 track days including over 20 at Croft, Silverstone GP, 2 Ring visits etc during my ownership with only a head gasket failure in that time only (15K miles) nearly all track miles including driving to them it had a hard life but was well looked after & maintained regardless.
Stood still the Sagaris looks faster in reality it wasn't & isn't. The Sagaris is a wonderfull an amazing looking car but to me it needed a more potent version of the Speed Six engine to differentiate from all the other Speed Six cars with my experience with both cars, which really I tried to do which was sadly aborted earlier this year. I miss both cars considerably as it is the first time I have been TVRless in 12 years. finally, the build quility of the Sagaris was far superior to the Tuscan was & nicer to drive probably too but for sheer pace & exitement the Tuscan S is the car I reveered & miss most...
New toy has just come back from Surface & Design with full colour change from Red to TVR Reflex Charcoal. The LS3 with Procharger etc are being re-installed this month then off To TVR Power for mapping etc in January to completion. The Ultima wont replace TVR for me as hopefully soon I will have another depending on finances...
Catch up next year
Shaun
Hi Shaun,
I didn't for one minute doubt the times you stated for your cars
it was the factory cars given to Top Gear that I was suggesting were not representative.
I bought the Tuscan as a user and it is nice in everyday use, but when it did stray onto a race track it was found wanting - maybe I was comparing it to my race car and thats not fair, but it inspired little or no confiddence coming off the brakes before turning in. It's now resident in my garage cos the weathers crap....so much for it being an everyday car!
Still got the RS6 for now, but the Pork has gone.
Glad the Ultima is coming on and look forward to seeing it used in anger next year.
I didn't for one minute doubt the times you stated for your cars
it was the factory cars given to Top Gear that I was suggesting were not representative.I bought the Tuscan as a user and it is nice in everyday use, but when it did stray onto a race track it was found wanting - maybe I was comparing it to my race car and thats not fair, but it inspired little or no confiddence coming off the brakes before turning in. It's now resident in my garage cos the weathers crap....so much for it being an everyday car!
Still got the RS6 for now, but the Pork has gone.
Glad the Ultima is coming on and look forward to seeing it used in anger next year.
TVR_owner said:
Hi Shaun,
I didn't for one minute doubt the times you stated for your cars it was the factory cars given to Top Gear that I was suggesting were not representative.
I bought the Tuscan as a user and it is nice in everyday use, but when it did stray onto a race track it was found wanting - maybe I was comparing it to my race car and thats not fair, but it inspired little or no confiddence coming off the brakes before turning in. It's now resident in my garage cos the weathers crap....so much for it being an everyday car!
Still got the RS6 for now, but the Pork has gone.
Glad the Ultima is coming on and look forward to seeing it used in anger next year.
Hi JohnI didn't for one minute doubt the times you stated for your cars
it was the factory cars given to Top Gear that I was suggesting were not representative.I bought the Tuscan as a user and it is nice in everyday use, but when it did stray onto a race track it was found wanting - maybe I was comparing it to my race car and thats not fair, but it inspired little or no confiddence coming off the brakes before turning in. It's now resident in my garage cos the weathers crap....so much for it being an everyday car!
Still got the RS6 for now, but the Pork has gone.
Glad the Ultima is coming on and look forward to seeing it used in anger next year.
Understood...
What has hit me a bit recently is when owning a TVR I almost took it for granted but being without one even just admiring it in the garage sat there, I miss...
I have strayed to Ultima briefly as what I intend to do I couldn't do in a Standard TVR. However, I'm still using TVR people to a certain extent & what I think is a TVR colour & makes it a unique Ultima visually almost makes the car look classy if that is possible. I will send you a photo of it shortly, the quality & finish from Surface & Design proper blew me away. Truly outstanding job...
I doubt I will drive this particular car in anger as at first, I assume it would be like tying to tame a solid fuel rocket at first but looking forward to the experience none the less...
Finally, I'm certainly not dissing Sagaris's as they are still one of my favourite all time cars & I think are the best car production car TVR made. it would be my favourite if it wasn't for my old Tuscan S. Just can't get my head round the pace difference in the standard cars on reflection. Good to see you have left the 'Luftwaffe' & gone back to the RAF. Well partially anyway...
spartridge said:
Would love to see pictures of the reflex charcoal Ultima posted (or mailed) if that's at all possible Shaun...sounds magnificent.
Yeah, no probs, I will be recieving some photo's of the car shortly during the re-installation of the engine etc. I will forward them onto you. I don't know how to put photo's on here...tail slide said:
shaunsmith said:
........ I don't know how to put photo's on here...
It's a lot easier now - on the 'reply' page just select 'upload an image' and you can upload it straight from your PC file. Then we can all see the beastie
Cheers, I keep trying to email you with a reply in regards to Corsa tyres & keep getting it returned as failure. Should be able to email later today as the provider are addressing the problem.
