Most annoying Aston dealer in the WORLD!
Discussion
Ok, so most of you know I'm the chap who's trying to put together a Register for all V12 Vantages (manual), a task I've been working on for nearly 3 years now. I have approx 525 cars listed now and it's really coming together. I've had help from many PH Aston owners both in this country and from places as far as USA, Canada, Chile, Australia and from dealers in the USA, Holland, Belgium and New Zealand!
I'm finding the hardest V12V's to get info on are in the EU with dealer adverts not advertising their cars with vin numbers, something which US and Australia dealers provide as a given.
Currently there is a Lightning Silver V12V advertised on the main AM website in Switzerland, which is unusual in itself, so after looking at their own website and drawing a blank I decided to email them a request for the last 4 vin numbers only of the V12V they had for sale as a don't have any Swiss V12V's listed.
Below is the transcript of the many emails back and forth to try and obtain this TOP SECRET info:-
Early September:
Me: Hello, could you please let me know the last four vin numbers of your Lightning Silver V12V please?
Dealer: Thank you for your interest in our Aston Martin V12 Vantage! Do you wish any specific information’s about this car? Do not hesitate to contact me!
At this stage I forgot to follow this up and subsequently forgot to email back.
Mid November - I came across the same advert and tried again thinking I may get a different recipient who could oblige.......
Dealer: Could you let me know why you would need the vin number of our cars? It is not the first time we get a request like this from you and last time you did not reply to my email. We do not quite understand why you would want the vin number of your cars?
Me: Thanks for your email and apologies for not replying before. I only require the last 4 numbers not the full vin. I am the unofficial Registrar for V12 Vantages and am trying to complete a register/list of all of these cars. I am also an owner of S00307 in Mako Blue and an Aston Martin enthusiast so please be assured of my best intentions.
I have been compiling the Register for 3 years now and have 525 V12 Vantages listed. Your silver car shown on the AM website is not on my list so I emailed you for the last 4 numbers so I can add it in the Register. I look forward to your help with this.
Dealer: And for what reason do you register this cars?
Me: My Register is just an Excel spreadsheet listing the spec of cars. It is for my own personal interest as an enthusiast and is not for personal gain or financial reward.
If you like I will send you the details of my car I hold on the Register for you to see what details I keep?
Dealer: Yes please. I just do not really get the purpose you get from this.
Me: I attached two pictures of my car, one on the day of collection and another taken last month.
Below is the extract from my Register for the info I hold on my car. As you can see I have full vin, engine number, reg plates and info on owners etc listed on the Register but I do not require this of your car, only the last 4 vin numbers. I also have a topic on the Aston Martin Forum of Pistonheads website where owners can post about their cars, my username is Mako V12V - link to this website posted
I hope you get the purpose of my Register now and will help me with the vin of your silver V12V?
Dealer: To be honest I still do not quite get the reason why somebody would collect VIN numbers. And if your such an Aston Martin fan, why would your email address be “porsche997” – this seams all a bit odd to me.
I will go on holidays tomorrow and will decide if we send it or not after my holidays.
Thank you for understanding.
Me: I used to own a Porsche 997 GT3 before my V12 Vantage. It's not easy to obtain another email address and swap over that's all.
I get asked quite a lot on the forum, how many in this colour, that colour, how many are in the USA, or the UK. One person has just bought S013XX and wanted to know how many more uk cars there were after his. A man in Chile has S013XX and he was very happy when I told him that his was the last V12 Vantage (manual).
I also get people looking to buy certain cars who ask me if it's on my Register and do I have any info.
There are many owners out there who are interested in these things and I feel I'm providing a service, albeit small, to fellow owners and enthusiasts.
I've had help with vins from round the world as people are genuinely pleased to help me, from New Zealand, Canada, Germany and dealers here in the UK.
I do not quite understand your reluctance to give me just the last 4 vin so that I can add your car to the 500+ I already have!
I then had to wait until this person returned from holidays to receive this final response:-
Dealer: I am reluctant because we do not give these kind of information’s about our cars out. Private owner’s can do with the information’s of their cars whatever they like.
However you can still register our cars in the list without the chassis digits. All the information’s which we give to interested people about our cars are out in the internet.
Thank you for understanding and best regards
I now feel compelled to drive to this bloody dealership in Safenwil, Switzerland just so I can get the vin myself out of the bleedin' window and to stick two fingers up at their "understanding"!!!
Thoughts people......am I really asking for some top secret info here??!!
I'm finding the hardest V12V's to get info on are in the EU with dealer adverts not advertising their cars with vin numbers, something which US and Australia dealers provide as a given.
Currently there is a Lightning Silver V12V advertised on the main AM website in Switzerland, which is unusual in itself, so after looking at their own website and drawing a blank I decided to email them a request for the last 4 vin numbers only of the V12V they had for sale as a don't have any Swiss V12V's listed.
