Vantage clutch...

[northernmedia]

Hi all,

Bit of advice pls...

07 V8V 49k miles (as far as I'm aware on its original clutch).

Sat in traffic earlier, depressed the clutch pedal to engage first and alarmingly it suddenly dropped a good 4 or so inches leaving me with very little movement and obviously a rather harsh biting point.
I can pull the pedal back up with my foot and it will stay there but when you again press the pedal there's no resistance until the pedal is nearly at its full throw at the bottom of the foot well.
It doesn't slip and I'm able to engage all gears without any crunching.

Clutch? Or maybe slave cylinder?

Is replacing the clutch a straightforward job?
As the car had full AM history I'd like to keep the servicing within the network (JCT Leeds my closest) but can something like this be repaired by a local garage without specialist knowledge?
I have a great little indy in York who replaced the discs and pads lot long back. Surely a clutch change is a clutch change?
Looks like I can get a clutch from Aston Martin Bits for £975 - http://www.astonmartinbits.com/models/5-V8-Vantage...

On the other hand I've been reading up on the lightened clutch & flywheel from Appleby??

Just to throw and spanner in the works I'm supposed to be driving down to Bristol next weekend (400mile round trip) - would you risk it as is?


Many thanks in advance!

Matt

[mikey k]

Sounds like actuation issues rather than dead clutch
I'd get it in to JCT for a check

[Jalfonse]

Just had the Appleby clutch and flywheel and am very happy, checkout my thread titled "David Appleby clutch and lightened flywheel', as mikey says though it sounds more like actuation.

[northernmedia]

thanks both - when you say actuation, do you mean slave cylinder?
Not sure what else could give??

[V8 Animal]

I wouldn't drive it and I think it's the slave cylinder but at that mileage off course you would need to replace the clutch plate.
Not a cheap day I fear.

[Jalfonse]

Yes, I would think slave cylinder, if it was broken clutch 'fingers' that would give very difficult engagement and grinding, had that a few months ago on my TVR. You really need to get this diagnosed by someone though as I'm just guessing. Anyone will tell you that a clutch replacement is a big job, torque tube off, transaxle out, driveshafts, wheel arch liners etc, it's 10 hrs for someone that knows what they are doing and most of the cost is labour. Good luck with it and let us know how you get along.

[northernmedia]

thanks again - I'll see if I get someone to take a look this week.

[Bravo73]

Jalfonse said:

Yes, I would think slave cylinder, if it was broken clutch 'fingers' that would give very difficult engagement and grinding, had that a few months ago on my TVR. You really need to get this diagnosed by someone though as I'm just guessing. Anyone will tell you that a clutch replacement is a big job, torque tube off, transaxle out, driveshafts, wheel arch liners etc, it's 10 hrs for someone that knows what they are doing and most of the cost is labour. Good luck with it and let us know how you get along.

Not forgetting that one of the manifolds has got to come off too.

Oh, the clutch won't be £975 from astonmartinsts.com. You will have to add VAT and delivery to that price. It will be cheaper from Eurocarparts (who stock the OEM AP clutch).

[X7LDA]

As above replacing is 10 hours for someone who knows what they are doing with all the right tools. Add a few for an indy. When you replace the clutch you usually replace the slave cylinder as well.

Also noted above - astonbits are stupid expensive when you add in VAT and shipping. Usually cheaper to be from a main dealer if you haggle a discount, which most do if you shop around.

[northernmedia]

Had a nice chat with David from Appleby - I'll be taking her down to him within the next couple of weeks.
I'll give an update once all sorted

thanks again for all the advice.

[northernmedia]

Well after spending 3 days with David, James & Chris at Appleby she's back with me and working like a treat.

Required a new clutch plate, release bearing, master cylinder, slave cylinder and associated pipes.
Also fitted new front discs & pads as mine were shot.

Can't rate these guys highly enough, from a warm welcome and tour of the workshop/dyno etc, lifts to and from the train station in Banbury to the constant progress reports with photos via whatsapp.
Very impressed with how I've been dealt with, just shame they're not closer.

Just gotta save up for some of the more interesting modifications

[Jalfonse]

Glad you got it sorted, impressive facilities aren't they! I saw your car when I dropped mine off, there were three Vantages there by the end of the day. Chris helped rebuild a 177 apparently.

[northernmedia]

Thanks, had a little look at yours when I picked mine up.
Liking the cats, did you see much improvement?

[Jalfonse]

Matt, CATs are great mate, the engine has a much deeper rumble now on tick over and has an amazing sound when the valves open at 4000 rpm! No need to remove fuse 22 anymore so that is now back in place. The engine has to be remapped with the 200cpi cats (I think it gets the N400 software) and it also has a different start up now as a result, it fires and then the revs build really quickly like a roar and then fall back which sounds really good. They're from RS fabs and have been dynoed at up to 15 hp.

