BMW M3 (e46) or TVR T350C
Discussion
I'm in a bit of a predicament I’m looking to get a new car around March time (insurance purposes, I’ll be 25) my budget is around £19/20k.
I really really really want the T350c but im scared to death of having to shell out £6-8k for an engine re-build, within a few months of purchase.
I don't do much driving, only at weekends but when I do drive I love it and so want something special.
The easy option is to go for the BMW but my heart is not really set on it like it is the TVR. I'm also looking to get my own place next year so won’t have as much disposable income as I do now.
I don’t want to get a car that requires repairs of some sorts month after month.
Basically I just want to be convinced that getting the TVR over the BM will be worth it.
Thanks
Cliff
I really really really want the T350c but im scared to death of having to shell out £6-8k for an engine re-build, within a few months of purchase.
I don't do much driving, only at weekends but when I do drive I love it and so want something special.
The easy option is to go for the BMW but my heart is not really set on it like it is the TVR. I'm also looking to get my own place next year so won’t have as much disposable income as I do now.
I don’t want to get a car that requires repairs of some sorts month after month.
Basically I just want to be convinced that getting the TVR over the BM will be worth it.
Thanks
Cliff
There are loads of threads on what to look for and pros/cons for these cars - and also the engine.
How much do you think an M3 engine costs? You'd check for history and provenance when buying an M3 right? Well a TVR is no different.
Have you driven a recent model TVR? Do that first
How much do you think an M3 engine costs? You'd check for history and provenance when buying an M3 right? Well a TVR is no different.
Have you driven a recent model TVR? Do that first
Edited by Targarama on Thursday 10th December 16:55
If I was in your shoes I’d buy a t350 with good history and a recent rebuild still under warranty if you are worried about the engine, I would try to source a 2004 car as with the constant development it seems that by this time they had sorted most issue’s but if you get one with a rebuild then it doesn’t matter.
I say the TVR because you want a special car and it will feel special, the M3 is a great car but it feels just like a normal car. Park an M3 next to a T350 and the crowds will be looking at the TVR so it must have something aesthetically “special” the M3 lacks.
Insurance wise I reckon the T350 will be cheaper too so what I would look at is how much it’s going to cost you in terms of depreciation in the year you may keep it, I was expecting the prices of T350’s to drop this winter but I’m sure the market is getting stronger and starting to appreciate as the country gets over the recession and the fact that many cars seem to be going overseas due to the strength of the euro. I feel the M3 will always depreciate as there are so many around, If you want a special M3 it has to be a CSL which still hold great money.
You know what you want and that’s what matters, if you don’t get it while you can, you will always wonder what if.
I say the TVR because you want a special car and it will feel special, the M3 is a great car but it feels just like a normal car. Park an M3 next to a T350 and the crowds will be looking at the TVR so it must have something aesthetically “special” the M3 lacks.
Insurance wise I reckon the T350 will be cheaper too so what I would look at is how much it’s going to cost you in terms of depreciation in the year you may keep it, I was expecting the prices of T350’s to drop this winter but I’m sure the market is getting stronger and starting to appreciate as the country gets over the recession and the fact that many cars seem to be going overseas due to the strength of the euro. I feel the M3 will always depreciate as there are so many around, If you want a special M3 it has to be a CSL which still hold great money.
You know what you want and that’s what matters, if you don’t get it while you can, you will always wonder what if.
I'm afraid that no one on here can give you the comfort you're looking for. From personal experience I can tell you how great a car the T350 is and you can collate all the good advice out there on selecting a good car and then go out and ignore it all and buy a dog (heart ruling your head) or just be plain unlucky. With your budget you won't get a newer T350 but that's fine as you'll be able to get hold of one that's already had a rebuild - make sure it was done by someone reputable though (e.g. TVR Power, Str8Six, Racing Green, Dulfords etc). A good service history post rebuild is important and use your head in looking for tyhe tell tale signs of whether or not a car has been cared for or not. The T350 is a relatively simple car compared to the M3 so there's not as much to go wrong. They're not cheap cars to run so I would anticipate a pile of receipts for servicing and repairs / upgrades etc and if you're looking at buying somewhere next year you might want to think if you'll be able to run the car. Insurance at your age will be expensive and allow £600 a year for servicing and maybe the same again for general fixes.
