Air vents/ducts problem???
Discussion
As the days get colder I find myself trying to use the heater but for some reason no heat seams to come from either the driver or passenger air vents.
Heat does come from the top dash vents though and cleared my windowscreen.
Is this a common fault? Is it something that is easily fixed?
I did have air con issues the other week so thinking this might be related?
Thanks in advance
Heat does come from the top dash vents though and cleared my windowscreen.
Is this a common fault? Is it something that is easily fixed?
I did have air con issues the other week so thinking this might be related?
Thanks in advance
Hot air only from the windscreen vents and the footwell vents. As you turn up the heat the mix reduces the blow from the middle cold vents until off and increases the blow of hot air from the others.
Unless it's a Sag and then cold air also comes from the hot vents when on cold setting. Nice in summer with aircon on the feet!
Unless it's a Sag and then cold air also comes from the hot vents when on cold setting. Nice in summer with aircon on the feet!
Edited by fairclp on Saturday 23 October 22:27
The heating was on full and could feel the heat and full air flow through the top vent.
When i felt the drivers vent I couldnt feel any heat and hardly any air flow.
I'm out in her tomorrow so will double check the heating and air con in all the vents.
I've been thinking about getting a few more mods done but have been putting it off as I spend £1k last month on a few tweaks, but this might give me an excuse to visit the dealer again to get this sorted and the mods done at the same time.
When i felt the drivers vent I couldnt feel any heat and hardly any air flow.
I'm out in her tomorrow so will double check the heating and air con in all the vents.
I've been thinking about getting a few more mods done but have been putting it off as I spend £1k last month on a few tweaks, but this might give me an excuse to visit the dealer again to get this sorted and the mods done at the same time.
grumbledoak said:
This isn't a fault. The air system is a bit of a mess, but basically they won't all do hot, ambient, and air con.
Please post if you do modify...
So some vents do heating and others do air con?Please post if you do modify...
I assume then that the top 2 vents on the dash do heating and the driver and passenger vents do air con?
I do notice that when the air con is on it chills the glovebox, is this normal practise too?
grumbledoak said:
IIRC the top vents can do ambient or hot, the middle ones only ambient, and the lower ones air-con.
But, yes, the air-con does chill the glove box.
Middle ones only ambient? When I have the air con on (and when working) I get got chilled air blowing strongly via the middle vents?But, yes, the air-con does chill the glove box.
I can't say I've ever noticed the footwell vents ever working?
Does anybody have a schematic showing how the heating and air con works? Might help me understand what is going on?
Mattt said:
You see there are 2 parts to the dash (upper and lower) - both are hollow fibreglass - the top one has a hot feed, the bottom one has a cold feed.
The lower dash (glovebox bit) is just full of cold air - so it chills the glovebox and radio.
This. The two sources don't mix, so the 'aircon' vents will only get warm-ish and not heated.The lower dash (glovebox bit) is just full of cold air - so it chills the glovebox and radio.
Harrow_tam said:
Diablos-666 said:
I can't say I've ever noticed the footwell vents ever working?
OK forgive me - silly question of the day... have you actually got the footwell vents open? Mine work very efficiently and fry my feet regularly.Nick
Copy of a post way back for getting the car cold in Summer;
But relevant for setting the flap setting to get it nice & toasty in Winter:-
Ventilation & Aircon is a bit hit and miss; but should be like an ice box and too cold on full chat.
Even without aircon you should NOT get any heater hot air in the cabin when cold selected
I've done the following with the Sagaris, can't be sure it'll work for others though:-
The air duct in the lower dash is for the cold only.The screen and lower vents should also be cold and only go hot when hot selected with or without aircon, but they will warm a little in traffic without the aircon on, but never get silly hot.
The Sagaris has a dividing panel on the n/s to seperate the hot air from the radiator that the early T350 and Tam's don't, seems very easy to replicate and fit. The heater fan air intake is under the light and simply goes between the inner and outer wing to the heater intake; so if the panels not there it brings in hot air from the rads. Keep the intake clear of flies too.
Heater dividing panel
ON POD 8 menu the flap zero is critical to whether the car cooks or not regardless if you have aircon or not!. ADJUST THIS TEMPORARILY FOR WINTER WARMTH TOO!
I spent loads of time on it but it works a dream now; to check this:-
I selected cold and maximum fan and adjusted the zero position until nearly all the airflow was to the lower dash vents only. My flap setting was 0, but now 26 (factory setting understood to be 16). Remember to save the settings
When the car is warmed up and cold is selected no hot air comes through the top vents anymore, only if it is selected.
