Tyre Comparison - P Zero Massive Fail
Discussion
Although I was aware that all of the subjective reviews rate the Michelin PSS to be superior to the P-Zero, I didn't realize HOW superior it was.
In a recent 9-tyre comparison test by C&D, it was the only tyre scoring below 100 points (94), while the PSS scored 143 out of a possible 160. The next lowest tyre scored 106. The gap between the 1st place PSS and the 2nd place tyre was 16 points (127).
If it wasn't for the "Real-World Factors" category where the P-Zero and PSS tied (worth a max of 20 points), it would have been even worse for the P-Zero. It scored 49 vs 80 for the PSS in the "Dry Performance" category and 28 vs 47 for the PSS in the "Wet Performance" category. And in both categories the P-Zero was last.
Any way, even the reviewers were "surpised", to put it mildly.
In a recent 9-tyre comparison test by C&D, it was the only tyre scoring below 100 points (94), while the PSS scored 143 out of a possible 160. The next lowest tyre scored 106. The gap between the 1st place PSS and the 2nd place tyre was 16 points (127).
If it wasn't for the "Real-World Factors" category where the P-Zero and PSS tied (worth a max of 20 points), it would have been even worse for the P-Zero. It scored 49 vs 80 for the PSS in the "Dry Performance" category and 28 vs 47 for the PSS in the "Wet Performance" category. And in both categories the P-Zero was last.
Any way, even the reviewers were "surpised", to put it mildly.
which manufacturer was sponsoring the track etc when doing the testing? usually you dig into these things far enough and you find out some tyre companies marketing budget funded the whole thing...and naturally their tyres come out well
so much is subjective with these things ...and im just more cynical about them each year...
take off your old worn tyres and fit new ones of pretty much any premium brand and you will think they are better...which they are of course
so much is subjective with these things ...and im just more cynical about them each year...
take off your old worn tyres and fit new ones of pretty much any premium brand and you will think they are better...which they are of course
bogie said:
which manufacturer was sponsoring the track etc when doing the testing? usually you dig into these things far enough and you find out some tyre companies marketing budget funded the whole thing...and naturally their tyres come out well
so much is subjective with these things ...and im just more cynical about them each year...
take off your old worn tyres and fit new ones of pretty much any premium brand and you will think they are better...which they are of course
Test was conducted by C&D at Tire Rack's test facility. Car was BMW E92 coupe and the tyres were supplied by Tire Rack. So the only limitation of the test, as far as I can see, was the fact that Tire Rack doesn't sell every single performance tyre that is made. They tested Yokohama, Dunlop, Hankook, Toyo, Continental, Goodyear and Bridgestone (S-04 Pole Position), which was the 2nd place tyre. So tyres like Nitto or Vresdestein weren't candidates.so much is subjective with these things ...and im just more cynical about them each year...
take off your old worn tyres and fit new ones of pretty much any premium brand and you will think they are better...which they are of course
All in all a very interesting test. You may not believe the results, but at least objective testing is better than purely subjective evaluations.
yeti said:
Oh no, I'll have to change mine now 
I'll stick with them, they work well on my car
No one is suggesting your tyres don't work, just that the PSS is really as good as people have been saying in forums. It would be foolish not to consider the PSS when replacing tyres on your car.I'll stick with them, they work well on my car
alpinepass said:
I have my MY06 V8V booked in for service next tuesday, there is a set of PSS's at the garage waiting to be fitted. Will report back next week...
I look forward to hearing about your experiences. I used Michelin Pilots on my BMW a few years back and always like them. Conti Sport Contacts were on the S4 and I wasn't so keen on them but now I will soon need new rears for the V8V I am wondering about the PSS as an alterative to the Bridgestones.I've been very happy with the Bridgestones on my V8s
I was very happy with the PSS on my Audis
So when I get V12VR, will be in a dilemma - PZero Corsa, PZero or PSS. I don't get why so many manufacturers of high end sports cars fit PZero/ZeroCorsa if they aren't a great tyre, at the very least in optimum conditions ? Tyres are so importnat to the handling - would so many manufactureres forgo handling advantages for other 'commercial' reasons
I was very happy with the PSS on my Audis
So when I get V12VR, will be in a dilemma - PZero Corsa, PZero or PSS. I don't get why so many manufacturers of high end sports cars fit PZero/ZeroCorsa if they aren't a great tyre, at the very least in optimum conditions ? Tyres are so importnat to the handling - would so many manufactureres forgo handling advantages for other 'commercial' reasons
jonby said:
I've been very happy with the Bridgestones on my V8s
I was very happy with the PSS on my Audis
So when I get V12VR, will be in a dilemma - PZero Corsa, PZero or PSS. I don't get why so many manufacturers of high end sports cars fit PZero/ZeroCorsa if they aren't a great tyre, at the very least in optimum conditions ? Tyres are so importnat to the handling - would so many manufactureres forgo handling advantages for other 'commercial' reasons
Putting P Zeros on my R - had my Corsas taken off and Zeros put on my V12V and it feels much more planted in damp conditions.I was very happy with the PSS on my Audis
So when I get V12VR, will be in a dilemma - PZero Corsa, PZero or PSS. I don't get why so many manufacturers of high end sports cars fit PZero/ZeroCorsa if they aren't a great tyre, at the very least in optimum conditions ? Tyres are so importnat to the handling - would so many manufactureres forgo handling advantages for other 'commercial' reasons
I have had the new Pilot Super Sports on for the past 2 months (after the old bridgestones wore out). Car is a 2006 with sports pack, N400 power upgrade, 200 cell cats, exhaust and performance filters.