you dont need to buy a t350 with a re-build.buy as new a model as you can afford,i know a speed six with over 50k and no engine re-build.get some-one like james agger to find you one,he knows what to look out for when buying one,its a case of luck and how the engine has been treated.with all high performance sports cars,you need to understand,if anything goes wrong,its expensive to fix.this not only applies to tvr.
for the money,nothing compares to tvr,and a t350 is one of the best looking cars on the road.
for the money,nothing compares to tvr,and a t350 is one of the best looking cars on the road.
I went through a very similar debate a few years ago and have never looked back after buying the T350. Bm's are great all rounders but just too common and un-special IMO.
Forget all the rubbish about having to have a rebuild. Yes, its necessary for the earlier cars as peace of mind but very rarely for the 2004 on cars as long as they have been treated right. The most important thing is to check with the owner and who has serviced the car what the state of the engine is like (valve clearances etc..)
You will no doubt find (as I did) that the insurance on the T350 is cheaper than the M3, and the amount of smiles you get per mile is second to none.
Go for it.
Forget all the rubbish about having to have a rebuild. Yes, its necessary for the earlier cars as peace of mind but very rarely for the 2004 on cars as long as they have been treated right. The most important thing is to check with the owner and who has serviced the car what the state of the engine is like (valve clearances etc..)
You will no doubt find (as I did) that the insurance on the T350 is cheaper than the M3, and the amount of smiles you get per mile is second to none.
Go for it.
TVR!
Thanks for all your comments guys.
I have read reviews on both the M3 and T350C and have to say the 350c owners are much happier with their motors.
However I haven’t seen one advert for an M3 detailing a full engine re-build, unfortunately the same cant be said for the TVR.
I think I’ll just have to take the plunge and hope I get a bit of luck.
Are there people who will find a good one for you?
I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
Would they search around and check the car is in good condition, take it for a test drive etc...
If so how much does this service cost?
Cheers
Cliff
I have read reviews on both the M3 and T350C and have to say the 350c owners are much happier with their motors.
However I haven’t seen one advert for an M3 detailing a full engine re-build, unfortunately the same cant be said for the TVR.
I think I’ll just have to take the plunge and hope I get a bit of luck.
Are there people who will find a good one for you?
I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
Would they search around and check the car is in good condition, take it for a test drive etc...
If so how much does this service cost?
Cheers
Cliff
Diablos-666 said:
Are there people who will find a good one for you?
I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
Good luck....I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
My approach if the budget is tight would be "Find me the best, latest car you can with a/c, and not in red for as close to £19k as possible"
But dont be surprised to have to compromise somewhere in all of that! If you had up to £25k your task would be much easier...
stub101 said:
Diablos-666 said:
Are there people who will find a good one for you?
I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
Good luck....I mean if I give them a spec of a TVR im looking for i.e.
05 Plate T350c with a/c, any colour but red for £19k.
My approach if the budget is tight would be "Find me the best, latest car you can with a/c, and not in red for as close to £19k as possible"
But dont be surprised to have to compromise somewhere in all of that! If you had up to £25k your task would be much easier...
When I bought mine a year ago I looked at a 19k 2005 model, low mileage in reflex purple. Stunning from the pictures but when you looked round there was a reason it was proced so low, in the end I spent a 3 grand more on an older model.
stub 101
I agree the reflex purple is lovely, I also like the chameleon green. There is an 05 plate T350c on the classifields for £19k, it looks pretty good.
You said you were looking for one last year and found one but when you walked round you could see why it was so cheap...
What do you look for exactly? I'm not a mechanic and ive only ever owned one car so not that experienced in knowing what to look for.
I was thinking if I do find a car I like the look of, id maybe go see it for myself have a look around for the obvious signs of abuse / damage before getting a specialist out to do a once over.
I agree the reflex purple is lovely, I also like the chameleon green. There is an 05 plate T350c on the classifields for £19k, it looks pretty good.
You said you were looking for one last year and found one but when you walked round you could see why it was so cheap...
