AMG/Mercedes tie-up with Aston Martin Lagonda now signed
Discussion
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/aston-m...
Merc takes 5% stake in Aston, will 'develop bespoke V8 engines'.
This is great news to me!
Merc takes 5% stake in Aston, will 'develop bespoke V8 engines'.
This is great news to me!
downr said:
...and electrical components? Anyone know what electrical components AMG develop? I've always thought of them as just being engines plus suspension tweaks?
The electronics will be Mercedes, not AMG. The agreement is between Daimler, Mercedes-AMG (owned by Daimler) and AML. It refers in the press release to an agreement between all the parties on AMG engines and continued talks between all parties on electronics etc. The rumoured Lagonda SUV has often been said for instance to be based on the Merc ML platform. One assumes the electronics will be for gearbox (merc buy in the same dual clutch box as Ferrari but then develop it further themselves), infotainment and potentially 'gadgets' (head up display, lane change, night vision, etc)
robgt said:
Whatever anybody thinks this is the best news for the longevity of ASTON MARTIN. I think that we will have some very interesting new models with amazing upto date engines arriving in the not so distant future.
I am not disagreeing but how does it help longevity? If AM's problems are a lack of sales and/or money, this doesn't really solve that. Presumably a 5% stake won't make much difference. Let's say the cars turn out better, but they could easily fail regardless of how good the product is.montecristo said:
I am not disagreeing but how does it help longevity? If AM's problems are a lack of sales and/or money, this doesn't really solve that. Presumably a 5% stake won't make much difference. Let's say the cars turn out better, but they could easily fail regardless of how good the product is.
It's a massive saving on investment spendOn the new model front I wouldn't hold your breath, I think the AM business plan was talking about 2015
Agree fully with Rob and others
The areas they simply haven;t got the money to spend (engine power, engine efficiency, latest gearboxes, infotainment & to a lesser extent, electronic toys/aids) can all come relatively quickly from this tie up and with the exception of the engines themselves, don't need to be much if indeed any different to stuff Mercedes are already making other than the buttons/controllers
Is there any reason that these things can't be used with existing chassis tech and in-house current/refreshed/new designs ? Although I accept it must be c. 18 +months away minimum before you will see it an products you can actually buy
Unfortunately, headline power & straight line performance figures, particularly in combination with modern gearbox tech, are mighty powerful in relation sales to certain, large sections of real world buyers for £100k+ cars. Stronger sales keeps the company afloat and residuals high, which in turn leads to more sales, etc - it's excellent news
edited to add this: a vantage S replacement with a 650bhp AMG V8 engine and a DSG equivalent box, combined with marginal refresh to cosmetics, would IMO be a hugely popular car - the weight saving from the engine would counteract the gain from the gearbox weight and at say £30-40k less than 458/12C/lambo/etc would make major waves
The areas they simply haven;t got the money to spend (engine power, engine efficiency, latest gearboxes, infotainment & to a lesser extent, electronic toys/aids) can all come relatively quickly from this tie up and with the exception of the engines themselves, don't need to be much if indeed any different to stuff Mercedes are already making other than the buttons/controllers
Is there any reason that these things can't be used with existing chassis tech and in-house current/refreshed/new designs ? Although I accept it must be c. 18 +months away minimum before you will see it an products you can actually buy
Unfortunately, headline power & straight line performance figures, particularly in combination with modern gearbox tech, are mighty powerful in relation sales to certain, large sections of real world buyers for £100k+ cars. Stronger sales keeps the company afloat and residuals high, which in turn leads to more sales, etc - it's excellent news
edited to add this: a vantage S replacement with a 650bhp AMG V8 engine and a DSG equivalent box, combined with marginal refresh to cosmetics, would IMO be a hugely popular car - the weight saving from the engine would counteract the gain from the gearbox weight and at say £30-40k less than 458/12C/lambo/etc would make major waves
Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
It does not have to be good news, but it might be -- and hopefully is -- great news. If they actually develop bespoke engines for Aston -- to the same degree that the current V8 is bespoke -- fantastic. If they just use retuned AMG engines in Astons along the lines of the Audi/"Bentley" 4.0 V8 -- it will be a crying shame, and a car that I'd have no interest in owning.
Also, the consideration of platform sharing is frightening. It's bad enough if they do it with an SUV and Lagonda, but the notion of Aston Martins sharing platforms with Benz is appalling. The easiest and least expensive solution may appeal to the balance sheet, but it won't result in the most desirable car. If the future is "Aston Martins" that are Benzes under the skin with Benz engines, they may as well go out now with their dignity intact.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works well, but in a world of Bentleys that are VWs and Rolls-Royces that are BMWs, I'm worried.