When I go out and push the car hard on in the same roads I would frequent in the Texas hill country I literally can feel the difference in how the car pulls through the turns. It is a very noticeable difference but again the "stones" were worn out. The car feels better now than it ever has, and I can not wait to take it to the track as I have yet to make the tyres sing around a turn (old stones would howl in protest)
Also of note: car rides smoother and i can hear more rocks/etc kicking up so I am assuming they are stickier.
Besides the test results, what really did it for me was the extremely long wear rating. You will not look back.
When I go out and push the car hard on in the same roads I would frequent in the Texas hill country I literally can feel the difference in how the car pulls through the turns. It is a very noticeable difference but again the "stones" were worn out. The car feels better now than it ever has, and I can not wait to take it to the track as I have yet to make the tyres sing around a turn (old stones would howl in protest)
Also of note: car rides smoother and i can hear more rocks/etc kicking up so I am assuming they are stickier.
Besides the test results, what really did it for me was the extremely long wear rating. You will not look back.
EBruce said:
I have had the new Pilot Super Sports on for the past 2 months (after the old bridgestones wore out). Car is a 2006 with sports pack, N400 power upgrade, 200 cell cats, exhaust and performance filters.
When I go out and push the car hard on in the same roads I would frequent in the Texas hill country I literally can feel the difference in how the car pulls through the turns. It is a very noticeable difference but again the "stones" were worn out. The car feels better now than it ever has, and I can not wait to take it to the track as I have yet to make the tyres sing around a turn (old stones would howl in protest)
Also of note: car rides smoother and i can hear more rocks/etc kicking up so I am assuming they are stickier.
Besides the test results, what really did it for me was the extremely long wear rating. You will not look back.
Do you have the Michelins on all 4 corners?When I go out and push the car hard on in the same roads I would frequent in the Texas hill country I literally can feel the difference in how the car pulls through the turns. It is a very noticeable difference but again the "stones" were worn out. The car feels better now than it ever has, and I can not wait to take it to the track as I have yet to make the tyres sing around a turn (old stones would howl in protest)
Also of note: car rides smoother and i can hear more rocks/etc kicking up so I am assuming they are stickier.
Besides the test results, what really did it for me was the extremely long wear rating. You will not look back.
What pressures were you running with the Bridgestones and the Michelins?
Apart from stones, are you getting more general tyre noise?
How many miles did you get out of your Bridgestones?
I'm close to replacing my rears and was going to ask if someone had tried both...
Last question - are they worth circa 20% more money than the Bridgestones?
Murph7355 said:
Do you have the Michelins on all 4 corners?
What pressures were you running with the Bridgestones and the Michelins?
Apart from stones, are you getting more general tyre noise?
How many miles did you get out of your Bridgestones?
I'm close to replacing my rears and was going to ask if someone had tried both...
Last question - are they worth circa 20% more money than the Bridgestones?
Murph-PSS on all 4 corners. My old bridgestones still had life in the front, but I wanted all 4 to be new and the same type.What pressures were you running with the Bridgestones and the Michelins?
Apart from stones, are you getting more general tyre noise?
How many miles did you get out of your Bridgestones?
I'm close to replacing my rears and was going to ask if someone had tried both...
Last question - are they worth circa 20% more money than the Bridgestones?
The same pressures on both. I kept them to the recommended pressure.
Regarding noise, my car is so loud all you can here is the engine. That being said if I am in a tall gear with RPM low you can not hear any tyre noise at all.
Bridgestones were new when the sport pack was added about 8 or 9k miles ago.
