V8 Vantage Manifolds - Who does what?
Discussion
There's been a few topics on exhaust system upgrades over the last month or two, and a fair bit of banter around it.
I think the consensus is only change the back box if you want less weight & more noise
Everyone seems to accept one set of 200 cell cats to replace the 4 restrictive factory ones does deliver some good gains with some risk of throwing engine codes depending on who you talk to.
That only really leaves the exhaust manifolds.
So lets us this thread as a bit of a library for them.
That I know of currently there are only two proven on the market - Bamford Rose & RSC.
With Top Gear soon to offer their own once Scotpak has tested them.
For my own peace of mind I've had a closer look at these two;
RSC
Here's a picture of one bank;
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) It is a lot better than the factory effort, it is a 4-1 rather 4-2-1
2) the collector (where all four join in to one) is actually 4 pieces welded together, this is a critical area of the manifold to set up the mixing of gas flows correctly, it is also a weak point for engine movement on throttle changes
3) the collector is not fully seam welded on to each port pipe, they seem to be pushed in then tack weld in a couple of places, no idea why?
4) the collector is them mated to the cat flange with two further pieces of pipe and welds
5) the port pipes coming from the head seem to reduce in size before curving to meet the collector
6) the weld quality is inconsistent
7) RSC claim 22BHP with no supporting dyno tests a 4.3
8) Not sure the port pipes are equal length, no mention on their website
Bamford Rose
Here's a picture of one bank
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) again 4-1 and a lot better than the factory one
2) the collector is one piece with no welding to form it, this will give much better gas flow
3) I understand BR have a closely guard mechanism in the collector to further tune the manifold
4) the number of welds has been kept to a minimum
5) the port pipes are equal along their length and they are all the same length optimising the gas flow
6) the welding looks uniform and is nicely cleaned up
7) they have dynos showing
8) BR claim ~ 15BHP from dyno tests on a 4.3
9) there is a ceramic coated option for higher gains
Quick Silver
Here's a picture their full manifolds and cats;
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) again better than the factory as it is 4-2-1, these pics show the ceramic coated version which is not list as an option
2) It is well know these are the original system built for Bamford Rose, they failed quality checks and BR moved to a new supplier. On that basis the comments are the same as the BR manifolds.
3) the car pictured on their web site is actually Bamford Roses test mule Jessica.
Top Gear
I understand they have made manifolds for RSC so may have produce the ones above? (no idea if they still do - anyone?)
So they have some expertise, I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with as their own offering.
Is anyone aware of any one else offering a different exhaust manifold for the V8?
I think the consensus is only change the back box if you want less weight & more noise
Everyone seems to accept one set of 200 cell cats to replace the 4 restrictive factory ones does deliver some good gains with some risk of throwing engine codes depending on who you talk to.
That only really leaves the exhaust manifolds.
So lets us this thread as a bit of a library for them.
That I know of currently there are only two proven on the market - Bamford Rose & RSC.
With Top Gear soon to offer their own once Scotpak has tested them.
For my own peace of mind I've had a closer look at these two;
RSC
Here's a picture of one bank;
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) It is a lot better than the factory effort, it is a 4-1 rather 4-2-1
2) the collector (where all four join in to one) is actually 4 pieces welded together, this is a critical area of the manifold to set up the mixing of gas flows correctly, it is also a weak point for engine movement on throttle changes
3) the collector is not fully seam welded on to each port pipe, they seem to be pushed in then tack weld in a couple of places, no idea why?
4) the collector is them mated to the cat flange with two further pieces of pipe and welds
5) the port pipes coming from the head seem to reduce in size before curving to meet the collector
6) the weld quality is inconsistent
7) RSC claim 22BHP with no supporting dyno tests a 4.3
8) Not sure the port pipes are equal length, no mention on their website
Bamford Rose
Here's a picture of one bank
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) again 4-1 and a lot better than the factory one
2) the collector is one piece with no welding to form it, this will give much better gas flow
3) I understand BR have a closely guard mechanism in the collector to further tune the manifold
4) the number of welds has been kept to a minimum
5) the port pipes are equal along their length and they are all the same length optimising the gas flow
6) the welding looks uniform and is nicely cleaned up
7) they have dynos showing
8) BR claim ~ 15BHP from dyno tests on a 4.3
9) there is a ceramic coated option for higher gains
Quick Silver
Here's a picture their full manifolds and cats;
There are a few things I've noticed;
1) again better than the factory as it is 4-2-1, these pics show the ceramic coated version which is not list as an option
2) It is well know these are the original system built for Bamford Rose, they failed quality checks and BR moved to a new supplier. On that basis the comments are the same as the BR manifolds.
3) the car pictured on their web site is actually Bamford Roses test mule Jessica.
Top Gear
I understand they have made manifolds for RSC so may have produce the ones above? (no idea if they still do - anyone?)
