V12VS driven - a personal review
Discussion
Diary clashes meant I unfortunately had to decline a few kind invitations to preview events such as Silverstone, but I finally test drove the S at Wilmslow this Saturday, thankfully just before the heavens opened. I'm not succinct at the best of times so apologies for the long post ! If you want to cut to the chase, jump to the last paragraphs on the gearbox
Firstly, cosmetics. I have seen several V12VS close up and it's as impressive now as when I first saw it at LM24. What's particularly nice is the ability to go quite extreme racer style which I think really suits the coupe over the roadster, or quite conservative. Having said that, it means you can go absolutely mental with the options list so what at first seems a more than reasonable list price of 138k could get quite out of hand. I'd also struggle much more to find a dealer specced/2nd hand car done the way I would want it without feeling pangs of regret I'd not specced it myself, whereas with the current coupe, there are fewer options and I'd much more easily find one that I was happy with
I'd also point out that if you aren't going for the more extreme new visual options, such as black roof or coloured grill, it's not actually that big a change cosmetically. New padding for lightweight seats, an additional alloy option...........basically it's a nice set of updates that's sensible and in keeping with the idea of the V12V being the most hardcore car in the range, which is great for new buyers but not sufficient on it's own to make you change from the outgoing V12V
The reason I've done cosmetics first is that for me, pulling away was a bit of a let down. For all the hardcore exterior, bright blue in the case of my demo ride, it's less dramatic, less of an event, less raw, all IMHO of course, than the outgoing car. It almost feels like false advertising - it looks like a 911 RS or scud type car, but it doesn't drive like one
As is well documented, there are half a dozen or so updates to the driving. Maybe I'd notice the marginally lighter overall car weight, marginally improved brakes and the servotronic assisted steering if I'd had longer with the car but as it was, I didn't notice any difference. Incidentally, I'm told that press articles claiming the V12S has gone from a 17:1 to 15:1 ratio (as in the V8 to V8S) are wrong - V12V has always had 15:1
The exhaust note is definitely improved but then I have a fairly trick exhaust myself so no biggy to me ! The big 3 mechanical changes are suspension, gearbox & engine. They are the things that change the character of the car, the ones an existing V12V owner will notice....basically the ones worth examining in detail
Suspension is an easy one to discuss. I'm quite happy with the suspension on mine but the ability to soften it up, particularly if you use the car as an everyday vehicle, is a useful one. I accept that for some people this may be quite important and therefore could be a big advantage but it's not something I've ever worried about
Engine. Well this was my first big surprise, because everything else above was exactly as I had expected - Aston are great at making gradual improvements over time and most, on their own, are incremental. But I was somehow expecting this car to feel dramatically faster than mine and yet it simply didn't. I've seen the comparison videos, I'm sure it's faster round a track but whether it was the closed-in nature of a coupe compared to a roadster, the slightly more compliant ride or the difference between being faster & seeming faster, it simply didn't feel any faster than my current car. Of course what we all learn when we first own cars like these is that unlike when we were kids playing top trumps & day dreaming whilst reading the car reviews, in the real world feeling faster is more important than being faster
Gearbox. Well compared to SS2, it's unbelievable. SS2 was a surprisingly huge improvement over SS1 but this is at least as big a jump again - I'd argue even bigger. I had both generations of SS in my V8 & V8S roadsters so feel well qualified to comment - don't believe the reviews - this gearbox is wonderful. The one criticism in the recent V12VS reviews is the gearbox yet to me, it's AM's greatest triumph with the car.