Tyres seem to be like anything, they continue to improve and get better. For me, I wanted my car to have the best rubber that was out at the moment (IMO) for daily driving and also for when I wanted to go through the twisties. Tyres are such an important part of the car and the improvement I felt was well worth the additional 20% or so...
As i mentioned above, look at the tread life too.....when you factor in the difference you are actually saving money! Good luck.
Thanks for that.
Only toying with a change at the moment. End of the day the Bridgestones give all the grip it needs really. But you never can tell and things like road noise, performance in the wet and wear rates often improve markedly.
Mind you, my car's exhaust is louder than the tyres like yours, I never go full tilt in the wet on public roads and I get 23k miles out of the Bridgestones So maybe I should just leave it...
Only toying with a change at the moment. End of the day the Bridgestones give all the grip it needs really. But you never can tell and things like road noise, performance in the wet and wear rates often improve markedly.
Mind you, my car's exhaust is louder than the tyres like yours, I never go full tilt in the wet on public roads and I get 23k miles out of the Bridgestones
So maybe I should just leave it...A few days of running with the Michelin PSS's under the belt, so time for first impressions..
My first impression running along the autoroute to go home was that they had fitted a new exhaust!! Simple fact was that the tyre noise and harshness had all but gone. Cruising in the car is transformed and much more pleasant. Handling wise on the autoroute the car is less "darty" about the straight ahead and more relaxing to steer. As for getting on it, overall grip is better but not by much, however the car doesn't get upset as much by bumps so they hang on a lot better than the bridgestones and you can lean on them a lot harder. Feel is a bit subjective but to me they load up nicely in a more progressive way and without the "dartiness". Bump steer is much reduced too. Oh and all the loose change in the ashtray doesnt rattle anymore..
So all in all a no-brainer really...
My first impression running along the autoroute to go home was that they had fitted a new exhaust!! Simple fact was that the tyre noise and harshness had all but gone. Cruising in the car is transformed and much more pleasant. Handling wise on the autoroute the car is less "darty" about the straight ahead and more relaxing to steer. As for getting on it, overall grip is better but not by much, however the car doesn't get upset as much by bumps so they hang on a lot better than the bridgestones and you can lean on them a lot harder. Feel is a bit subjective but to me they load up nicely in a more progressive way and without the "dartiness". Bump steer is much reduced too. Oh and all the loose change in the ashtray doesnt rattle anymore..
So all in all a no-brainer really...
Hmm, old tyres swapped for new tyres... new tyres are better? No way? Way!
Spent a (very) wet day at Millbrook yesterday on my part worn Pirellis, they were excellent at high speed, for standing start grip, lateral G on hairpins, preictable drifting on the handling circuit, everything. Can't compare them to Michelins but if these are the OEM recommended tyre for Aston than I'll stick with them when I need a new set.
And on the drive home with exhaust on silent, no tyre noise. Guess we all have different cars and set ups. Or just expectations
Spent a (very) wet day at Millbrook yesterday on my part worn Pirellis, they were excellent at high speed, for standing start grip, lateral G on hairpins, preictable drifting on the handling circuit, everything. Can't compare them to Michelins but if these are the OEM recommended tyre for Aston than I'll stick with them when I need a new set.
And on the drive home with exhaust on silent, no tyre noise. Guess we all have different cars and set ups. Or just expectations
Not on the same car but defeinetely the same tyres- I found the Pzero's snapped away with little or no warning whereas the Michelins gripped and gripped and gripped then very progresively broke away.
My P Zeros also seemed to pick up punctures very quickly and were difficult to balance - switched to Ps's and that all changed
My P Zeros also seemed to pick up punctures very quickly and were difficult to balance - switched to Ps's and that all changed
yeti said:
Hmm, old tyres swapped for new tyres... new tyres are better? No way? Way!
Spent a (very) wet day at Millbrook yesterday on my part worn Pirellis, they were excellent at high speed, for standing start grip, lateral G on hairpins, preictable drifting on the handling circuit, everything. Can't compare them to Michelins but if these are the OEM recommended tyre for Aston than I'll stick with them when I need a new set.
And on the drive home with exhaust on silent, no tyre noise. Guess we all have different cars and set ups. Or just expectations
I would agree that making comparisons on grip and feel when comparing old bridgestones to new michelins is a little dodgy, however the NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) comparison is valid and the michelins are much better. Spent a (very) wet day at Millbrook yesterday on my part worn Pirellis, they were excellent at high speed, for standing start grip, lateral G on hairpins, preictable drifting on the handling circuit, everything. Can't compare them to Michelins but if these are the OEM recommended tyre for Aston than I'll stick with them when I need a new set.
And on the drive home with exhaust on silent, no tyre noise. Guess we all have different cars and set ups. Or just expectations
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