Going from a Honda Elise to a T350
Discussion
Hi all, I'm starting to get the itch for a TVR. Current ride of 4 years is a 135R with a honda lump in. Anyone done this, or at least from a normal Elise or high power Exige? I don't go to the track so much nowadays and feel the Elise is a little too hardcore/too quick for the road so fancy 'growing up a bit' and swapping to a T350. I've previously been out in various chimeras but guess the speed six is a completely different animal to the v8? The honda needs it's neck wrung for maximum enjoyment (almost 9k red line), requires a very delicate touch in anything other than the dry (wears Ao48's) and I figure I can burble around a bit more and enjoy the sound / big torque of the TVR.
I'm thinking I'd like one already modded. i.e. engine already replaced/upgraded/warranty? (this is my biggest concern i think) & suitably loud exhaust, maybe suspension. What else needs to be on the wish list? I've been through the sorting niggles / upgrading phase several times to truly sort the lotus so rather than do that again reckon I should be looking for an enthusiasts T350 that's already had suitable attention too.
Interested to hear some thoughts really, or if anyone is around south manchester I'd appreciate a chat / ride out to really get an idea.
thanks in advance
I'm thinking I'd like one already modded. i.e. engine already replaced/upgraded/warranty? (this is my biggest concern i think) & suitably loud exhaust, maybe suspension. What else needs to be on the wish list? I've been through the sorting niggles / upgrading phase several times to truly sort the lotus so rather than do that again reckon I should be looking for an enthusiasts T350 that's already had suitable attention too.
Interested to hear some thoughts really, or if anyone is around south manchester I'd appreciate a chat / ride out to really get an idea.
thanks in advance
The Speed 6 engine isnt that big on torque low down unless you get TVR Powers 4.3 rebuild, certainly nothing like a Chim or Griff with an RV8.
Mid to top end power is huge (although I have a 4.0l I think the T350's are all 3.6 so have slightly less torque)
I went to my Tuscan from a Ginetta G33 and am enjoying a less raw and more civilsed car. I only looked at cars with a rebuild and got one with a TVR Power 5 year warranty, I did this for peace of mind as much as anything. I also looked at T350's
It seems that not all T350's are immune from needing a rebuild (despite what some people say), and not all rebuilds are the same. For instance I was told one car had had a rebuild, but when I spoke to the engine builder the rebuild turned out to be replacement of 4 finger followers and one cam shaft.
Mid to top end power is huge (although I have a 4.0l I think the T350's are all 3.6 so have slightly less torque)
I went to my Tuscan from a Ginetta G33 and am enjoying a less raw and more civilsed car. I only looked at cars with a rebuild and got one with a TVR Power 5 year warranty, I did this for peace of mind as much as anything. I also looked at T350's
It seems that not all T350's are immune from needing a rebuild (despite what some people say), and not all rebuilds are the same. For instance I was told one car had had a rebuild, but when I spoke to the engine builder the rebuild turned out to be replacement of 4 finger followers and one cam shaft.
thanks for the reply blue, the torque answer is kinda at odds with what I was expecting tbh. It's still tractable enough to hustle without having to shift cogs though? That's the issue with the Elise, to really move I have to shift to find the sweet spot.
Sounds like getting the right rebuild is the way forward for peace of mind. Definitely the way I would approach things. (after all I replaced the k to avoid head gasket failure
) What's the pickup like, how careful do you have to be warming it up?
jollyrodger you misread my intentions; I'm not debating over which is the quicker but the post had to be started with some background so you can see where I'm coming from. The Elise is roughly 290bhp/tonne at the mo, so I'm genuinely interested in the manner in which the power is delivered, living with it etc.
While it's on my mind does anyone occasionally track theirs? Best avoided? I have seen the odd one or two at Oulton over the years. I'm guessing tyre/brake wear rates are higher & more expensive if I dare?
Sounds like getting the right rebuild is the way forward for peace of mind. Definitely the way I would approach things. (after all I replaced the k to avoid head gasket failure
) What's the pickup like, how careful do you have to be warming it up?jollyrodger you misread my intentions; I'm not debating over which is the quicker but the post had to be started with some background so you can see where I'm coming from. The Elise is roughly 290bhp/tonne at the mo, so I'm genuinely interested in the manner in which the power is delivered, living with it etc.