Also, the consideration of platform sharing is frightening. It's bad enough if they do it with an SUV and Lagonda, but the notion of Aston Martins sharing platforms with Benz is appalling. The easiest and least expensive solution may appeal to the balance sheet, but it won't result in the most desirable car. If the future is "Aston Martins" that are Benzes under the skin with Benz engines, they may as well go out now with their dignity intact.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works well, but in a world of Bentleys that are VWs and Rolls-Royces that are BMWs, I'm worried.
Just a thought. Aston Martin will have a new C.E.O. We all know who that is going to be! Things are going to change at Gaydon with the empathis on sales not jaunts and flag waving. Pop some new engines into the model mix for starters , then tweak our dateless shapes , delete a load of lard and away to go. The very name Aston Martin instills so much perception in the buying public. AM must grab it and capitalise it before it is too late.......
I was so very close to changing my last AM for a 991 GT3. To be honest, had I done so it would now be worth more than I had paid for it . Regrets? none at all really . I truly love being the owner of a motoring icon , my Aston Martin.
I was so very close to changing my last AM for a 991 GT3. To be honest, had I done so it would now be worth more than I had paid for it . Regrets? none at all really . I truly love being the owner of a motoring icon , my Aston Martin.
Speedraser said:
It does not have to be good news, but it might be -- and hopefully is -- great news. If they actually develop bespoke engines for Aston -- to the same degree that the current V8 is bespoke -- fantastic. If they just use retuned AMG engines in Astons along the lines of the Audi/"Bentley" 4.0 V8 -- it will be a crying shame, and a car that I'd have no interest in owning.
Also, the consideration of platform sharing is frightening. It's bad enough if they do it with an SUV and Lagonda, but the notion of Aston Martins sharing platforms with Benz is appalling. The easiest and least expensive solution may appeal to the balance sheet, but it won't result in the most desirable car. If the future is "Aston Martins" that are Benzes under the skin with Benz engines, they may as well go out now with their dignity intact.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works well, but in a world of Bentleys that are VWs and Rolls-Royces that are BMWs, I'm worried.
I think you are right to be worried but I can't imagine they will look at platforms other than for areas outside their current core business, i.e. SUV, a saloon if one happens and whilst I hope not, I guess possibly a small car (along the lines of the cygnet). I can't see why they would platform share on the sports cars when they have a perfectly good VH system which can continue to evolve the way it already has thus far. I accept it's all partly wishful thinking on my partAlso, the consideration of platform sharing is frightening. It's bad enough if they do it with an SUV and Lagonda, but the notion of Aston Martins sharing platforms with Benz is appalling. The easiest and least expensive solution may appeal to the balance sheet, but it won't result in the most desirable car. If the future is "Aston Martins" that are Benzes under the skin with Benz engines, they may as well go out now with their dignity intact.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it works well, but in a world of Bentleys that are VWs and Rolls-Royces that are BMWs, I'm worried.
jonby said:
edited to add this: a vantage S replacement with a 650bhp AMG V8 engine and a DSG equivalent box, combined with marginal refresh to cosmetics, would IMO be a hugely popular car - the weight saving from the engine would counteract the gain from the gearbox weight and at say £30-40k less than 458/12C/lambo/etc would make major waves
A 650 hp V8 Vantage will never happen. Aston will never market a V8 engined car with more power than the V12, which is destined to stay in production for many more years as their top dog. They can get within maybe 50 hp, but that's it, IMO.Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
DB9VolanteDriver said:
jonby said:
edited to add this: a vantage S replacement with a 650bhp AMG V8 engine and a DSG equivalent box, combined with marginal refresh to cosmetics, would IMO be a hugely popular car - the weight saving from the engine would counteract the gain from the gearbox weight and at say £30-40k less than 458/12C/lambo/etc would make major waves
A 650 hp V8 Vantage will never happen. Aston will never market a V8 engined car with more power than the V12, which is destined to stay in production for many more years as their top dog. They can get within maybe 50 hp, but that's it, IMO.Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
Edited by jonby on Thursday 19th December 18:50
robgt said:
Just a thought. Aston Martin will have a new C.E.O. We all know who that is going to be!
Not all of us.You will have to help me with that one, Rob.
I put forward jonby, but he had some sort of excuse, too busy, not enough money, something like that.
As well as the normal CEO attributes, I think it must be a 'car guy', with passion and respect for the marque, able to pass the AML history test, and who recites each day, "A Mercedes (Chrysler) Crossfire, not on my watch".
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