My V8V BR mods review and clutch wear pictures

[petesv8v]

Last week I collected my car, a 2007 model year V8V with 29000 miles, after having Bamford Rose fit the induction, exhaust, twin plate clutch and lightened fly wheel upgrade. I had considered selling outright as well as trading in for a newer model however decided to keep the car for another few years and therefore to upgrade and in so doing refresh the ownership experience. Having experienced with other marques the benefit of a well designed exhaust manifold and better induction the decision to change the exhaust was therefore quite straightforward and to me a proven path to better performance. As has been recorded here before it makes a significant difference and in everyday driving scenarios the car pulls very strongly in the mid range with even modest throttle application making for a much more effortless progress than with the standard set up. Nailing the throttle produces markedly better acceleration with 70 mph noticeably more quickly achieved however at which point obviously the test was curtailed; one is left to only imagine how much more strongly the car will now pull to 120 mph and beyond. The throttle response is sharper however as I have the lightened flywheel as well I cannot say what the response changes are with just the exhaust. In an attempt to summarise the changes, the overall effect is not as equivalent as say dropping a gear in the standard set up but close to say half a gear if that makes sense!.
Fuel economy is another benefit and as far as I have been able to compare journeys pre and post modification it would seem the car is doing about 3 -4 mpg more.
The exhaust / induction mod is effective changing and improving markedly the character of the car. It of course replaces a totally serviceable original part so you are not probably offsetting an inevitable cost by changing. There may in due course be service life issues with the 200 cell cats versus the original, who knows, as is whether a Bamford Rose system will be seen as positive come sale time.

The clutch change was a more difficult decision as it had not failed nor was it giving me any specific issues but I had always been dissatisfied with its overall operation and a constant detractor to the driving experience. I was also conscious of the reports of failures and sudden ones at much lower mileages than mine. The clutch reputation was I felt likely to haunt resale in due course. If I were to sell at say 50000 miles on original clutch then for sure a buyer would look to capitalise on this. Then there was the sods law scenario where you have to have the clutch changed and barely get any benefit as it is just before you sell or you have to change in order to sell. So I decided to have it changed and enjoy the benefits including who knows even perhaps financial.
The lightened flywheel must be taken with the twin plate clutch. A lightened flywheel whilst helping the engine to spin up can have an adverse effect such as on idle and low speed ‘driveability’ however I can report no such negative effects with the BR unit. The engine is more throttle responsive and heal and toe changes are now fun again.
The clutch, at least for me has not been a ‘press and play’ experience as it does need some learning however its early days and we are definitely bonding! The pedal is lighter in operation and the bite point lower. A side effect is to demonstrate how the standard clutch maligns the gearbox which becomes much nicer to use with the new clutch set up.
The clutch should now last for many years and seen in the context of its cost premium over a full including flywheel standard change cost has to worthy of consideration by any one facing clutch problems. It is to be hoped that the BR clutch set up will be seen as a positive benefit to prospective future owners.
On the issues of clutch wear, I was able to see my 29000 mile old unit and it was in remarkable condition. My motoring is a fair mix with about 25% stop start, 30% A and B road and balance motorway. Adrian showed me a clutch from another V8V with less than 10,000 miles and it was shot. Here are pictures of the two units which graphically illustrate the state of the friction lining. So it seems the V8V clutch is not necessarily a part of very limited life no matter how you drive but is perhaps more wear susceptible than some to how it is used

[Lunablack]

To me...those 2 clutches, emphasise the difference between someone who knows how to operate a clutch correctly, and with some mechanical sympathy... And someone who hasn't got a clue...

I see no reason for that type of wear at 10k miles, other than abuse... Simple as that

[jonby]

thanks for the very helpful & informative write up, for myself and I'm sure others on here

I'm aware of the cost of the BR manifold/exhaust set up which has been posted on here

Are you comfortable giving an indication of the cost of the flywheel/twin plate clutch upgrade ? If not, perhaps Mike would ?

Also, did you consider the upgrade to the gearshift linkage and if so, why didn't you go for it ? I see you comment the gearchange improved noticably without it, just as a result of the clutch upgrades

[v8woollie]

Thanks for your experiences and they seem to follow the general concensus that this is the best bag for the buck in V8V tuning.

It is making my wait for this to be done to mine almost unbearable

[DAMIT]

Lunablack said:

To me...those 2 clutches, emphasise the difference between someone who knows how to operate a clutch correctly, and with some mechanical sympathy... And someone who hasn't got a clue...

I see no reason for that type of wear at 10k miles, other than abuse... Simple as that

But it still doesn't explain why sportshift clutch problems can occur at similar low miles

[yeti]

DAMIT said:

But it still doesn't explain why sportshift clutch problems can occur at similar low miles

Poor useage! A lot of reversing (very tall gear), constant stop starts and so on are not good for a robotic manual.

Does SS have an auto mode like the Maserati system? That used to murder their clutches...

[steveatesh]

Is there any reason other than a will to do so, why AM can't use the Bamford Rose double clutch system as part of the manufacturing process?