So they have some expertise, I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with as their own offering.
Is anyone aware of any one else offering a different exhaust manifold for the V8?
Edited by mikey k on Wednesday 1st May 16:25
Probably worth putting up a picture of the original factory effort Mikey, just to see what all the 'no mod will ever touch the factory magnificence' lot can see what they have fitted. It's a shocking piece of engineering.
Where did Scotpak get his ideas from? There must be a picture of the Top Gear system or are we assuming it is the same as RSC's as Stuart now seems part of their business?
Where did Scotpak get his ideas from? There must be a picture of the Top Gear system or are we assuming it is the same as RSC's as Stuart now seems part of their business?
yeti said:
Probably worth putting up a picture of the original factory effort Mikey, just to see what all the 'no mod will ever touch the factory magnificence' lot can see what they have fitted. It's a shocking piece of engineering.
Where did Scotpak get his ideas from? There must be a picture of the Top Gear system or are we assuming it is the same as RSC's as Stuart now seems part of their business?
I did consider that but thought it a bit unfair as I could only find one next to the Bamford Rose manifold.Where did Scotpak get his ideas from? There must be a picture of the Top Gear system or are we assuming it is the same as RSC's as Stuart now seems part of their business?
Any why it is a valid point;
There is no longer a picture of the Top Gear one on their web site, it's been removed for some reason.
I'm hoping they are going to improve on what they did for RSC, so I'm keeping an open mind until it appears.
Are you aware of anyone else offering exhaust manifolds?
mikey k said:
I did consider that but thought it a bit unfair as I could only find one next to the Bamford Rose manifold.
Any why it is a valid point;
Mikey, to clarify, that is NOT A CURRENT Bamford Rose manifold. That is the first poor quality attempt Qucksliver made for them which is why the two firms parted compnay straight away afterwards. The Quicksilver system made to the BR design really was not up to the standards BR had been promised. BR manifolds are now WAY better than that Any why it is a valid point;
mikey k said:
Are you aware of anyone else offering exhaust manifolds?
I'm not aware of anyone offering manifolds... just people offering pictures of manifolds... usually the same picture as well, regardless of the firm offering them.mikey k said:
There is no longer a picture of the Top Gear one on their web site, it's been removed for some reason.
I'm pretty sure the reason why is due to the sentence I posted above. Feel free anyone to correct me if I am wrong mikey k said:
2) the collector is one piece with no welding to form it, this will give much better gas flow
A 'formed' versus 'built' collector does not necessarily give better gas flow. A welded or fabricated collector can easily yield excellent gas flow if it is build correctly and knife-edged inside etc.Stuart Dickinson said:
We have a great deal of in-house expertise in this area
Stuart, just as an aside, be careful what you post doesn't break the advertising rules or the thread/you could be shut down! That's not what anyone wants and we should have the chance to get some facts out there rather than pictures of theoretical manifolds that don't exist or systems from other cars, not Astons. Anyone with a pipe mandrel can bend metal, anyone with a welder can put it together; making it work on a V8 Aston is a different skillset... Let's see what's out there
Stuart Dickinson said:
mikey k said:
2) the collector is one piece with no welding to form it, this will give much better gas flow
A 'formed' versus 'built' collector does not necessarily give better gas flow. A welded or fabricated collector can easily yield excellent gas flow if it is build correctly and knife-edged inside etc.I'd guess is it probably lighter as well?
Harder to do and more costly though.
Lunablack said:
That is quite correct.
I have a fair bit of experience with bike exhausts..(much more exciting than crappy cars)
... After much research a friend and I ended up with hand made systems made by a chap called Pete Gibson... This was constructed in the thinnest, highest grade stainless you could buy, and was made entirely from sheet material.... Cut to shape rolled and welded... Loads and loads of different pieces to make up 1 pipe... Tapered headers, and fantastic welding skills ensured these exhausts always out performed the competition
.... Oh and they looked awesome
...
Pictures for this exhaust porn thread?I have a fair bit of experience with bike exhausts..(much more exciting than crappy cars)
... After much research a friend and I ended up with hand made systems made by a chap called Pete Gibson... This was constructed in the thinnest, highest grade stainless you could buy, and was made entirely from sheet material.... Cut to shape rolled and welded... Loads and loads of different pieces to make up 1 pipe... Tapered headers, and fantastic welding skills ensured these exhausts always out performed the competition.... Oh and they looked awesome... yeti said:
Mikey, to clarify, that is NOT A CURRENT Bamford Rose manifold. That is the first poor quality attempt Quicksliver made for them which is why the two firms parted company straight away afterwards. The Quicksilver system made to the BR design really was not up to the standards BR had been promised. BR manifolds are now WAY better than that
I know I could not find a large good picture of a later one.That one sufficed
mikey k said:
It would nice (but unlikely ) if we can keep this to V8 Vantage headers.