Below is the transcript of the many emails back and forth to try and obtain this TOP SECRET info:-
Early September:
Me: Hello, could you please let me know the last four vin numbers of your Lightning Silver V12V please?
Dealer: Thank you for your interest in our Aston Martin V12 Vantage! Do you wish any specific information’s about this car? Do not hesitate to contact me!
At this stage I forgot to follow this up and subsequently forgot to email back.
Mid November - I came across the same advert and tried again thinking I may get a different recipient who could oblige.......
Dealer: Could you let me know why you would need the vin number of our cars? It is not the first time we get a request like this from you and last time you did not reply to my email. We do not quite understand why you would want the vin number of your cars?
Me: Thanks for your email and apologies for not replying before. I only require the last 4 numbers not the full vin. I am the unofficial Registrar for V12 Vantages and am trying to complete a register/list of all of these cars. I am also an owner of S00307 in Mako Blue and an Aston Martin enthusiast so please be assured of my best intentions.
I have been compiling the Register for 3 years now and have 525 V12 Vantages listed. Your silver car shown on the AM website is not on my list so I emailed you for the last 4 numbers so I can add it in the Register. I look forward to your help with this.
Dealer: And for what reason do you register this cars?
Me: My Register is just an Excel spreadsheet listing the spec of cars. It is for my own personal interest as an enthusiast and is not for personal gain or financial reward.
If you like I will send you the details of my car I hold on the Register for you to see what details I keep?
Dealer: Yes please. I just do not really get the purpose you get from this.
Me: I attached two pictures of my car, one on the day of collection and another taken last month.
Below is the extract from my Register for the info I hold on my car. As you can see I have full vin, engine number, reg plates and info on owners etc listed on the Register but I do not require this of your car, only the last 4 vin numbers. I also have a topic on the Aston Martin Forum of Pistonheads website where owners can post about their cars, my username is Mako V12V - link to this website posted
I hope you get the purpose of my Register now and will help me with the vin of your silver V12V?
Dealer: To be honest I still do not quite get the reason why somebody would collect VIN numbers. And if your such an Aston Martin fan, why would your email address be “porsche997” – this seams all a bit odd to me.
I will go on holidays tomorrow and will decide if we send it or not after my holidays.
Thank you for understanding.
Me: I used to own a Porsche 997 GT3 before my V12 Vantage. It's not easy to obtain another email address and swap over that's all.
I get asked quite a lot on the forum, how many in this colour, that colour, how many are in the USA, or the UK. One person has just bought S013XX and wanted to know how many more uk cars there were after his. A man in Chile has S013XX and he was very happy when I told him that his was the last V12 Vantage (manual).
I also get people looking to buy certain cars who ask me if it's on my Register and do I have any info.
There are many owners out there who are interested in these things and I feel I'm providing a service, albeit small, to fellow owners and enthusiasts.
I've had help with vins from round the world as people are genuinely pleased to help me, from New Zealand, Canada, Germany and dealers here in the UK.
I do not quite understand your reluctance to give me just the last 4 vin so that I can add your car to the 500+ I already have!
I then had to wait until this person returned from holidays to receive this final response:-
Dealer: I am reluctant because we do not give these kind of information’s about our cars out. Private owner’s can do with the information’s of their cars whatever they like.
However you can still register our cars in the list without the chassis digits. All the information’s which we give to interested people about our cars are out in the internet.
Thank you for understanding and best regards
I now feel compelled to drive to this bloody dealership in Safenwil, Switzerland just so I can get the vin myself out of the bleedin' window and to stick two fingers up at their "understanding"!!!
Thoughts people......am I really asking for some top secret info here??!!
That's funny, if you picture his confusion.
I understand both sides. Yours is obvious. The dealer thinks the VIN "belongs" to the car owner, and as such, on privacy grounds, he wouldn't tell you. It doesn't really matter what the purpose is, such is usually the case with pro-privacy thinking. If you asked him the colour of the buyer's eyes, he also wouldn't tell you, even though it's also publicly available information and you could hardly use it for nefarious purposes.
He may also think you can use the VIN on another car or some such. Even if he can't think how, why take the risk.
If he was selling my car, I probably wouldn't care, but I'd appreciate being asked first. Depends whether you think the VIN is property of the car owner or not.
Perhaps slightly surprising that you got 500 VINs before anyone reacted like this.
I understand both sides. Yours is obvious. The dealer thinks the VIN "belongs" to the car owner, and as such, on privacy grounds, he wouldn't tell you. It doesn't really matter what the purpose is, such is usually the case with pro-privacy thinking. If you asked him the colour of the buyer's eyes, he also wouldn't tell you, even though it's also publicly available information and you could hardly use it for nefarious purposes.