What do you look for exactly? I'm not a mechanic and ive only ever owned one car so not that experienced in knowing what to look for.
I was thinking if I do find a car I like the look of, id maybe go see it for myself have a look around for the obvious signs of abuse / damage before getting a specialist out to do a once over.
Diablos-666 said:
stub 101
I agree the reflex purple is lovely, I also like the chameleon green. There is an 05 plate T350c on the classifields for £19k, it looks pretty good.
You said you were looking for one last year and found one but when you walked round you could see why it was so cheap...
What do you look for exactly? I'm not a mechanic and ive only ever owned one car so not that experienced in knowing what to look for.
I was thinking if I do find a car I like the look of, id maybe go see it for myself have a look around for the obvious signs of abuse / damage before getting a specialist out to do a once over.
I was in your predicament a month ago and took the plunge for the T350C.I agree the reflex purple is lovely, I also like the chameleon green. There is an 05 plate T350c on the classifields for £19k, it looks pretty good.
You said you were looking for one last year and found one but when you walked round you could see why it was so cheap...
What do you look for exactly? I'm not a mechanic and ive only ever owned one car so not that experienced in knowing what to look for.
I was thinking if I do find a car I like the look of, id maybe go see it for myself have a look around for the obvious signs of abuse / damage before getting a specialist out to do a once over.
I've been looking at prices for the past couple of months and my budget was around 20K.
I had the same concern around potential engine build outlay and wanted some comfort..
The reality is that if the engine has been abused from cold, there will be problems, but if TVR's guidelines have been followed the engines will be fine..
I would recommed an inspection by a specialist (who can check oil pressure / listen to the motor) and make sure all the receipts and service history is in order...
As for the choice of car..I had high expectations when buying mine..and they have been surpassed...
The car is very exciting, beautiful to look at, but will not suffer fools gladly..so if you're used to front drivers..go to a race school, because this car will get out of line very easily if provoked when damp and you need to be able to catch it.
Hi, I used to own a E46 M3 but got rid a couple of months ago as it was so boring.
As for your 350 it might me worth speaking to Mark Tann at Trimar Sports cars in Barnet, they are the a very long standing TVR dealer. I just bought a Sagaris from them and they included a wear and tear warranty which would cover an engine build if needed, i'm sure Mark could look out for a 350 for you and i cannot recommend them enough
As for your 350 it might me worth speaking to Mark Tann at Trimar Sports cars in Barnet, they are the a very long standing TVR dealer. I just bought a Sagaris from them and they included a wear and tear warranty which would cover an engine build if needed, i'm sure Mark could look out for a 350 for you and i cannot recommend them enough
Had my T350 for 5 years now, covered 32k without a problem. Took it to The Ring 3 years ago with a mate and his M3. His engine suffered major cam failure with just 15k on the clock and he had to leave it in Germany for BMW to rebuild. He got it back a month later. Just gos to show you never can tell. Happy Christmas
Why are you worring about insurance costs?
I'm 21 and my T350 costs £780 fully comp to insure with MSM insurance. My old Z3M was more @ £820 fully comp.
Personally after having a S50 Z3M i'd go for the TVR every day of the week.
Its my daily driver and i've done 6k in it in 5 months and i love it.
I'm 21 and my T350 costs £780 fully comp to insure with MSM insurance. My old Z3M was more @ £820 fully comp.
Personally after having a S50 Z3M i'd go for the TVR every day of the week.
Its my daily driver and i've done 6k in it in 5 months and i love it.
Funny enough I used to have an S54 engined Z3MC and I was pretty nervous at the bottom end failures that I'd read about on forums and BMW wouldn't accept because it had a lower rev limit than the E46 M3!
I wouldn't go back to a BM after owning a TVR (mines a Griff, not a T350) every drive is an epic event, the noise the torque, the looks. I like M3's, but they are a totally different experience to TVR's and wouldn't choose a family saloon over a TVR now.
Mags
I wouldn't go back to a BM after owning a TVR (mines a Griff, not a T350) every drive is an epic event, the noise the torque, the looks. I like M3's, but they are a totally different experience to TVR's and wouldn't choose a family saloon over a TVR now.