It will take some time to set up but, if this doesn't work theres a chance the flap may have come loose off the motor, or the flap motor failed. It's in the gasketed box behind the aircon expansion valve/pipes. Usually get a Flap fault-126 warning if faulty, but I've not needed to get in there yet.
I also insulated the gearbox/prop tunnel to stop heat soak to the cabin whilst changing the reverse switch and made a additional gaiter for the gear stick, and plugged the hot air leaks that come from behind the POD. Removed carpet on footwell underside; I ran the heater fan to max and found that there was a big gap between the bulkhead and the air duct that goes to the dash, i sealed it up with some expanding neoprene sponge.
This improved the air flow to the drivers vent loads.
The transfered heat on the gear knob was sorted by changing to a ceramic heat break, and no burning palms now.
I further improved this by taking out the glove box and sealing it better and also creating a barrier with aluminium foil tape betwen the upper dash and the lower to reduce/stop heat transfer when the car warms up. (to take out remove two screws, lift front edge and roll upwards and back)
Passenger footwell underside show gaps & sensors
Pod sealing with neprene sponge
I fitted the cold air sensor into the hole that was taped over, then screwed the hot one into the brass insert on the bulkhead. I think they had problems with them at the factory so may not have fitted them, but when you do fit them and the cars up to temperature you may get a fault code 137 when it gets too hot; but getting the fl;ap zero sorts this.
ON POD 5 menu. When cold and the engine and aircon is not running all the sensors should be about the same temperature; The hot air and cold air sensors were dangling from the loom on mine,before i fitted as above; you can find out which is which by un plugging.
The ambient air temp is the one on the o/s of the rad that pokes through to the splitter/inner wing, and gets silly readings as the car slows in heat(and also wind chill) you can improve this by using a nylon nut (rather than steel) and a fibre insulating washer; and move to the other side of the splitter into the free air flow to the brakes.
Heater Controller
This may overheat(for the fan and flap)and reduce the cold air flow to nothing on long journeys.
To keep the controller cool in an attempt to rectify I have fitted mine behind the glovebox in the cold air section, not sure if this helps but mines not failed since.
Heater controller moved(not sure if it helps though)
AIRCON POD 5 menu status screen
There's no point looking at this section until you've sorted bits above first;
Select with the blue lamp on the aircon (CL) clutch is operated you should here it click and read 'on'; The aircon pump clutch supply is connected to the red wire you can just see in the pic below, Its fuse no.28 20Amp; The red wire connects to the loom white wire (terminal M) on the small round plug behind the airbox that goes through to the dash. The connection by the aircon pump is only a bullet/crimp and can fail easily; mine had been cut under a tiewrap in the loom.
There should be a supply on the white loom wire to the connector when aircon selected if not see below
Aircon pump red wire
Thro POD 5. menu.
Fan is 0-100% dependant where knob is
Flap is 0-100%dependant where knob is (nothing to do with the zero in POD 8 menu).
CL= Clutch 'off' - air con pump signal off, should change as soon as you press to get blue lamp
PR= 'on'- system pressure charged up/heathly and is reliant on the signal from the trinary switch (three set points HP28 MP17 LP2) on right hand side by VIN plate on photo. If connector loose/pulled off and not seeing the signal,will give the reading PR=off.
IC= Thermostat- should always be 'on'
This has a copper capillary wire sitting in the footwell above the battery box top. Not sure what this does but mine is set to maximum, be careful with the capillary wire. 'IC'should always be 'on' as this cuts the supply to the aircon pump (if not by-pass the circiut to see if faulty)
Aircon Thermostat
Aircon refrigerant 750 and 60cc of pag46 oil
Hope this helps?
G
PS Remember; for Winter warmth just frig the flap zero! (try setting to '0'
But relevant for setting the flap setting to get it nice & toasty in Winter:-
Ventilation & Aircon is a bit hit and miss; but should be like an ice box and too cold on full chat.
Even without aircon you should NOT get any heater hot air in the cabin when cold selected
I've done the following with the Sagaris, can't be sure it'll work for others though:-
The air duct in the lower dash is for the cold only.The screen and lower vents should also be cold and only go hot when hot selected with or without aircon, but they will warm a little in traffic without the aircon on, but never get silly hot.
The Sagaris has a dividing panel on the n/s to seperate the hot air from the radiator that the early T350 and Tam's don't, seems very easy to replicate and fit. The heater fan air intake is under the light and simply goes between the inner and outer wing to the heater intake; so if the panels not there it brings in hot air from the rads. Keep the intake clear of flies too.