You could write a whole review just about SS3. It's MUCH smoother, there's still a great punch in the back when you shift at high revs, the D mode works. Note I don't say works better - this one actually works :-). The carbon fibre paddle option is expensive but it comes with larger paddles at the same time which work much better. You can shift down multiple gears at the same time by holding your foot on the brake and your hand on the left paddle, rather than going 'click, click, click' on the left paddle (though you can do that too). You can go to D mode by holding the right hand paddle down for a while. Hillstart, which was a bit hit & miss when introduced on SS2, works perfectly. It also shows an 'H' on the display to let you know it's actually kicked in - we tried it out and the car did stay stationary, foot off the brake, on a very steep incline in a way SS2 would not have done. Seriously this gearbox is superb
I believe it's a combination of 3 factors in addition to the obvious one of being simply better developed, namely the extra power of the engine (I know the car didn't feel faster to me but I'm told the extra torque helps the gear changes), the twin plates being introduced and the new engine management module which provides extra data channels to allow for some of the new features
This new car is almost too refined for me though. It would be great for someone coming out of a DBS who found the old V12V a touch too raw. But for me, the overwhelming feeling, despite being a great car, was that it was less of an occasion, less of a sensory overload, less specialness, than old V12V. I think I'd go for a vanquish or DBS over this car. But I urge anyone toying with the idea to try this car - it is a great car and this is, as my title suggested, a very personal review - I'd fully understand V12V owners trading up to this car, especially if they either specifically want 2 pedals or, are looking for a car that can be used more everyday than old V12V. But if you don't want one of those 2 things, I'm not sure this car would tempt you unless you specifically just want a newer car
My greatest fear was what I would feel if a V12VS roadster is launched.........I no longer have that fear as I'll be sticking to my V12VR thank you very much :-)
One last point I've edited to add. I've not directly compared SS3 to the manual in my V12V. I don't see the point. New SS3 is a brilliant 2 pedal sports car box. It's closer to 3 pedals IMO than it is to dual clutch or torque convertor. But it's a different type of box to manual and I don't see how you can compare them in terms of better or worse. It does make the car more refined and usable, which is a double edged sword....
Firstly, cosmetics. I have seen several V12VS close up and it's as impressive now as when I first saw it at LM24. What's particularly nice is the ability to go quite extreme racer style which I think really suits the coupe over the roadster, or quite conservative. Having said that, it means you can go absolutely mental with the options list so what at first seems a more than reasonable list price of 138k could get quite out of hand. I'd also struggle much more to find a dealer specced/2nd hand car done the way I would want it without feeling pangs of regret I'd not specced it myself, whereas with the current coupe, there are fewer options and I'd much more easily find one that I was happy with
I'd also point out that if you aren't going for the more extreme new visual options, such as black roof or coloured grill, it's not actually that big a change cosmetically. New padding for lightweight seats, an additional alloy option...........basically it's a nice set of updates that's sensible and in keeping with the idea of the V12V being the most hardcore car in the range, which is great for new buyers but not sufficient on it's own to make you change from the outgoing V12V
The reason I've done cosmetics first is that for me, pulling away was a bit of a let down. For all the hardcore exterior, bright blue in the case of my demo ride, it's less dramatic, less of an event, less raw, all IMHO of course, than the outgoing car. It almost feels like false advertising - it looks like a 911 RS or scud type car, but it doesn't drive like one
As is well documented, there are half a dozen or so updates to the driving. Maybe I'd notice the marginally lighter overall car weight, marginally improved brakes and the servotronic assisted steering if I'd had longer with the car but as it was, I didn't notice any difference. Incidentally, I'm told that press articles claiming the V12S has gone from a 17:1 to 15:1 ratio (as in the V8 to V8S) are wrong - V12V has always had 15:1
The exhaust note is definitely improved but then I have a fairly trick exhaust myself so no biggy to me ! The big 3 mechanical changes are suspension, gearbox & engine. They are the things that change the character of the car, the ones an existing V12V owner will notice....basically the ones worth examining in detail
Suspension is an easy one to discuss. I'm quite happy with the suspension on mine but the ability to soften it up, particularly if you use the car as an everyday vehicle, is a useful one. I accept that for some people this may be quite important and therefore could be a big advantage but it's not something I've ever worried about
Engine. Well this was my first big surprise, because everything else above was exactly as I had expected - Aston are great at making gradual improvements over time and most, on their own, are incremental. But I was somehow expecting this car to feel dramatically faster than mine and yet it simply didn't. I've seen the comparison videos, I'm sure it's faster round a track but whether it was the closed-in nature of a coupe compared to a roadster, the slightly more compliant ride or the difference between being faster & seeming faster, it simply didn't feel any faster than my current car. Of course what we all learn when we first own cars like these is that unlike when we were kids playing top trumps & day dreaming whilst reading the car reviews, in the real world feeling faster is more important than being faster
Gearbox. Well compared to SS2, it's unbelievable. SS2 was a surprisingly huge improvement over SS1 but this is at least as big a jump again - I'd argue even bigger. I had both generations of SS in my V8 & V8S roadsters so feel well qualified to comment - don't believe the reviews - this gearbox is wonderful. The one criticism in the recent V12VS reviews is the gearbox yet to me, it's AM's greatest triumph with the car.
