Paddleshift Sequential Gearbox
Discussion
http://www.geartronics.co.uk/paddleshift.htm
anybody fitted a system like the above to a Speed Six engined Trev?
anybody fitted a system like the above to a Speed Six engined Trev?
k.Mark, I recall a conversation a few years ago that I had with Joolz (now at RaceProved) who was looking into a hydraulicly actuated system for CeeJay's racer, something - in a wonderfully TVR PH community way - that I believe Matt350 (or a similar name) was working on?
Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
Rather than trying to engineer something from scratch to try to make a manual box into a sequential, don't you 'just' buy a sequential geabox, of which there are a number of options for front engined, rear wheel drive cars, then fit one of the paddle shift systems that are on the market, including engineering some form of mechanical throttle blipper?
It all needs setting up very, very carefully, as the implications of getting the timing of a gearshift wrong are potentially a wrecked box. That's why if I were considering such a system I would do my homework - go with a supplier that had lots of product out in the market and then choose my installer/mapper very, very carefully. You probably need some mapping on a rolling road and then fine tuning on a test day to get it all set up properly.
Of course you then have to live with a number of drawbacks - noise from the straight cut gears being the main one.
The benefits of this system are really only for the track. I have a Holinger sequential box in my race car. It is almost undriveable in 1st, although that is partly due to the nature of the cam. I don't have a paddle shift, but I do have flat shift set up via the ECU - so upshifts after a certain speed are full throttle and clutchless. The ignition cut is programmed to be different depending which gear you are changing from and to - so it requires a degree of sophistication in the engine ECU that may not be there in road going TVRs. Coming down the box still requires a stab of the clutch and heel and toe - with a paddleshift system this could be removed if a reliable and consistent mechanical throttle blipper could be installed on the cable operated throttle.
It is of course all technically do-able but none of it is cheap. I also can't help feeling that you would seldom get the benefits of full throttle upshifts on the public roads in cars as powerful as TVRs without putting your licence at risk.
It all needs setting up very, very carefully, as the implications of getting the timing of a gearshift wrong are potentially a wrecked box. That's why if I were considering such a system I would do my homework - go with a supplier that had lots of product out in the market and then choose my installer/mapper very, very carefully. You probably need some mapping on a rolling road and then fine tuning on a test day to get it all set up properly.
Of course you then have to live with a number of drawbacks - noise from the straight cut gears being the main one.
The benefits of this system are really only for the track. I have a Holinger sequential box in my race car. It is almost undriveable in 1st, although that is partly due to the nature of the cam. I don't have a paddle shift, but I do have flat shift set up via the ECU - so upshifts after a certain speed are full throttle and clutchless. The ignition cut is programmed to be different depending which gear you are changing from and to - so it requires a degree of sophistication in the engine ECU that may not be there in road going TVRs. Coming down the box still requires a stab of the clutch and heel and toe - with a paddleshift system this could be removed if a reliable and consistent mechanical throttle blipper could be installed on the cable operated throttle.
It is of course all technically do-able but none of it is cheap. I also can't help feeling that you would seldom get the benefits of full throttle upshifts on the public roads in cars as powerful as TVRs without putting your licence at risk.
BCA said:
Mark, I recall a conversation a few years ago that I had with Joolz (now at RaceProved) who was looking into a hydraulicly actuated system for CeeJay's racer, something - in a wonderfully TVR PH community way - that I believe Matt350 (or a similar name) was working on?
Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
Hi Ben,Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
like Andy says above would prefer a system that's up and working and has a good track record, though it would be interesting to see what they came up with
teamHOLDENracing said:
Rather than trying to engineer something from scratch to try to make a manual box into a sequential, don't you 'just' buy a sequential geabox, of which there are a number of options for front engined, rear wheel drive cars, then fit one of the paddle shift systems that are on the market, including engineering some form of mechanical throttle blipper?
It all needs setting up very, very carefully, as the implications of getting the timing of a gearshift wrong are potentially a wrecked box. That's why if I were considering such a system I would do my homework - go with a supplier that had lots of product out in the market and then choose my installer/mapper very, very carefully. You probably need some mapping on a rolling road and then fine tuning on a test day to get it all set up properly.
Of course you then have to live with a number of drawbacks - noise from the straight cut gears being the main one.
The benefits of this system are really only for the track. I have a Holinger sequential box in my race car. It is almost undriveable in 1st, although that is partly due to the nature of the cam. I don't have a paddle shift, but I do have flat shift set up via the ECU - so upshifts after a certain speed are full throttle and clutchless. The ignition cut is programmed to be different depending which gear you are changing from and to - so it requires a degree of sophistication in the engine ECU that may not be there in road going TVRs. Coming down the box still requires a stab of the clutch and heel and toe - with a paddleshift system this could be removed if a reliable and consistent mechanical throttle blipper could be installed on the cable operated throttle.
It is of course all technically do-able but none of it is cheap. I also can't help feeling that you would seldom get the benefits of full throttle upshifts on the public roads in cars as powerful as TVRs without putting your licence at risk.
Some good and interesting points, though to make a car excel on track you end up making it a pig on the road, but you know that and it's finding the compromise thats the problem.It all needs setting up very, very carefully, as the implications of getting the timing of a gearshift wrong are potentially a wrecked box. That's why if I were considering such a system I would do my homework - go with a supplier that had lots of product out in the market and then choose my installer/mapper very, very carefully. You probably need some mapping on a rolling road and then fine tuning on a test day to get it all set up properly.