He may also think you can use the VIN on another car or some such. Even if he can't think how, why take the risk.
If he was selling my car, I probably wouldn't care, but I'd appreciate being asked first. Depends whether you think the VIN is property of the car owner or not.
Perhaps slightly surprising that you got 500 VINs before anyone reacted like this.
Very strange dealer behavior. Here in the USA, getting VINs isn't an issue since all auto ads must have them. Like you said, the VIN isn't some big secret. Next time, just tell the dealer you are interested in buying the car and you need the VIN to check out the car's history before deciding on a purchase. And frankly, you spent too much time explaining yourself, making things seem a little too suspicious, perhaps?
justin220 said:
I would say I agree with the dealer on this being honest.
If some random person emailed me asking me for my cars VIN number I wouldn't be giving it out either.
I see where you are coming from, but it still looks very odd.
Nah, not really. The vin is on "public display" in the windscreen. If the vin was concealed then may be. But really, what could you do with a four digit number??If some random person emailed me asking me for my cars VIN number I wouldn't be giving it out either.
I see where you are coming from, but it still looks very odd.
Little Donkey said:
Nah, not really. The vin is on "public display" in the windscreen. If the vin was concealed then may be. But really, what could you do with a four digit number??
It doesn't matter how you might use the data. It's a variation on the privacy argument vs government: it doesn't matter that I'm innocent, the default is you can't have my data. Especially when it's not even my data, it's my client's. If you ask the dealer what colour his client's hair is, which is public information that cannot harm his client, he wouldn't/shouldn't give it out either.I get that it's harmless information, but that assumes we (Mako and the dealer) have moved on to that stage of the discussion, whereas the dealer chooses to stay stuck at the previous stage: it's not my data...privacy...you can't have it.
montecristo said:
It doesn't matter how you might use the data. It's a variation on the privacy argument vs government: it doesn't matter that I'm innocent, the default is you can't have my data. Especially when it's not even my data, it's my client's. If you ask the dealer what colour his client's hair is, which is public information that cannot harm his client, he wouldn't/shouldn't give it out either.
I get that it's harmless information, but that assumes we (Mako and the dealer) have moved on to that stage of the discussion, whereas the dealer chooses to stay stuck at the previous stage: it's not my data...privacy...you can't have it.
I see what you mean about ownership of the data but if you take that point to a logical conclusion should not ALL vins on ALL cars be taped over at a Dealership ??I get that it's harmless information, but that assumes we (Mako and the dealer) have moved on to that stage of the discussion, whereas the dealer chooses to stay stuck at the previous stage: it's not my data...privacy...you can't have it.
And the Reg Plates ??
Jockman said:
I see what you mean about ownership of the data but if you take that point to a logical conclusion should not ALL vins on ALL cars be taped over at a Dealership ??
And the Reg Plates ??
Even the colour, and the make and model. Or that it's a car at all. I'm going to sell mine in a blind auction as "contents of cardboard box".And the Reg Plates ??
montecristo said:
Jockman said:
I see what you mean about ownership of the data but if you take that point to a logical conclusion should not ALL vins on ALL cars be taped over at a Dealership ??
And the Reg Plates ??
Even the colour, and the make and model. Or that it's a car at all. I'm going to sell mine in a blind auction as "contents of cardboard box".And the Reg Plates ??
Oh, and the Dealership should offer hats on entry so we cannot display the colour of our hair
I use first registration dates for my colour register, but as yours is V12 worldwide list, you probably have numerous cars with matching dates.
Just the following should of course be enough to identify the car. Perhaps a future owner or dealer, will be more cooperative.
Exterior colour: Lightning Silver
Interior colour:
Upper - Obsidian Black
Lower - Obsidian Black
Registration date: 21 April 2010
Model year: 2010
Mileage: 15,535 Km
Colour and Trim
Headlining: Tailors Grey
Carpet: Obsidian Black
Facia trim: 510 Alloy Facia
Brake calipers: Black
'Trainspotting' might not be very popular in Switzerland.
Hi, if you PM me the details of the dealer, and I will try and get out to see him. I'm working over in Zurich at the moment, might give me an excuse to leave the office on a covert operation.
It looks like the town is a mere 34 miles away. A long lunch...
Can't promise anything though...
It looks like the town is a mere 34 miles away. A long lunch...
Can't promise anything though...
SELON said:
Hi, if you PM me the details of the dealer, and I will try and get out to see him. I'm working over in Zurich at the moment, might give me an excuse to leave the office on a covert operation.
It looks like the town is a mere 34 miles away. A long lunch...
Can't promise anything though...
This is the way to get it. Swiss dealers probably stuck up there own arse!It looks like the town is a mere 34 miles away. A long lunch...
Can't promise anything though...
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