While it's on my mind does anyone occasionally track theirs? Best avoided? I have seen the odd one or two at Oulton over the years. I'm guessing tyre/brake wear rates are higher & more expensive if I dare?
Quicker on the road will imho be down to the individual car and driver capabilities , as to torque
yes the 3.6 will have less than the 4.0 or 4.3 engines but it is supposedly sweeter to rev (havent driven a 4.0 or 4.3 equiped car) but it will still have bucket loads more torque than the Vtec honda lump. As to how they drive you need to try a few out as some can be a bit off and some very sweet handling (comparing my 1st t350 with my current one).
yes the 3.6 will have less than the 4.0 or 4.3 engines but it is supposedly sweeter to rev (havent driven a 4.0 or 4.3 equiped car) but it will still have bucket loads more torque than the Vtec honda lump. As to how they drive you need to try a few out as some can be a bit off and some very sweet handling (comparing my 1st t350 with my current one).
Yee haa! said:
thanks for the reply blue, the torque answer is kinda at odds with what I was expecting tbh. It's still tractable enough to hustle without having to shift cogs though? That's the issue with the Elise, to really move I have to shift to find the sweet spot.
Sounds like getting the right rebuild is the way forward for peace of mind. Definitely the way I would approach things. (after all I replaced the k to avoid head gasket failure ) What's the pickup like, how careful do you have to be warming it up?
jollyrodger you misread my intentions; I'm not debating over which is the quicker but the post had to be started with some background so you can see where I'm coming from. The Elise is roughly 290bhp/tonne at the mo, so I'm genuinely interested in the manner in which the power is delivered, living with it etc.
While it's on my mind does anyone occasionally track theirs? Best avoided? I have seen the odd one or two at Oulton over the years. I'm guessing tyre/brake wear rates are higher & more expensive if I dare?
Its still tractable, but not the same as a V8 more like a 911. My G33 would pull in any gear even from low revs, 0-150 was possible in 5th, the Tuscan is not like that, you have to change gear more often, but it does have more grunt than an elise.Sounds like getting the right rebuild is the way forward for peace of mind. Definitely the way I would approach things. (after all I replaced the k to avoid head gasket failure
) What's the pickup like, how careful do you have to be warming it up?jollyrodger you misread my intentions; I'm not debating over which is the quicker but the post had to be started with some background so you can see where I'm coming from. The Elise is roughly 290bhp/tonne at the mo, so I'm genuinely interested in the manner in which the power is delivered, living with it etc.
While it's on my mind does anyone occasionally track theirs? Best avoided? I have seen the odd one or two at Oulton over the years. I'm guessing tyre/brake wear rates are higher & more expensive if I dare?
Pickup is good, it revs sweetly and when the power really comes, it just keeps coming.
I warm up carefully, at this time of year on a 60mph A road it takes about 15 mins to get the oil warm.
On the track point, I note that TVR Powers warranty is void if the car is used for track days, but I am sure Dom would sort that with a brief discussion
fredd1e said:
Quicker on the road will imho be down to the individual car and driver capabilities , as to torque
yes the 3.6 will have less than the 4.0 or 4.3 engines but it is supposedly sweeter to rev (havent driven a 4.0 or 4.3 equiped car) but it will still have bucket loads more torque than the Vtec honda lump. As to how they drive you need to try a few out as some can be a bit off and some very sweet handling (comparing my 1st t350 with my current one).
that's interesting on the handling, is the standard suspension adjustable? It's the same with Lotus - handling varies - despite having the factory LSS fitted, my original settings were complete nonsense (it was boating!) and a geo transformed it.yes the 3.6 will have less than the 4.0 or 4.3 engines but it is supposedly sweeter to rev (havent driven a 4.0 or 4.3 equiped car) but it will still have bucket loads more torque than the Vtec honda lump. As to how they drive you need to try a few out as some can be a bit off and some very sweet handling (comparing my 1st t350 with my current one).
Moved from a 111R to a Sportsracer to a Griff now a T350.
The Elise was a fantastic car but not great on long drags and although more practical than given credit for, still was wearing.
