Paint bubbles/'rust' - Class action against AM
Paint bubbles/'rust' - Class action against AM
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Discussion

andyxxx

Original Poster:

1,420 posts

257 months

Wednesday 18th May 2011
quotequote all
My less than four year old car has ‘rust’ which is there due to a manufacturing issue/design error/god knows what. It should be rectified at no cost to me.

To me, it seems outrageous that AM are wriggling out of their obligation to rectify these issues under the warranty.

I am not a solicitor and have not consulted one because of the cost of taking on a corporate entity.

It amazes me that we are all taking this so quietly.

Is this not a prime example of an issue that should have a ‘class action’ against AM?

NigelStn

268 posts

197 months

Wednesday 18th May 2011
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I guess that a good start would be to find out how many cars/models are affected and in what time-frame? When I got an AM approved paint shop to give me an estimate to re-do both my doors they were aware that there was a problem over a certain time period with corrosion on parts of the door skins on AM's of a certain build time.

bogie

17,093 posts

302 months

Wednesday 18th May 2011
quotequote all
whos law are we doing it under...US or UK ?

..you are going to need real figures...1/2 dozen people on an internet forum out of 11,000 cars sold of a particular model, may just be enough to say "normal" small scale production error frown

Murph7355

42,007 posts

286 months

Wednesday 18th May 2011
quotequote all
There's not been enough time to tell at the moment. 2006 and 2007 cars affected from what I've read, but it's not consistent (which is often the case with bi-metallic reactions - this is what is causing the issue).

As for "class action"....the warranty conditions would need a very careful look. I would guess that the "corrosion" warranty probably involves perforation. Two problems with this (1) it may not be officially classed as corrosion and (2) perforation will likely take quite some time. My 7's paint bubbled on part of the side skin for exactly the same reason. Despite having been used in salty conditions, it took over 10yrs to actually penetrate the skin.

It's possible they licked the problem from 2008 onwards, but I guess we won't know for a year or two....logically, if the issue makes itself known 3-4yrs into ownership, by 2008 or 2009 they should have remedied it (if production started 2005-2006).

I guess AM (or it's warranty people) would be cautious in what it agrees to pay out until it understands the potential scale of the issue.

I've been offered a contribution to the repair, but mine's not bad enough yet to warrant taking the car off the road, and I'm pretty sure I can get it repaired outside the AM network for less than the "assisted" cost.

andyxxx

Original Poster:

1,420 posts

257 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
Nigelstn
Yes it would be a good place to start – but AM sure won’t release the figures and most owners with the problem don’t visit AM forums – so it will be impossible to get exact figures of the number of cars involved.

AM are most definately aware of the problem – but realizing the potential cost, are obviously wanting to wriggle out of their liability.

Bogie
I guess as the bulk of us on this forum bought and live in the UK – UK law.
I don’t know how many people would be needed – but lets say 40 off here would constitute a large number, out of lets say one hundred (at most)AM contributors???
Incidentally- I wouldn’t have thought they would use ‘normal’ small scale production error as an argument – that, to my mind is admitting responsibility.

Murph7355
I guess an initial consultation with a specialist law firm would tell us if there was a case against AMs warranty conditions.

To me – as a layman 10 year bodywork corrosion warranty is what it says on the tin – and they are liable.
Incidentally, Oxford Dictionary definition: corrode wear away, desroy gradually, be worn away, decay

We can all get a top quality job done at our own expense, significantly cheaper than AMs inflated spray jobs. The point is, we should not be having to pay this out on cars this young.




bogie

17,093 posts

302 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
the warranty is worded "perforation" though ...that could be a get out clause

although quite clearly a lot of owners are experiencing the problem ...of course if you are the 2nd or 3rd owner of an out of warranty car, you wont get much joy moaning about paint bubbles frown

My car has nearly every panel affected except maybe one wing where I havnt found it yet. Im certainly not going halves with a dealer on their extortionate respray costs.

So how about a list of affected cars and a nice letter to customer services asking for some kind of corrective action FOC ?

Or how about a thread on here, a sticky at the top called "Aston Martin Paint Defect Owners Thread" and we all post up pictures of our affected panels?


And if the affected panels thread is longer than the owners rides threads, then theres definately a PR problem that needs taking care of ....

markyV8

32 posts

195 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
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mine has two spots on the bottom of the door, one quite large, and a small bit around the handle. i took it to Works Service, as i live next door, and they admitted that it wasnt an uncommon fault but as it hadnt perforated they would only offer me a 50/50 split on respraying the door (its an 06 Vantage). £450!! so £900 to spray a door?
My dad has been trying to take it up with them as he was a paint sprayer there until he retired some years back so he knows the people quite well, but he's disgusted with it....

Mike Scott

422 posts

211 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
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I would be interested in seeing the outcome of this topic. It does seem to be happening to a fair few people and I am somewhat surprised that a brand such as Aston Martin isn’t making more of an effort to rectify a obvious design fault.