You could write a whole review just about SS3. It's MUCH smoother, there's still a great punch in the back when you shift at high revs, the D mode works. Note I don't say works better - this one actually works :-). The carbon fibre paddle option is expensive but it comes with larger paddles at the same time which work much better. You can shift down multiple gears at the same time by holding your foot on the brake and your hand on the left paddle, rather than going 'click, click, click' on the left paddle (though you can do that too). You can go to D mode by holding the right hand paddle down for a while. Hillstart, which was a bit hit & miss when introduced on SS2, works perfectly. It also shows an 'H' on the display to let you know it's actually kicked in - we tried it out and the car did stay stationary, foot off the brake, on a very steep incline in a way SS2 would not have done. Seriously this gearbox is superb
I believe it's a combination of 3 factors in addition to the obvious one of being simply better developed, namely the extra power of the engine (I know the car didn't feel faster to me but I'm told the extra torque helps the gear changes), the twin plates being introduced and the new engine management module which provides extra data channels to allow for some of the new features
This new car is almost too refined for me though. It would be great for someone coming out of a DBS who found the old V12V a touch too raw. But for me, the overwhelming feeling, despite being a great car, was that it was less of an occasion, less of a sensory overload, less specialness, than old V12V. I think I'd go for a vanquish or DBS over this car. But I urge anyone toying with the idea to try this car - it is a great car and this is, as my title suggested, a very personal review - I'd fully understand V12V owners trading up to this car, especially if they either specifically want 2 pedals or, are looking for a car that can be used more everyday than old V12V. But if you don't want one of those 2 things, I'm not sure this car would tempt you unless you specifically just want a newer car
My greatest fear was what I would feel if a V12VS roadster is launched.........I no longer have that fear as I'll be sticking to my V12VR thank you very much :-)
One last point I've edited to add. I've not directly compared SS3 to the manual in my V12V. I don't see the point. New SS3 is a brilliant 2 pedal sports car box. It's closer to 3 pedals IMO than it is to dual clutch or torque convertor. But it's a different type of box to manual and I don't see how you can compare them in terms of better or worse. It does make the car more refined and usable, which is a double edged sword....
Edited by jonby on Monday 21st October 11:30
Edited by jonby on Monday 21st October 11:31
Exhaustwise it's the removal of the rear cats that make the big difference, but also the Capristo back box. I don't see anyone swapping the new V12VS backbox out, though they could still replace the rear cats & fit a bypass switch should they wish
I'd really have fun speccing a V12VS with all the new options, as those that followed my journey with V12VR can imagine, so I'm pleased for my sake I won't be having that financial problem ! I'd personally go really extreme in the colour scheme and then add a motorsport GT4 or similar rear spoiler & front winglets, as this car can really take it. But as I'm not buying one, I'm quite relaxed to wait now and see what the next gen brings, I imagine with a more radical (AMG influenced) change, to then perhaps have a car to sit alongside V12VR.
As other cars (not just by AM) come out and as I enjoy bonding with my car more (I've gone through 10k miles now), it just makes me more & more comfortable I made the right choice in choosing the car I did to be the one I specced from scratch & treat as a keeper
I'd really have fun speccing a V12VS with all the new options, as those that followed my journey with V12VR can imagine, so I'm pleased for my sake I won't be having that financial problem ! I'd personally go really extreme in the colour scheme and then add a motorsport GT4 or similar rear spoiler & front winglets, as this car can really take it. But as I'm not buying one, I'm quite relaxed to wait now and see what the next gen brings, I imagine with a more radical (AMG influenced) change, to then perhaps have a car to sit alongside V12VR.
As other cars (not just by AM) come out and as I enjoy bonding with my car more (I've gone through 10k miles now), it just makes me more & more comfortable I made the right choice in choosing the car I did to be the one I specced from scratch & treat as a keeper
Excellent review. Thanks Jonby.
I have not driven the new car but I see most of the new 'real' additions (suspension, manual box) as mainly a dilution of the original v12v concept. It was an old school car built nowadays.
Now they added 'techonological' advances (most are already obsolete) and the car has lost some of its singularity. Rather than keep the originality of the v12v, they have turned around and now running behing the curve.
Regarding the exhaust, as you know Jonby, I also have the capristo rear-cat bypass (not the capristo backbox though) and this gives me all the aural pleasure i would ever need in such a car. And i like my cars LOUD!
For me £140k would go towards a pre-owned 458 which in my view does all these things much better.
The more I read reviews and the more i think that at £80-90k, an 'old' v12v for a nearly new car is the bargain of the supercar world.
