NEW Vantage - not tweaked but really, really new!

[Molly GT]

This question is currently under debate in the GT household. I expect it has been done to death here already but tell me what you know ......

When do you think a really proper, completely all new Vantage model will be launched?

[jonby]

Molly GT said:

This question is currently under debate in the GT household. I expect it has been done to death here already but tell me what you know ......

When do you think a really proper, completely all new Vantage model will be launched?

I don't think it can be that far away. new DB9/Virage and facelifted Rapide will all have been shown by the end of this yr. One assumes Vanquish Volante will be shown next year. One assumes there could be some new new models shown next yr i.e. in new segments, such as an SUV. But for obvious reasons, it will be a short lead in time between showing new Vantage and delivering, as otherwise sales of existing vantage will collapse

unfortunately, we all know that you could walk in the showroom one day and buy an unregistered vantage for a fullish price off the floor, to find a new vantage announced the next day for deliveries in just a few months time. My best guess is an announcement some time between late next yr and mid 2014, for deliveries at some stage in 2014

[Neil1300R]

Very very soon. Its available on 0% finance at the moment. Last month the deal was for the Virage. So new Vantage out in the next couple of months!
Or it will be a Vantage in The Emperors New clothes i.e. we can play spot the difference

[jonby]

Neil1300R said:

Very very soon. Its available on 0% finance at the moment. Last month the deal was for the Virage. So new Vantage out in the next couple of months!
Or it will be a Vantage in The Emperors New clothes i.e. we can play spot the difference

virage has a 20k+ contribution from the factory ! they have too much on their plate to launch it this side of geneva 2013

[mikey k]

ALL new is along way off as they will be using VH platforms for many moons (still plenty left in that cash cow)
Having recently reworked the panels I'd guess at least 3-4 years for another refresh (based on 4.3 and prefacelift 4.7 life cycles)
I'm guessing they are busy working out the parts bin jigsaw for the DBish models, selling some Rapides & Virages to clear stock and taking orders on Vanquish & Zagota to meet suppliers contracts.

[robgt]

Thankyou to my dear Wife for starting this one off! I am a bit concerned as to what will happen next year. The Vantage is AM's volume seller. We now have the Vanquish, new DB9 and Rapide all being new models with the possibility of Volante versions for two of them. The Vantage is now some 7 years old. Setting aside that I love mine I feel that a new model will be forthcoming next year. On introduction it was assumed that it would be a rival to the 911. As to wether it is or not is of no concern to me . I feel that where we will see a change is in the weight of the car. That aspect is any performance cars greatest enemy. AM seem to be now pushing quite hard in racing circles, the Vantage GTE is certainly competitive. Racing improves the breed , as a consequence where I feel the change will come will be in the form of the body being made from carbon fibre. That alone will make an enormous difference to all aspects of the Vantage. The tooling will all be in place already, probably at no extra cost to the manufacturing process. I am no expert but I would guess at 80-90 Kilo loss in weight. That would be just for starters. Some tweaking with the already fabulous looks and there you have it.

Everything Dr. Bez told me has so far come true. He also stated that there would be something new for their 100th year!

My concern is depreciation on my car and the inevitable expensive jump to the new one.

Your thoughts and ideas please.

[jonby]

robgt said:

Thankyou to my dear Wife for starting this one off! I am a bit concerned as to what will happen next year. The Vantage is AM's volume seller. We now have the Vanquish, new DB9 and Rapide all being new models with the possibility of Volante versions for two of them. The Vantage is now some 7 years old. Setting aside that I love mine I feel that a new model will be forthcoming next year. On introduction it was assumed that it would be a rival to the 911. As to wether it is or not is of no concern to me . I feel that where we will see a change is in the weight of the car. That aspect is any performance cars greatest enemy. AM seem to be now pushing quite hard in racing circles, the Vantage GTE is certainly competitive. Racing improves the breed , as a consequence where I feel the change will come will be in the form of the body being made from carbon fibre. That alone will make an enormous difference to all aspects of the Vantage. The tooling will all be in place already, probably at no extra cost to the manufacturing process. I am no expert but I would guess at 80-90 Kilo loss in weight. That would be just for starters. Some tweaking with the already fabulous looks and there you have it.