If any one has experience of any of these or other offerings feel free to post that up.
I'll edit the first post to try and keep the pertinent info on one post
Fair enough, have removed the photos of the Inconel RS5 & GT3 stuff. ) if we can keep this to V8 Vantage headers.If any one has experience of any of these or other offerings feel free to post that up.
I'll edit the first post to try and keep the pertinent info on one post
Stuart Dickinson said:
Just a quick post for some clarification. Top Gear was/is not the manufacturer for the RSC Manifolds. We are currently undertaking our own product development which should be finished/tested/measured etc. shortly.
But Top Gear do still sell the RSC manifolds which we have no customer feedback on. Was this what Scotpak saw and gave a call about?? http://www.topgear.co.uk/search/exhausts/rsc/RSCAS...I see Top Gear have taken RSC off the exhaust section but still sell their manifolds... I really don't quite get what's going on; so are Top Gear building a rival for the RSC ones or rebranding them? Did the RSC ones ever exist and do Top Gear intend to use them as a base or a totally new design? Do any of these systems exist in the metal, been fitted to a paying customers car, or is Scotpak going to be the development guinea pig. Genuine question as RSC's bumph claims extensive testing and power claims etc
I am famously stupid, obviously
yeti said:
Probably worth putting up a picture of the original factory effort Mikey, just to see what all the 'no mod will ever touch the factory magnificence' lot can see what they have fitted.
I never said the factory stuff is better, I said I have no desire to change it. Especially when it costs money to do so, and then devalues the car.Yeti you seem so eager for the answers and you have the cheek to imply that im a stooge??
Anyway, with regards to the aston manifolds. You are indeed correct. These pieces
Of engineering marvel and sublime craftmenship have only ever been developed and produced by BR (NOT!!!!!!). Cmon man. You need to resign your position as head of the BR fanboy club cos I fear it may have affected your ability to think rationally.
I will come back with all the relevant info in good time. Patience is always rewarded.
Anyway, with regards to the aston manifolds. You are indeed correct. These pieces
Of engineering marvel and sublime craftmenship have only ever been developed and produced by BR (NOT!!!!!!). Cmon man. You need to resign your position as head of the BR fanboy club cos I fear it may have affected your ability to think rationally.
I will come back with all the relevant info in good time. Patience is always rewarded.
Has it been calculated by Mike (I'm not sure this question is possible to answer actually) how much of the power improvement on fitting BR V12 manifolds is simply down to the removal of the primary cats rather than the other aspects of the manifolds design ?
That's assuming the secondary cats stay in too. I'm talking just power/torque now, not the additional weight saving or noise benefits
I see the V8 ones are referred to above as only adding 15bhp when looked at in isolation, though again I accept they also save weight and make the noise 'better'
That's assuming the secondary cats stay in too. I'm talking just power/torque now, not the additional weight saving or noise benefits
I see the V8 ones are referred to above as only adding 15bhp when looked at in isolation, though again I accept they also save weight and make the noise 'better'
Yeti you seem so eager for the answers and you have the cheek to imply that im a stooge??
Anyway, with regards to the aston manifolds. You are indeed correct. These pieces
Of engineering marvel and sublime craftmenship have only ever been developed and produced by BR (NOT!!!!!!). Cmon man. You need to resign your position as head of the BR fanboy club cos I fear it may have affected your ability to think rationally.
I will come back with all the relevant info in good time. Patience is always rewarded.
Anyway, with regards to the aston manifolds. You are indeed correct. These pieces
Of engineering marvel and sublime craftmenship have only ever been developed and produced by BR (NOT!!!!!!). Cmon man. You need to resign your position as head of the BR fanboy club cos I fear it may have affected your ability to think rationally.
I will come back with all the relevant info in good time. Patience is always rewarded.
jonby said:
Has it been calculated by Mike (I'm not sure this question is possible to answer actually) how much of the power improvement on fitting BR V12 manifolds is simply down to the removal of the primary cats rather than the other aspects of the manifolds design ?
That's assuming the secondary cats stay in too. I'm talking just power/torque now, not the additional weight saving or noise benefits
I see the V8 ones are referred to above as only adding 15bhp when looked at in isolation, though again I accept they also save weight and make the noise 'better'
Not sure how you would split power from cat removal and manifold designThat's assuming the secondary cats stay in too. I'm talking just power/torque now, not the additional weight saving or noise benefits
I see the V8 ones are referred to above as only adding 15bhp when looked at in isolation, though again I accept they also save weight and make the noise 'better'
Something that has not been covered but is probably more important than power is the torque
How the manifold is design can have a massive effect on the torque.
Being able to increase it and bring it down the rev range is the trick
Unfortunately to quantify it you need back to back dynos
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