Mags
What is more important to you, your new house or the car???
there will be plenty of unexpected costs involved in buying and living in a new house, don’t underestimate how much of a drain on resources it will be.
it the your answer is the house then buy a 330i for £15k and stop reading now!
if your answer is Car then.....
both will be worthless unless kept in tip top condition, people by sports cars on condition.
M3
should cost £1-2k pa to run +insurance + fuel
and is an easy everyday car (well... except in snow)
TVR
will cost between £2-3k pa to run +insurance + fuel
and will spend some time 'away' during the year to fix various bits and pieces
overall ownership:
TVR - is like dating Kate Moss, everyone will look, it'll be a roller coaster, she's a saucy little minx that'll have you day dreaming about the next time you can give her a good thrashing and sometimes she'll reduce you to tears.
in comparison
M3 - is like dating the pretty girl next door (ok perhaps not so pretty). quite racey, but also comfy, reliable; she won’t stand you up etc
ideally own both in your life time
whichever you end up with...
take her to the track to find the limits, then go to the continent where its sunny and the roads are quieter and have fun!
Cheers
Custard
there will be plenty of unexpected costs involved in buying and living in a new house, don’t underestimate how much of a drain on resources it will be.
it the your answer is the house then buy a 330i for £15k and stop reading now!
if your answer is Car then.....
both will be worthless unless kept in tip top condition, people by sports cars on condition.
M3
should cost £1-2k pa to run +insurance + fuel
and is an easy everyday car (well... except in snow)
TVR
will cost between £2-3k pa to run +insurance + fuel
and will spend some time 'away' during the year to fix various bits and pieces
overall ownership:
TVR - is like dating Kate Moss, everyone will look, it'll be a roller coaster, she's a saucy little minx that'll have you day dreaming about the next time you can give her a good thrashing and sometimes she'll reduce you to tears.
in comparison
M3 - is like dating the pretty girl next door (ok perhaps not so pretty). quite racey, but also comfy, reliable; she won’t stand you up etc
ideally own both in your life time
whichever you end up with...
take her to the track to find the limits, then go to the continent where its sunny and the roads are quieter and have fun!
Cheers
Custard
An M3 is boring compared to a TVR, of that there is no doubt. I’ve driven a Tuscan and own an M3. And a T350c will always look ten times cooler than an M3.
But an M3 is hardly a dullard, it’s exciting compared to a ‘normal’ car. On twisty dry roads the handling and sure-footedness is astonishing, and when you down-shift with the SMG, it blips, the gear slams home and you nail up to over 8000rpm to a tasty exhaust note (windows and roof open for maximum effect) it’s pretty exciting. That’s the beauty of them, they are normal cars when you want them to be, yet still provide the thrills on the right roads. And you can fit loads of stuff in them, which was important to me. But if you really want and can justify a TVR, no other car will suffice I suspect.
Ultimately it’s a case how much the additional excitement of a TVR is worth in lost reliability, particularly when there are other life-costs to consider and any time off the road is is lost opportunity cost which is harder to measure, but is very valuable all the same.
If I chose again and had some more ££, I would get a CSL. It turns up the dials even further, will always be a rarity, looks mean and thanks to that carbon airbox has one of the best engine noises of any car.
But an M3 is hardly a dullard, it’s exciting compared to a ‘normal’ car. On twisty dry roads the handling and sure-footedness is astonishing, and when you down-shift with the SMG, it blips, the gear slams home and you nail up to over 8000rpm to a tasty exhaust note (windows and roof open for maximum effect) it’s pretty exciting. That’s the beauty of them, they are normal cars when you want them to be, yet still provide the thrills on the right roads. And you can fit loads of stuff in them, which was important to me. But if you really want and can justify a TVR, no other car will suffice I suspect.
Ultimately it’s a case how much the additional excitement of a TVR is worth in lost reliability, particularly when there are other life-costs to consider and any time off the road is is lost opportunity cost which is harder to measure, but is very valuable all the same.
If I chose again and had some more ££, I would get a CSL. It turns up the dials even further, will always be a rarity, looks mean and thanks to that carbon airbox has one of the best engine noises of any car.
Edited by 0836whimper on Thursday 24th December 17:31
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