Everything Dr. Bez told me has so far come true. He also stated that there would be something new for their 100th year!

My concern is depreciation on my car and the inevitable expensive jump to the new one.

Your thoughts and ideas please.

I had assumed 100th yr car was Vanquish ? I still wouldn't rule out something new new (i.e. not a replacement for a current model) but whilst I think it will be sooner than mikey does, I agree with him that with vanquish, vanquish volante, new/facelift rapide & 'new' db9, not forgetting zagato & V12VR, they will get all that out of the way first and the very earliest we will see vantage replacement actually delivered is Q2 2014 - I don't see a facelift taking place on current vantage inbetween. Of course this all gets confusing depending on your interpretation of the words 'new' & 'facelift'

[yeti]

Can't see a carbon body on the range's base car - the 911, Maseratis and Bentley don't have it so no need for AML to use one. However, a 'GTE spec road car' in carbon would be very cool and they could charge whatever they liked for that, much like a GT3 RS/Suderia holo model type-thing...

It'll use the VH platform and the same mix of aluminium and composite panels, just probably a MUCH edgier design like the 310quish with the usual 'inspired by the One-77' bits on it. Could look rather good if not overdone! Needs to be 5+ litres though and making 450bhp, either that or forced induction... maybe back to the supercharged straight 6 or V8

[mikey k]

+1 to Yeti's comments
AM need a more efficent more powerful engine range and some sort of CF body system (I guess as a development of VH)
I just hope they don't simply go down the 2cosmetic" route and continue over styling things

[Mr Aston Martin]

I think your more likely to hear of mergers/alliance with another manufacturer before a new Vantage is launched.

Unfortunately.

Restyling and incremental increases in performance will rolled out with AML gradually losing market share. Arguably a few years off but I don't see the lack of investment from the competition and that does not bode well.

[robgt]

I take on board some of the points raised, though producing a lighter car is without doubt the way forward. There is nothing wrong with the VH platform , that in itself could go on a diet if it was hauling less weight. Seeing how relatively easy it has been to extract 456 bhp from my engine I am sure AM can achieve the same (albeit by a different means).

[Jon39]

My car ownership has mostly been on a 'buy and keep long-term' basis (still have my very first car, a 1964 Mini Cooper). Therefore when a new Vantage is introduced, I expect to be keeping my 4·7 Model Year 2009 car.

Aston Martin seem to have adopted a recent design trend of aerodynamic bodywork add-ons. On a road car, exagerated fins and wings, indented creases and running boards, are not my favourite body features. I might be alone with that view, but I am quite happy with the understated, and smooth design of the V8 Vantage, Model Years from 2009 to 2011.

Only Morgan (and possibly Porsche) can succeed by continuing with the same design though. As the Vantage model has been a big seller, Aston Martin will eventually need to replace it with a car of stunning design and wide appeal. Probably not an easy task.

[Murph7355]

At the V8 homecoming I asked about model replacement cycles...

The response I got was to note the lifecycle of the DB7 and suggestions that might be considered the "norm".

If so, late 2014 would seem sensible (I think their MY cycles are around September still?), maybe a bit later. IF funds aren't the problem many think they may be.

VH was clever 10+yrs ago but I suspect it might have too many compromises now (interior space, suspension lay out, weight, rigidity). Equally powerplants and drive trains have moved on a lot in the last 10yrs - do we see Aston being able to do direct injection, dsg gearboxes etc? I can't, not without a tie up with another major manufacturer and there doesn't seem to be anything on this front in any of the mags etc...? Like it or not, these sorts of technology are rapidly becoming commonplace now and will be a necessity in 3yrs or so.