Of course you then have to live with a number of drawbacks - noise from the straight cut gears being the main one.
The benefits of this system are really only for the track. I have a Holinger sequential box in my race car. It is almost undriveable in 1st, although that is partly due to the nature of the cam. I don't have a paddle shift, but I do have flat shift set up via the ECU - so upshifts after a certain speed are full throttle and clutchless. The ignition cut is programmed to be different depending which gear you are changing from and to - so it requires a degree of sophistication in the engine ECU that may not be there in road going TVRs. Coming down the box still requires a stab of the clutch and heel and toe - with a paddleshift system this could be removed if a reliable and consistent mechanical throttle blipper could be installed on the cable operated throttle.
It is of course all technically do-able but none of it is cheap. I also can't help feeling that you would seldom get the benefits of full throttle upshifts on the public roads in cars as powerful as TVRs without putting your licence at risk.
DOn't really want to go down the route of fitting silly Diffs (3.91 etc) either to compensate for the lack of (torque,revs) especially if I'm going to upgrade the engine so I will probably stick a 3.4 diff in it with a 4.5 S6 engine and Paddleshift Sequential Gearbox, that should be a good combo for Spa
Though I suppose fitting a LS engine would be another option but I have fallen for the TVRS6 engine and just want to get the best out of it.
TVRMARKUB said:
BCA said:
Mark, I recall a conversation a few years ago that I had with Joolz (now at RaceProved) who was looking into a hydraulicly actuated system for CeeJay's racer, something - in a wonderfully TVR PH community way - that I believe Matt350 (or a similar name) was working on?
Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
Hi Ben,Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
like Andy says above would prefer a system that's up and working and has a good track record, though it would be interesting to see what they came up with
BCA said:
TVRMARKUB said:
BCA said:
Mark, I recall a conversation a few years ago that I had with Joolz (now at RaceProved) who was looking into a hydraulicly actuated system for CeeJay's racer, something - in a wonderfully TVR PH community way - that I believe Matt350 (or a similar name) was working on?
Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
Hi Ben,Worth asking around with those involved possibly? As it happens, the S6 route was short lived for the T350 racer, so I dont think it ever really took off, but it could be a potential option for you?
like Andy says above would prefer a system that's up and working and has a good track record, though it would be interesting to see what they came up with
What is needed is someone with loads of experience/money to race a factory S6 Sagaris who can test all the options,
then we can nick all his settings/better upgrades
dpd3047 said:
I had some dealings many years ago with a guy Bill Martin had a company called Zero Shift he was modifying T5 gearboxes with no clutch shifting and
paddle type shifting he done some work for Eddie Jorden F1 dont know if there still about were in Milton keynes.?
If memory serves 'bosscerbera' aka Phil James from these forums was heavily involved and used his Cerbera as a test mule. paddle type shifting he done some work for Eddie Jorden F1 dont know if there still about were in Milton keynes.?
Guys its not that difficult.
Drenth gearboxes (based in Holland) are a popular fitment to BMW race cars and Sam Head fitted one to his (my ex) Tuscan Challenge car (AJP8). (At the time they didn't do a box which would cope with the level of torque I get from the LS). That car is currently racing, with teh sequential box, in the TVR Challenge driven by Jamie Golby
Fitment to an AJP6 is not an issue. You will need a modified bell housing, or an adapter plate as I doubt that the mounting holes on the box will match the bellhousing. Fashioning some mounts is not that difficult. There are plenty of places that will fabricate a new prop or modify length if required.
Hey presto, sequential gearbox.
Depending on manufacturer, you may also be able to chose your gear ratios to keep the same diff.
Adding the paddle shift is simply a case of choosing supplier and installing. There are options for ignition cut which work outside of the ECU (I think) - although the best solution is an aftermarket ECU with flat shift capability. The final set up does need to be done carefully as I alluded to above
The reason no-one is currently racing with this set up is until recently the S6 was considered a risky proposition.
I do maintain though, that this is a modification which will only be useful on track and will make the car difficult to live with off track
Drenth gearboxes (based in Holland) are a popular fitment to BMW race cars and Sam Head fitted one to his (my ex) Tuscan Challenge car (AJP8). (At the time they didn't do a box which would cope with the level of torque I get from the LS). That car is currently racing, with teh sequential box, in the TVR Challenge driven by Jamie Golby
Fitment to an AJP6 is not an issue. You will need a modified bell housing, or an adapter plate as I doubt that the mounting holes on the box will match the bellhousing. Fashioning some mounts is not that difficult. There are plenty of places that will fabricate a new prop or modify length if required.
Hey presto, sequential gearbox.
Depending on manufacturer, you may also be able to chose your gear ratios to keep the same diff.
Adding the paddle shift is simply a case of choosing supplier and installing. There are options for ignition cut which work outside of the ECU (I think) - although the best solution is an aftermarket ECU with flat shift capability. The final set up does need to be done carefully as I alluded to above
The reason no-one is currently racing with this set up is until recently the S6 was considered a risky proposition.
I do maintain though, that this is a modification which will only be useful on track and will make the car difficult to live with off track
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