I have not driven the new car but I see most of the new 'real' additions (suspension, manual box) as mainly a dilution of the original v12v concept. It was an old school car built nowadays.
Now they added 'techonological' advances (most are already obsolete) and the car has lost some of its singularity. Rather than keep the originality of the v12v, they have turned around and now running behing the curve.
Regarding the exhaust, as you know Jonby, I also have the capristo rear-cat bypass (not the capristo backbox though) and this gives me all the aural pleasure i would ever need in such a car. And i like my cars LOUD!
For me £140k would go towards a pre-owned 458 which in my view does all these things much better.
The more I read reviews and the more i think that at £80-90k, an 'old' v12v for a nearly new car is the bargain of the supercar world.
I too test drove the new V12V S last week (probably the same one) and came to much the same conclusion as Jonby.
I had not driven a "flappy paddle" gearbox car before and this was one of the main reasons for my test drive. I was impressed by it, seemed to carry out all the demands asked of it (by me) flawlessly.
However as was mentioned, overall the car appeared more "refined" and did not appear to have the "all hell's breaking loose" feel at 7000rpm as in my current "analog" V12V.
The V12V S fits in with the Aston evolution improvements and is a very good car but as Cockers intimated, is it worth chopping in my present V12V and putting up another £70k? - not for me - when (and if) it's time for a change a DBS maybe more likely................
I had not driven a "flappy paddle" gearbox car before and this was one of the main reasons for my test drive. I was impressed by it, seemed to carry out all the demands asked of it (by me) flawlessly.
However as was mentioned, overall the car appeared more "refined" and did not appear to have the "all hell's breaking loose" feel at 7000rpm as in my current "analog" V12V.
The V12V S fits in with the Aston evolution improvements and is a very good car but as Cockers intimated, is it worth chopping in my present V12V and putting up another £70k? - not for me - when (and if) it's time for a change a DBS maybe more likely................
erics said:
Excellent review. Thanks Jonby.
I have not driven the new car but I see most of the new 'real' additions (suspension, manual box) as mainly a dilution of the original v12v concept. It was an old school car built nowadays.
Now they added 'techonological' advances (most are already obsolete) and the car has lost some of its singularity. Rather than keep the originality of the v12v, they have turned around and now running behing the curve.
Regarding the exhaust, as you know Jonby, I also have the capristo rear-cat bypass (not the capristo backbox though) and this gives me all the aural pleasure i would ever need in such a car. And i like my cars LOUD!
For me £140k would go towards a pre-owned 458 which in my view does all these things much better.
The more I read reviews and the more i think that at £80-90k, an 'old' v12v for a nearly new car is the bargain of the supercar world.
It's interesting because we are all Aston owners. The test driver tells me that this new car is getting looked at by those also looking at 458s or 12Cs, because the perceived performance/tech gap is smaller and you then get that impossible to replicate 'Astonness' that the other cars don't haveI have not driven the new car but I see most of the new 'real' additions (suspension, manual box) as mainly a dilution of the original v12v concept. It was an old school car built nowadays.
Now they added 'techonological' advances (most are already obsolete) and the car has lost some of its singularity. Rather than keep the originality of the v12v, they have turned around and now running behing the curve.
Regarding the exhaust, as you know Jonby, I also have the capristo rear-cat bypass (not the capristo backbox though) and this gives me all the aural pleasure i would ever need in such a car. And i like my cars LOUD!
For me £140k would go towards a pre-owned 458 which in my view does all these things much better.
The more I read reviews and the more i think that at £80-90k, an 'old' v12v for a nearly new car is the bargain of the supercar world.
The jump under 4secs to 60 and top speed being over 200 can't be under-estimated in terms of perception, totally ridiculous though it is
And I agree with you - V12Vs (and manual DBS for that matter) at 70-80k are really great buys right now
Tony V12V said:
laracer said:
The V12V S fits in with the Aston evolution improvements and is a very good car but as Cockers intimated, is it worth chopping in my present V12V and putting up another £70k? - not for me - when (and if) it's time for a change a DBS maybe more likely................