[Brakke]

Jalfonse said:

Matt, CATs are great mate, the engine has a much deeper rumble now on tick over and has an amazing sound when the valves open at 4000 rpm! No need to remove fuse 22 anymore so that is now back in place. The engine has to be remapped with the 200cpi cats (I think it gets the N400 software) and it also has a different start up now as a result, it fires and then the revs build really quickly like a roar and then fall back which sounds really good. They're from RS fabs and have been dynoed at up to 15 hp.

Hi,

Have you had anything else done except 200cell cats that required the engine to be remapped?
Also can you confirm 100% that it was the N400 map that was installed on the ECU?

I am looking into getting custom 200cell racekats made and wonder if it will need a ecu remap as the standard setup runs quite rich. Will do before and after dynos but I am interested to get some more info before going ahead.

Thanks,

Brakke

[Jalfonse]

I've just had the CATs done and I'll have to confirm with our tame racing driver (James) about the map and whether it is indeed the n400, but I can say for definite you need a remap or you will get constant 'emission service required' warnings. This happened to someone that I was chatting with while I was doing my own research.

[Brakke]

Jalfonse said:

I've just had the CATs done and I'll have to confirm with our tame racing driver (James) about the map and whether it is indeed the n400, but I can say for definite you need a remap or you will get constant 'emission service required' warnings. This happened to someone that I was chatting with while I was doing my own research.

Hi,

Thank you in advance for inquiring, you're a true gentleman.
I have been reading indeed that some cases you get an emissions warning, and in other cases that it was fine. I would say it seems that some 200cell cats have the 02 sensors positioned slightly in a different place which cause a warning.

EDIT: link to thread I read and confirmed some people are running 200cell cats without ECU remap
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/28...

This will need further investigating still.
Thank you in advance again for your inquiry regarding the N400 ecu remap.

Edited by Brakke on Saturday 8th February 15:43

[robgt]

Interesting report& good to know what's being offered.

I know there are many mods out there & you can pay your money & take your chances, however, forgive me for mentioning an alternative here, but Bamford Rose have been fitting this kit for 3 years or so now (over 50 Astons I gather) with no emissions check lights or other error signs.

Perhaps others are playing catch up now but personally I would rather go with the tried & tested option.

[Brakke]

robgt said:

Interesting report& good to know what's being offered.

I know there are many mods out there & you can pay your money & take your chances, however, forgive me for mentioning an alternative here, but Bamford Rose have been fitting this kit for 3 years or so now (over 50 Astons I gather) with no emissions check lights or other error signs.

Perhaps others are playing catch up now but personally I would rather go with the tried & tested option.

Firstly, my apologies to the OP for hijacking his post.

You are right that BR offer good products.
But a 200 cell cat is not something difficult to build, however I just recently purchased a V8V so I am getting to learn to specifics of this car.

Any decent mechanic that is specialized in exhausts and welding, can make a very good product for 25% of the price.

What I have noticed reading the manual of the V8V is the following:
- the position of the 02 sensors are relevant as to ensure proper reading of the emissions.
- the quality of the catalyc material needs to be of high quality to ensure that swith/index ratio does not exceed tresheld of 0.75 (0 is perfect 1 is terrible)

Below text from the AM V8V manual:

A Switch / Index Ratio near 0.0 indicates high oxygen storage capacity, hence high HC efficiency. A
Switch / Index Ratio near 1.0 indicates low oxygen storage capacity, hence low efficiency. To improve the
robustness of the monitor, the Switch / Index Ratio is calculated using an Exponentially Weighted Moving
Average (EWMA) algorithm. If the Switch / Index Ratio exceeds the threshold, the catalyst is considered
failed.

Conditions when the 02 sensors will start operating:
Typical catalyst monitor entry conditions: Minimum Maximum
Time since engine start-up (70 oF start) 240 seconds
Engine Coolant Temp 160 oF 230 oF
Intake Air Temp 20 oF 180 oF
Engine Load 10%
Throttle Position Part Throttle Part Throttle
Time since entering closed loop fuel 30 sec
Vehicle Speed 5 mph 70 mph
Steady Air Mass Flow 1.0 lb/min 5.0 lb/min
( Note: 25 - 35 mph steady state driving must be performed to complete the monitor )


So in summary, you can lower the cell and therefore increase the flow-rate of air through the cats however when lowering the cell the quality of the catalytic material needs to be high(er) in order to ensure that the switch ratio between 1st and 2nd sensor is not triggered.

My guess why some 200 cell cats trigger emissions warning lights and others don't, is the use of different quality catalytic material combined with the correct position of 02 sensors.

So if I create my own 200cell cats I will get the highest grade catalytic material and copy the design of a known 200cell cat that doenst trigger any warnings.
I think I will get this done next month.
Will create a searate thread before I start.

Regards,
Brake

[Jalfonse]

Rob, thanks for your input, I concur BR also change the engine map and I know this as I discussed 200 cell cats with Mike before selecting DAE to do the work. My reason for choosing DAE was that they have done many of these CAT installs but can also add tuned equal length headers as a further upgrade.

Edited by jeremyc on Saturday 8th February 21:46