The low end grunt of the Griff was great, led to lazy but fun driving, the pull in 3rd was awesome, but it was a pain at low speed around town and showed its age.
My T350 is fantastic around town v.easy to drive, Eurobox territory. It has more low end grunt at low revs than the Elise but more like the Elise at mid to high revs, loves to spin up and pulls like crazy.
It also handles very well, as mentioned handling is very specific to individual cars, the T350 might not go as well as a good Elise on the ultimate twisties, but I am finding that to drive like that on the roads in the South east is just too dangerous. As soon as you are on the big A roads and dual carraigeways it would have to be a very special Elise to stay with the T350.
The Elise was a fantastic car but not great on long drags and although more practical than given credit for, still was wearing.
The low end grunt of the Griff was great, led to lazy but fun driving, the pull in 3rd was awesome, but it was a pain at low speed around town and showed its age.
My T350 is fantastic around town v.easy to drive, Eurobox territory. It has more low end grunt at low revs than the Elise but more like the Elise at mid to high revs, loves to spin up and pulls like crazy.
It also handles very well, as mentioned handling is very specific to individual cars, the T350 might not go as well as a good Elise on the ultimate twisties, but I am finding that to drive like that on the roads in the South east is just too dangerous. As soon as you are on the big A roads and dual carraigeways it would have to be a very special Elise to stay with the T350.
Incey said:
Moved from a 111R to a Sportsracer to a Griff now a T350.
The Elise was a fantastic car but not great on long drags and although more practical than given credit for, still was wearing.
The low end grunt of the Griff was great, led to lazy but fun driving, the pull in 3rd was awesome, but it was a pain at low speed around town and showed its age.
My T350 is fantastic around town v.easy to drive, Eurobox territory. It has more low end grunt at low revs than the Elise but more like the Elise at mid to high revs, loves to spin up and pulls like crazy.
It also handles very well, as mentioned handling is very specific to individual cars, the T350 might not go as well as a good Elise on the ultimate twisties, but I am finding that to drive like that on the roads in the South east is just too dangerous. As soon as you are on the big A roads and dual carraigeways it would have to be a very special Elise to stay with the T350.
A lot of T350's have had spring / damper upgrades, which do appear to make a big difference to the handling. Things can be further improved by adjusting the corner weighting...but oversteer is always one twitch of the right foot away...The Elise was a fantastic car but not great on long drags and although more practical than given credit for, still was wearing.
The low end grunt of the Griff was great, led to lazy but fun driving, the pull in 3rd was awesome, but it was a pain at low speed around town and showed its age.
My T350 is fantastic around town v.easy to drive, Eurobox territory. It has more low end grunt at low revs than the Elise but more like the Elise at mid to high revs, loves to spin up and pulls like crazy.
It also handles very well, as mentioned handling is very specific to individual cars, the T350 might not go as well as a good Elise on the ultimate twisties, but I am finding that to drive like that on the roads in the South east is just too dangerous. As soon as you are on the big A roads and dual carraigeways it would have to be a very special Elise to stay with the T350.
Nobody's mentioned the noise of a 'speed 6' when compared to a 4 cylinder Honda unit...the 'speed 6' sound is addictive and sounds great throughout the rev range...but it doesn't need to be thrashed to make good progress...but work the engine hard and things get exiting very quickly..
Yee haa! said:
Interested to hear some thoughts really, or if anyone is around south manchester I'd appreciate a chat / ride out to really get an idea.
There's usually a T350 at Manchester/Cheshire TVRCC meets which take place on the second Tuesday of every month i.e. tonight!If you want to come along I'm sure you'd be welcome. It's at "Home" in Little Bollington near Altrincham (WA14 4SU) which should be convenient enough for you if you're in south Manchester.
I've got a na Honda Elise, and drove a sagaris for a week last year. The sag was quicker from low revs but didn't actually 'feel' it. Tbh I don't think there was much in it (the sag wasn't mine, so didn't push it too hard), and I'd say a TVR was the ideal "bigger grown up" Elise substitute.
My Elise happily revs from 2000 to the redline and is always on song (was mapped that way on purpose, so I think that helped when comparing to the TVR (vtec at 3700)). My Elise feels torquey in comparison to other Honda elises I've tried.
I don't think you'll regret it.