I was doing some research on this yesterday as I too had a topic running and it would seem that some people have managed to have the worked completed free of charge as it should be?????????

Audi admitted to a design fault with the DRC on the RS4 and therefore put out a 5 year free of charge repair / replacement……… That was only effecting around 15-20% of the cars.

Luckyluciano

2,398 posts

247 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
Having been through a similar situation with Nissan. I can tell you they will not admit anything
until your solicitor pushes it to court and only then will they sort it at their cost but still refuse
liability.

If you want to know the process I had to go through pm me.

yeti

10,697 posts

305 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
bogie said:
the warranty is worded "perforation" though ...that could be a get out clause
It's not even a get out clause, it's a statement of fact! Should corrosion be covered; you would think so... but is it... no. The fact they contribute is quite good I think, but if they are ramping up the costs in their own paintshops then in fact you're paying for it all!

Is it possible to get it sprayed where you choose and then have them pay half? That'd be a decent solution.

My car is 2006 and is perfect BTW. So it's not all of them by any means.

Steve*B

671 posts

238 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
yeti said:
My car is 2006 and is perfect BTW. So it's not all of them by any means.
You might want to take a closer look around the door handles.....I thought mine were perfect until Rick pointed it out.

drcarrera

796 posts

255 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
I had a similar problem on my three year old RS4 - paint bubbles on the aluminium doors.
After evaluation at a dealer, it was sorted out and covered 100% by the warranty.
If Audi will do it, why can't Aston?

bogie

17,093 posts

302 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
drcarrera said:
I had a similar problem on my three year old RS4 - paint bubbles on the aluminium doors.
After evaluation at a dealer, it was sorted out and covered 100% by the warranty.
If Audi will do it, why can't Aston?
cost probably ...if they know how many years worth of production are affected

probably some kind of poor process control in paint shop ...someone touching the panels before/during paint process with greasy/contaminated fingers

GlynMo

1,142 posts

279 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
bogie said:
...someone touching the panels before/during paint process with greasy/contaminated fingers
IIRC, that's the problem with the V8V doors around the handles.

mikey k

13,074 posts

246 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
Has this problem been seen on newer cars painted via the robotic system at Gaydon or do they all date back to the manual spray system days?

I'm guess the problem is caused by some sort of contamination that encourages the Al to oxides whilst under the paint.

IMHO you haven't got a hope with a Class Action. Just not enough data on the problem.
Has any one ever won one against a car company for some thing similar?
Alfa's rust buckets?

mikey k

13,074 posts

246 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
BTW has any one got any pictures of the bubbles and locations?
I've never seen it and others might benefit from knowing what to look for!

Luckyluciano

2,398 posts

247 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
mikey k said:
Has this problem been seen on newer cars painted via the robotic system at Gaydon or do they all date back to the manual spray system days?

I'm guess the problem is caused by some sort of contamination that encourages the Al to oxides whilst under the paint.

IMHO you haven't got a hope with a Class Action. Just not enough data on the problem.
Has any one ever won one against a car company for some thing similar?
Alfa's rust buckets?
I won against nissan but it did take 8 months.

I don't think it is contamination but where the steel framework touches the aluminum skin.

rick-derby-

1,105 posts

217 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
main points

1, around the edge of each outer door handle,
2, bottom edge of doors,
3, top edge of windscreen usually towards the outer edges
4, where the roof meets the rear screen and the pillar running down along the rear screen there is a join point,
5, front underside of bonnet
6, along the edge of the front wing where it meets the bonnet,

these are the main areas to check in many cases they are quite small and not easily noticed until pointed out,

mikey k

13,074 posts

246 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
rick-derby- said:
main points

1, around the edge of each outer door handle,
2, bottom edge of doors,
3, top edge of windscreen usually towards the outer edges
4, where the roof meets the rear screen and the pillar running down along the rear screen there is a join point,
5, front underside of bonnet
6, along the edge of the front wing where it meets the bonnet,

these are the main areas to check in many cases they are quite small and not easily noticed until pointed out,
Thanks as ever Rick!
I have a roadster so at least there's no need to worry about the roof ones! laugh
Surprised at 5 & 6 as those are "composite" parts! confused

bogie

17,093 posts

302 months

Thursday 19th May 2011
quotequote all
"Surprised at 5 & 6 as those are "composite" parts! "

exactly - its not corrosion...well i dont think it is, i just think its something under the paint/between coats that shouldnt be there

difficult to claim against warranty with a plastic car wink

Lotus have/had similar issues with their paint over the last 7-8 years...not sure how different their process is, but its low volume non robot production (or was)

could be as simple as someone picking up and moving the panels with the wrong gloves on ...Im sure the factory QA people must know, otherwise theyd be turning out every car like it now still

..but they cant admit to anything, of the floodgates will open with thousands of owners turning up at dealers to get imaginary stuff inspected...and some not so imaginary wink