As an end user i'm not even sure what the difference is although the clue is in the name I suppose, BUT lots of people on here' keep saying the new models should have one and yet AM appear not to listen even though there is a ready made solution?

You would think the perception of a weak clutch would not do the brand any good and would be something they would be keen to overcome ASAP.

[mikey k]

yeti said:

DAMIT said:

But it still doesn't explain why sportshift clutch problems can occur at similar low miles

Poor useage! A lot of reversing (very tall gear), constant stop starts and so on are not good for a robotic manual.

Does SS have an auto mode like the Maserati system? That used to murder their clutches...

I seem to recall a young chap posting recently that his mums V8V ASM1 had never had a "clutch learn" and only been used for short journeys. It had eaten its clutch jast outside the warranty at fairly low mileage IIRC.

The ASM 1 box also has creep mode which automcatically slips the clutch to help you creep along
ASM2 does a clutch learn each time you start it , no creep mode and has a better reverse gear (leasons learnt )

[v8woollie]

No-one had said the OEM clutch is weak. Some get 10k miles out of one and some 50k miles. A lot depends on driving style.

I'm not sure AM would ever acknowledge BR's work as they are in essence making the V8V into what AM maybe should have made it in the first place. I am sure if AM had wanted to fit better manifolds and cats they could have done, just as they could have fitted a stronger twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel. In later V8Vs they probably did.

Of course since the BR chaps are from AM they will know better why AM chose the things that they did and equally they are well placed to address the shortcomIngs of the factory design. Personally I am always happier to have engineering solutions to increase drivability rather than software mods and ECU remapping, just as I prefer more torque to more bhp.

Edited by v8woollie on Wednesday 9th May 16:53

[Lunablack]

DAMIT said:

But it still doesn't explain why sportshift clutch problems can occur at similar low miles

Poor technique and lack of sympathy in a sport shift is no different to the same issues in a manual in my view

[DAMIT]

Lunablack said:

Poor technique and lack of sympathy in a sport shift is no different to the same issues in a manual in my view

Sorry don't understand. What poor technique and lack of sympathy are we talking about? I just can't see how you can mess up a flip of a paddle!

[Lunablack]

DAMIT said:

Sorry don't understand. What poor technique and lack of sympathy are we talking about? I just can't see how you can mess up a flip of a paddle!

I've never driven a paddle so am only guessing..... But how's about nailing it from standing starts,being in the wrong gear for the given speed, and overuse of creep mode... Which if I understand correctly is the same as riding the clutch in a manual

Edited by Lunablack on Wednesday 9th May 20:08

[F1 NDW]

The secret with the flappy paddle gearbox is to have the engine revs in the clutch take up range for the shortest period possible.
The driver has to understand this and concentrate when driving. It is the creeping along with in the clutch bite engine range that
wears the clutch out very quickly.

[yeti]

steveatesh said:

Is there any reason other than a will to do so, why AM can't use the Bamford Rose double clutch system as part of the manufacturing process?

As an end user i'm not even sure what the difference is although the clue is in the name I suppose, BUT lots of people on here' keep saying the new models should have one and yet AM appear not to listen even though there is a ready made solution?

You would think the perception of a weak clutch would not do the brand any good and would be something they would be keen to overcome ASAP.

The BR clutch is >very< similar to that used in the One-77, so AM are familiar with it. The DB9/DBS clutch is a lovely strong twin plate design and fits straight into the Vantage. It is not adopted purely and simply based on cost. The Vantage is a cheaper car than the DB9 and has cheaper components in places. Much like comparing a Boxster to a 911 or Gallardo to Murcielago.

However the Vantage clutch isn't weak, it's pretty much industry standard, there are just lots of people who trash clutches in all types of sports cars then moan on forums

The cost thing also applies to manifolds and cats and taken to extremes, getting 100bhp/litre out of engines! It's all possible, but it costs a lot of money. Astons, for what they are i.e. low volume, hand-made, luxurious, high-performance sports GTs are actually pretty cheap!

I have always said Aston should make less compromised cars and charge more. Sell less, charge more, but make them without compromise. Too many accountants

[Tony V12V]

yeti said:

.... Astons, for what they are i.e. low volume, hand-made, luxurious, high-performance sports GTs are actually pretty cheap!

I have always said Aston should make less compromised cars and charge more. Sell less, charge more, but make them without compromise. Too many accountants

A friend of mine that came on a factory tour to see my V12V on the line (was stacked in the paint rack as it happened) has always maintained that since seeing what goes into an Aston He feels they are "good value for the money" Something I always have a laugh about when I see Simon (our guide) at future visits.

[mikey k]

DAMIT said:

Sorry don't understand. What poor technique and lack of sympathy are we talking about? I just can't see how you can mess up a flip of a paddle!

Luna is thinking of lots of creep no learn and up hill reversing. All things I have avoided in both mine

Edited by mikey k on Thursday 10th May 09:14

[Retman]

yeti said:

Too many accountants

Impossible.