Similarly, if we were going to get a new car in 12-18mths' time, wouldn't we have started to see leaked shots of it by now? Instead of a Virage rebadged a DB9.

I can quite easily see further modest tweaks to the current car happening for at least 2-3yrs (new headlamps, DB9 tail lamps, different bootlid). Beyond that I really don't know. I can see the firm being sold more than a properly new base model...

[mikey k]

robgt said:

I take on board some of the points raised, though producing a lighter car is without doubt the way forward. There is nothing wrong with the VH platform , that in itself could go on a diet if it was hauling less weight. Seeing how relatively easy it has been to extract 456 bhp from my engine I am sure AM can achieve the same (albeit by a different means).

It's not the VH chassis that adds the weight it's all the other stuff - like a solid billet fuel caps, heavy engines etc

[robgt]

I agree with you Mikey, so much could be done to reduce weight without compromising the quality of the build. Slightly off topic I know but Molly and I saw a Morgan the other day, it looked really nice . It turned out that it was No.48 of a run of 60 cars fitted with a Mazda 2.0ltr engine. What a good idea, now of course you can have one with a BMW engine. That is one mad car! The V.A.G group is now made up of so many diverse manufacturers who will all be sharing technology ,surely AM could forge a relationship with a manufacturer to supply light upto date engines which could then be modded to suit.

I am sure all will be revealed in the coming months
.

[George H]

robgt said:

I agree with you Mikey, so much could be done to reduce weight without compromising the quality of the build. Slightly off topic I know but Molly and I saw a Morgan the other day, it looked really nice . It turned out that it was No.48 of a run of 60 cars fitted with a Mazda 2.0ltr engine. What a good idea, now of course you can have one with a BMW engine. That is one mad car! The V.A.G group is now made up of so many diverse manufacturers who will all be sharing technology ,surely AM could forge a relationship with a manufacturer to supply light upto date engines which could then be modded to suit.

I am sure all will be revealed in the coming months
.

AMG engines would be a great supplier for Aston. 6 litre twin turbo V12 for the top of the range model (Vanquish), 6.2 N/A V8 for the mid range (DB9) and 5.5 turbo V8 for the entry level of the range (V8V). Coupled with a dual clutch automated manual gearbox it would be perfect

And you could even convert the automated manual to a proper manual to keep Yeti happy - Porsche have done it in the 991 with a 7 speed manual and a 7 speed PDK.

[robgt]

Now we are getting somewhere. AM are you listening? With AMG there would not be mutterings of compromise. I am confident Dr. Bez has a plan. The last thing we want is Aston Martin to lose their hard won independence.

[Mr Aston Martin]

robgt said:

Now we are getting somewhere. AM are you listening? With AMG there would not be mutterings of compromise. I am confident Dr. Bez has a plan. The last thing we want is Aston Martin to lose their hard won independence.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/aston-martin-owner-wont-sell While there is interest in aquiring AML it seems no one values the business as high as the owners. Now where have I heard that before.


However

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57d71856-954d-11dd-aedd-...

Re arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

[yeti]

George H said:

AMG engines would be a great supplier for Aston.

Of all the suppliers of engines in the world, if AM were going to tie into another manufacturer, then Mercedes and AMG would be my choice too.

Their engines are proper old-school brawn with enough modern tech to cut it today. If nothing else, giving Aston to the 'old tech' Merc gear like the V12 that they don't use any more would be fantastcic - and differentiate it from the Mercs. Aston have a lot less emissions issues to worry about than Merc so they're old tech stuff would still be ideal - and cheap enough for the Bezster

Don't think Merc really are in competition with Aston, maybe the SLS, but that's it.

/crosses fingers

[Grant3]

I recently read an interview with Ratan Tata, when he was asked if he was interested in his Gaydon neighbours (A.M.), he said something like - yes, but I believe that things are already well progressed with Mercedes - whatever that means!