+1Put simply, V12VS didn't in any way tug at my heart to say 'buy me' over my existing car...
jonby said:
It's interesting because we are all Aston owners. The test driver tells me that this new car is getting looked at by those also looking at 458s or 12Cs, because the perceived performance/tech gap is smaller and you then get that impossible to replicate 'Astonness' that the other cars don't have
All due respect Jonby, don't you think they would say that?erics said:
jonby said:
It's interesting because we are all Aston owners. The test driver tells me that this new car is getting looked at by those also looking at 458s or 12Cs, because the perceived performance/tech gap is smaller and you then get that impossible to replicate 'Astonness' that the other cars don't have
All due respect Jonby, don't you think they would say that?I'm cynical as to how many convert into sales, but I can believe this is a car to attract people from outside the AM ownership world into the fold. At LM24, one of our small group has a diverse stable but no Astons. His only car that is still in current production was a 12C, the others being an F40, Dino, Montreal, 8C and a caterham. He was in the process of selling his 12C and the minute he saw the V12VS, he asked me as the group's Aston fan about some of the specs then placed it right at the top of his shopping list as a replacement for the 12C.
I don't necessarily see them as direct rivals but there's no doubt the perceived gap is narrowing - I'd re-iterate something from an earlier post of mine - you can't understate the importance of 200mph+ top speed and below 4s 0-60 to the wider buying world for a sports car I today's market, however daft it may be.
I'm another one who drove the blue car at Wilmslow on Saturday. Terrific drive, and like the earlier posters, I found the gearbox quite exceptional. Never been a fan of ASM, but this was a game changer. The combination of that and the massive engine torque was spectacular; The car would do anything, effortlessly, and very, very quickly.
Overall, though, it struck me as an oddly unresolved offering. In its bright blue paint and chrome-less decor it was GT3-like on the outside, but inside it was regular V12V, not particularly hardcore. In suicide grey or black would it look and feel more 'normal'? The ride was very compliant, and not as teeth-rattling as the exterior look would have you believe.
I kept thinking; is this a day to day user, or a hardcore track special? Aston would no doubt say 'both', but does any car really effectively fill both those roles? It felt a bit like they had had two ideas for a car; a 911 GT3 competitor and a 911 Turbo competitor, and lacking the budget for both, had merged them into one.
Overall, though, the experience was life-enhancing; it is a great piece of kit, very well developed, and will be a classic AM in years to come.
Overall, though, it struck me as an oddly unresolved offering. In its bright blue paint and chrome-less decor it was GT3-like on the outside, but inside it was regular V12V, not particularly hardcore. In suicide grey or black would it look and feel more 'normal'? The ride was very compliant, and not as teeth-rattling as the exterior look would have you believe.
I kept thinking; is this a day to day user, or a hardcore track special? Aston would no doubt say 'both', but does any car really effectively fill both those roles? It felt a bit like they had had two ideas for a car; a 911 GT3 competitor and a 911 Turbo competitor, and lacking the budget for both, had merged them into one.
Overall, though, the experience was life-enhancing; it is a great piece of kit, very well developed, and will be a classic AM in years to come.
jonby said:
Well I'd probably say the same as you and you may well be right of course. But this was a chap who'd taken the car to a few dealerships and who I've met before and spent some time with. He was recounting a couple of very specific tales of people who he had sat in the car with - when you're sat chatting for 40 minutes or so, just the two of you in the car, you can normally smell BS
I'm cynical as to how many convert into sales, but I can believe this is a car to attract people from outside the AM ownership world into the fold. At LM24, one of our small group has a diverse stable but no Astons. His only car that is still in current production was a 12C, the others being an F40, Dino, Montreal, 8C and a caterham. He was in the process of selling his 12C and the minute he saw the V12VS, he asked me as the group's Aston fan about some of the specs then placed it right at the top of his shopping list as a replacement for the 12C.
I don't necessarily see them as direct rivals but there's no doubt the perceived gap is narrowing - I'd re-iterate something from an earlier post of mine - you can't understate the importance of 200mph+ top speed and below 4s 0-60 to the wider buying world for a sports car I today's market, however daft it may be.
Client of mine just sold his 12C after 10 days I'm cynical as to how many convert into sales, but I can believe this is a car to attract people from outside the AM ownership world into the fold. At LM24, one of our small group has a diverse stable but no Astons. His only car that is still in current production was a 12C, the others being an F40, Dino, Montreal, 8C and a caterham. He was in the process of selling his 12C and the minute he saw the V12VS, he asked me as the group's Aston fan about some of the specs then placed it right at the top of his shopping list as a replacement for the 12C.
I don't necessarily see them as direct rivals but there's no doubt the perceived gap is narrowing - I'd re-iterate something from an earlier post of mine - you can't understate the importance of 200mph+ top speed and below 4s 0-60 to the wider buying world for a sports car I today's market, however daft it may be.
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