Heater dividing panel
ON POD 8 menu the flap zero is critical to whether the car cooks or not regardless if you have aircon or not!. ADJUST THIS TEMPORARILY FOR WINTER WARMTH TOO!
I spent loads of time on it but it works a dream now; to check this:-
I selected cold and maximum fan and adjusted the zero position until nearly all the airflow was to the lower dash vents only. My flap setting was 0, but now 26 (factory setting understood to be 16). Remember to save the settings
When the car is warmed up and cold is selected no hot air comes through the top vents anymore, only if it is selected.
It will take some time to set up but, if this doesn't work theres a chance the flap may have come loose off the motor, or the flap motor failed. It's in the gasketed box behind the aircon expansion valve/pipes. Usually get a Flap fault-126 warning if faulty, but I've not needed to get in there yet.
I also insulated the gearbox/prop tunnel to stop heat soak to the cabin whilst changing the reverse switch and made a additional gaiter for the gear stick, and plugged the hot air leaks that come from behind the POD. Removed carpet on footwell underside; I ran the heater fan to max and found that there was a big gap between the bulkhead and the air duct that goes to the dash, i sealed it up with some expanding neoprene sponge.
This improved the air flow to the drivers vent loads.
The transfered heat on the gear knob was sorted by changing to a ceramic heat break, and no burning palms now.
I further improved this by taking out the glove box and sealing it better and also creating a barrier with aluminium foil tape betwen the upper dash and the lower to reduce/stop heat transfer when the car warms up. (to take out remove two screws, lift front edge and roll upwards and back)
Passenger footwell underside show gaps & sensors
Pod sealing with neprene sponge
I fitted the cold air sensor into the hole that was taped over, then screwed the hot one into the brass insert on the bulkhead. I think they had problems with them at the factory so may not have fitted them, but when you do fit them and the cars up to temperature you may get a fault code 137 when it gets too hot; but getting the fl;ap zero sorts this.
ON POD 5 menu. When cold and the engine and aircon is not running all the sensors should be about the same temperature; The hot air and cold air sensors were dangling from the loom on mine,before i fitted as above; you can find out which is which by un plugging.
The ambient air temp is the one on the o/s of the rad that pokes through to the splitter/inner wing, and gets silly readings as the car slows in heat(and also wind chill) you can improve this by using a nylon nut (rather than steel) and a fibre insulating washer; and move to the other side of the splitter into the free air flow to the brakes.
Heater Controller
This may overheat(for the fan and flap)and reduce the cold air flow to nothing on long journeys.
To keep the controller cool in an attempt to rectify I have fitted mine behind the glovebox in the cold air section, not sure if this helps but mines not failed since.
Heater controller moved(not sure if it helps though)
AIRCON POD 5 menu status screen
There's no point looking at this section until you've sorted bits above first;
Select with the blue lamp on the aircon (CL) clutch is operated you should here it click and read 'on'; The aircon pump clutch supply is connected to the red wire you can just see in the pic below, Its fuse no.28 20Amp; The red wire connects to the loom white wire (terminal M) on the small round plug behind the airbox that goes through to the dash. The connection by the aircon pump is only a bullet/crimp and can fail easily; mine had been cut under a tiewrap in the loom.
There should be a supply on the white loom wire to the connector when aircon selected if not see below
Aircon pump red wire
Thro POD 5. menu.
Fan is 0-100% dependant where knob is
Flap is 0-100%dependant where knob is (nothing to do with the zero in POD 8 menu).
CL= Clutch 'off' - air con pump signal off, should change as soon as you press to get blue lamp
PR= 'on'- system pressure charged up/heathly and is reliant on the signal from the trinary switch (three set points HP28 MP17 LP2) on right hand side by VIN plate on photo. If connector loose/pulled off and not seeing the signal,will give the reading PR=off.
IC= Thermostat- should always be 'on'
This has a copper capillary wire sitting in the footwell above the battery box top. Not sure what this does but mine is set to maximum, be careful with the capillary wire. 'IC'should always be 'on' as this cuts the supply to the aircon pump (if not by-pass the circiut to see if faulty)
Aircon Thermostat
Aircon refrigerant 750 and 60cc of pag46 oil
Hope this helps?
G
PS Remember; for Winter warmth just frig the flap zero! (try setting to '0'
Edited by VARLEYHYD on Monday 25th October 22:13
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