My Elise happily revs from 2000 to the redline and is always on song (was mapped that way on purpose, so I think that helped when comparing to the TVR (vtec at 3700)). My Elise feels torquey in comparison to other Honda elises I've tried.
I don't think you'll regret it.
Some good comparisons there, thanks
Shifty - I know home, that meet is no more than a few miles from me, looks like I'm tied up tonight which is a shame but at least the rain has stopped and the roads look good for a run out for you all. I definitely need to get out and have a closer look at one. There must be a couple of owners close to me. I've got too many questions at this point!
One thing I have ruled out at this point is the targa - I've done roof off to death and I'm liking the lines on the coupe right now.
Dift - nice to have a direct comparison from an owner of another revhappy honda. I suppose being sat closer to the road helps with the 'impression' of speed in the elise too. Mine is mapped for @3000 atm but we must have a slightly different setup as I'm 20bhp down on you looking at your profile!
Shifty - I know home, that meet is no more than a few miles from me, looks like I'm tied up tonight which is a shame but at least the rain has stopped and the roads look good for a run out for you all. I definitely need to get out and have a closer look at one. There must be a couple of owners close to me. I've got too many questions at this point!
One thing I have ruled out at this point is the targa - I've done roof off to death and I'm liking the lines on the coupe right now.
Dift - nice to have a direct comparison from an owner of another revhappy honda. I suppose being sat closer to the road helps with the 'impression' of speed in the elise too. Mine is mapped for @3000 atm but we must have a slightly different setup as I'm 20bhp down on you looking at your profile!
Yee haa! said:
Shifty - I know home, that meet is no more than a few miles from me, looks like I'm tied up tonight which is a shame but at least the rain has stopped and the roads look good for a run out for you all. I definitely need to get out and have a closer look at one. There must be a couple of owners close to me. I've got too many questions at this point!
No worries, if the guy's there tonight I'll ask him if he's on PH so he can message you if he wants.Having been on the track with a Sag Vs some Type R Elises and Exiges, when I actually got my lines right, there was little in it.
So I need a Power 4.5 or RG FFF (still waiting on the latter)!
I know which car looked and sounded the best though - if they are similar speed, what else do you want?
So I need a Power 4.5 or RG FFF (still waiting on the latter)!
I know which car looked and sounded the best though - if they are similar speed, what else do you want?
I had a S1 Honda Elise and had a Tuscan too. I sprint raced on track against a T350, the Elise won but driver ability and all that i guess it doesn't mean too much, and the T350 could hold it's own no doubt.
I am also considering a T350 amongst other options at the moment. As you say delivery completely different in the T350, corners are better resolved in the elise without doubt. Straight line speed is comparable, but the delivery and more torque of the straight six makes it feel somewhat different. Only 100+ does the power of the straight six really make the difference though imo.
Depends how you like to roll
The Elise it always felt like you had to be on it, in the rev band, with the straight six it's not like that. Chalk and Cheese.
I am also considering a T350 amongst other options at the moment. As you say delivery completely different in the T350, corners are better resolved in the elise without doubt. Straight line speed is comparable, but the delivery and more torque of the straight six makes it feel somewhat different. Only 100+ does the power of the straight six really make the difference though imo.
Depends how you like to roll
The Elise it always felt like you had to be on it, in the rev band, with the straight six it's not like that. Chalk and Cheese.I love both cars for their own habits (don't know how a T350 drives though, only from reading)
guess the T350 is a bit more car or grown up?
saying that growing up is not always what we want
how about the V6 yota Elise and the LS (V8) T350...
both have lots of torque at low revs, both fun-cars in their own ways...
the real "toy" must be the Elise in that case,
the more car would be the T350.
each has their own pros's and cons I think...its what you want from, and seek in a car I guess.
either way, the T350 is a bit more "car" if that is what you seek.
guess the T350 is a bit more car or grown up?
saying that growing up is not always what we want
how about the V6 yota Elise and the LS (V8) T350...
both have lots of torque at low revs, both fun-cars in their own ways...
the real "toy" must be the Elise in that case,
the more car would be the T350.
each has their own pros's and cons I think...its what you want from, and seek in a car I guess.
either way, the T350 is a bit more "car" if that is what you seek.
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