Shaun
Edited by tail slide on Friday 13th November 13:37
spartridge said:
Much appreciated. Funnily enough, only thing I think I've ever considered chopping it in for is an Ultima can-am painted in....
I know what you mean, I can partially live without a TVR for now, but couldn't live without the colour as originally the GTR was giong to be black. As you probably know yourself, the lines of a TVR take some beating in RC & has given my GTR a miles better look than when it was red...shaunsmith said:
Sagaris, standard suspension no CR box 3.43 diff with Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:39.2
Sagaris with uprated suspension Nitron 3 ways with Eibach springs (set up By F1 mechanic at Silverstone), Mintex F4 pads, CR box with 3.91 diff, quicker steering & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:33.8
I didn’t think gear and diff ratio's would make that much difference, totally understand it will be faster with better brakes and suspension but over 5sec's faster is in a different league!Sagaris with uprated suspension Nitron 3 ways with Eibach springs (set up By F1 mechanic at Silverstone), Mintex F4 pads, CR box with 3.91 diff, quicker steering & Pirelli Corsa track tyres. Best lap 1:33.8
It seems with these cars that some are super fast and some just fast, they have a similar weight, chassis, engine yet some cars that have the best of each seem to be in a different league, I wouldn't off thought it would be down to the particular model, more like what that particular was built with. (The actual engine, Diff and ratio gearbox it has on the car not on the paperwork)
Yeah, the Sagaris was in a different league with all the mods carried out, which were done all in one hit as the standard car I purchased was a bit limp After driving down to Western Super Mare in a 'Rocket' Tuscan S to part ex, on the way home I dropped the car off to TVR Power for a rolling road session which made little difference but ran a bit better. Due to incredible pace difference in both cars
The Diff & CR box made a huge difference on track especially at Croft which I frequented. At Silverstone & Spa it was seemingly more down to the suspension & brakes.
One thing did surprise though me at Silverstone & Spa after the mods were carried out, down Hanger straight & the straight after Au Rouge the car at around 130 mph seamed to hit a wall but made up for it on the handling which was frustrating that is one of the reasons I went for Supercharging & rebuild or attempted anyway after cylinder 6 started to 'melt' in 07...
I think a person who has never had a TVR, the Sagaris would be very quick which it is, like coming from an M3 perhaps. But in my case I thought I was upgrading, in reality for sheer pace I wasn't... Nicer car alround but I wasn't buying one for that reason.
One thing sprung to mind the day I got the Sagaris, driving home the pace comparison was like an owning an RS Turbo & then ending up with an XR3I, sadly... a bit harsh perhaps but that was my immediate thoughts at the time of purchase. I was bewildered to say the least.
Yeah, I think some engines have to be better than others which was certainly in my case & found. I even thought it must be the rear spoiler hampering the car but the S has a similar Gurney on the back. Although I think may contribute a tad.
A Sagaris with around 500 bhp with the set up I eventually had would be a formidable tool especially on a track, it's a shame as 'nowt' would have got near it on track or very few... With that type of grunt would certainly match the truly outstanding unique, external, visual appearance & presence the car bestow's. Amazing looking classic TVR...
There is one thing for certain I will miss the Speed Six engine as for my best or greatest period of car ownership the SP6 was part of it.
The Diff & CR box made a huge difference on track especially at Croft which I frequented. At Silverstone & Spa it was seemingly more down to the suspension & brakes.
One thing did surprise though me at Silverstone & Spa after the mods were carried out, down Hanger straight & the straight after Au Rouge the car at around 130 mph seamed to hit a wall but made up for it on the handling which was frustrating that is one of the reasons I went for Supercharging & rebuild or attempted anyway after cylinder 6 started to 'melt' in 07...
I think a person who has never had a TVR, the Sagaris would be very quick which it is, like coming from an M3 perhaps. But in my case I thought I was upgrading, in reality for sheer pace I wasn't... Nicer car alround but I wasn't buying one for that reason.
One thing sprung to mind the day I got the Sagaris, driving home the pace comparison was like an owning an RS Turbo & then ending up with an XR3I, sadly... a bit harsh perhaps but that was my immediate thoughts at the time of purchase. I was bewildered to say the least.
Yeah, I think some engines have to be better than others which was certainly in my case & found. I even thought it must be the rear spoiler hampering the car but the S has a similar Gurney on the back. Although I think may contribute a tad.
A Sagaris with around 500 bhp with the set up I eventually had would be a formidable tool especially on a track, it's a shame as 'nowt' would have got near it on track or very few... With that type of grunt would certainly match the truly outstanding unique, external, visual appearance & presence the car bestow's. Amazing looking classic TVR...
There is one thing for certain I will miss the Speed Six engine as for my best or greatest period of car ownership the SP6 was part of it.
Edited by shaunsmith on Sunday 15th November 13:32
Gassing Station | Tamora, T350 & Sagaris | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff