V8 Vantage "New Sportshift II"
Discussion
Doing the man maths and looking to the future I cant justify the price hike from my V8VR to the V12VSR. Analysing my yearning for things V12 I came to the conclusion it wasn't so much the extra power as I believed the V8 can be made to give as much umph as would be reasonable expected on a road car, it wasn't even the sound, although the V12 scream is phenomenal, with a proper tuned exhaust maybe the V8 burble is an acceptably affordable alternative. For me it came down to the gearbox.
I currently have a manual but I would swop it in a heartbeat for the Sportshift III is Sport mode as fitted to the V12V. ignoring the tiring process of town traffic imposed by the manual, as a package the change on the throttle map and the blip on downshift of SSIII does it for me.
I have looked at the AM brochure and it seems that AM have brought out a new SSII with an extra gear (making 7 gears like the SSII) for their current V8 range. Why didn't AM bin all the expense of developing a new SSII and just fit the SSIII into the V8V, along with the sports mode throttle map it would make an acceptable, affordable alternative to the V12VS?
I currently have a manual but I would swop it in a heartbeat for the Sportshift III is Sport mode as fitted to the V12V. ignoring the tiring process of town traffic imposed by the manual, as a package the change on the throttle map and the blip on downshift of SSIII does it for me.
I have looked at the AM brochure and it seems that AM have brought out a new SSII with an extra gear (making 7 gears like the SSII) for their current V8 range. Why didn't AM bin all the expense of developing a new SSII and just fit the SSIII into the V8V, along with the sports mode throttle map it would make an acceptable, affordable alternative to the V12VS?
PlusOneToo said:
Doing the man maths and looking to the future I cant justify the price hike from my V8VR to the V12VSR. Analysing my yearning for things V12 I came to the conclusion it wasn't so much the extra power as I believed the V8 can be made to give as much umph as would be reasonable expected on a road car, it wasn't even the sound, although the V12 scream is phenomenal, with a proper tuned exhaust maybe the V8 burble is an acceptably affordable alternative. For me it came down to the gearbox.
I currently have a manual but I would swop it in a heartbeat for the Sportshift III is Sport mode as fitted to the V12V. ignoring the tiring process of town traffic imposed by the manual, as a package the change on the throttle map and the blip on downshift of SSIII does it for me.
I have looked at the AM brochure and it seems that AM have brought out a new SSII with an extra gear (making 7 gears like the SSII) for their current V8 range. Why didn't AM bin all the expense of developing a new SSII and just fit the SSIII into the V8V, along with the sports mode throttle map it would make an acceptable, affordable alternative to the V12VS?
It may not be the only reason but SSIII came out in conjunction with new Bosch engine management system in V12VS and it's the extra channels in that new Bosch system that allow SSIII to carry some of the additional featuresI currently have a manual but I would swop it in a heartbeat for the Sportshift III is Sport mode as fitted to the V12V. ignoring the tiring process of town traffic imposed by the manual, as a package the change on the throttle map and the blip on downshift of SSIII does it for me.
I have looked at the AM brochure and it seems that AM have brought out a new SSII with an extra gear (making 7 gears like the SSII) for their current V8 range. Why didn't AM bin all the expense of developing a new SSII and just fit the SSIII into the V8V, along with the sports mode throttle map it would make an acceptable, affordable alternative to the V12VS?
Neil1300r said:
Err, SSII came out at least 18 months before SSIII
Understand that Neil1300r, but is that the "old" SSII? AM site says its a " new" SSII with 7 speed Accept the intro of the Bosch electronics is required but would have thought its a piece of piddle to adapted to map for 8 cylinders and not 12.
PlusOneToo said:
Neil1300r said:
Err, SSII came out at least 18 months before SSIII
Understand that Neil1300r, but is that the "old" SSII? AM site says its a " new" SSII with 7 speed Accept the intro of the Bosch electronics is required but would have thought its a piece of piddle to adapted to map for 8 cylinders and not 12.
Sportshift 2 has always been 7 speed since first introduction on the V8 Vantage S. It ran alongside Sportshift 1 [6 speed] in the standard V8 Vantage. From 2013 [ish], all V8 Vantages with Sportshift became Sportshift 2 [7 speed].
Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
roughrider]Sportshift 2 has always been 7 speed since first introduction on the V8 Vantage S. It ran alongside Sportshift 1 [6 speed] in the standard V8 Vantage. From 2013 [ish said:
, all V8 Vantages with Sportshift became Sportshift 2 [7 speed].
Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
Thank you Roughrider, I was thrown by the words "new" in the AM blurb which, as the 7 speed version II has been around since 2013, maybe stretching a point. Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
I have tried the V8VS with the new/old SSII and wasn't that comfortable with it. Hey ho back to the abacus.
roughrider]Sportshift 2 has always been 7 speed since first introduction on the V8 Vantage S. It ran alongside Sportshift 1 [6 speed] in the standard V8 Vantage. From 2013 [ish said:
, all V8 Vantages with Sportshift became Sportshift 2 [7 speed].
Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
Sportshift 1 and 2 have a single plate clutch. Sportshift 3 has a smaller diameter twin plate clutch, as previously fitted to V12 Vantage and DBS manual.
ASM2 is new since 2011!
SIII is in essence an evolution of SII, putting aside the technical differences the key variances you would notice when driving aren't that radical - a faster gear change when "on-it", the ability to automatically downshift to the lowest suitable gear when cornering, by holding the downshift paddle, and a marginally better clutch take-up in variable conditions. Of course when you combine these enhancements with a 565bhp V12 they certainly seem much more exciting than a V8S with SII.
If your budget doesn't stretch to a V12 I would recommend an extended test drive of SII in order to get more familiar with the gearbox, for example change gear in Sport Paddleshift mode above 7k ( the red line is then around 7450 on the S) and you couldn't really wish for a faster change, do it at say 6,500 and you will notice the difference, downchanges are always fast with a nice throttle blip. Anyway the point I'm making is if you liked SIII you should also enjoy SII, so give it another try.
As ever Sportshift is a Marmite feature, A.M. will have to move to dual clutch or auto in the future, only because they offer the best full automatic and manual control options combined, where as SS is really ( as we know) a manual gearbox controlled by paddles/software and auto mode is compromised ... although useful to have and works "okay" once you know its quirks!
If your budget doesn't stretch to a V12 I would recommend an extended test drive of SII in order to get more familiar with the gearbox, for example change gear in Sport Paddleshift mode above 7k ( the red line is then around 7450 on the S) and you couldn't really wish for a faster change, do it at say 6,500 and you will notice the difference, downchanges are always fast with a nice throttle blip. Anyway the point I'm making is if you liked SIII you should also enjoy SII, so give it another try.
As ever Sportshift is a Marmite feature, A.M. will have to move to dual clutch or auto in the future, only because they offer the best full automatic and manual control options combined, where as SS is really ( as we know) a manual gearbox controlled by paddles/software and auto mode is compromised ... although useful to have and works "okay" once you know its quirks!
Thank you Grant and Jonby for the detailed and informative info.
I should have re-read your recently updated excellent Guide more closely Grant shouldn't I? The last time I tested the SSII it was in the dark on a saturated rainy road so maybe not the best conditions to put it through its paces. I will give it another go.
I should have re-read your recently updated excellent Guide more closely Grant shouldn't I? The last time I tested the SSII it was in the dark on a saturated rainy road so maybe not the best conditions to put it through its paces. I will give it another go.
PlusOneToo said:
Thank you Grant and Jonby for the detailed and informative info.
I should have re-read your recently updated excellent Guide more closely Grant shouldn't I? The last time I tested the SSII it was in the dark on a saturated rainy road so maybe not the best conditions to put it through its paces. I will give it another go.
I went on the performance driving millbrook day with the asm2 box before I brought my car because it's only with time you get to know how to get the best out of it. For some learning the box might seem unnecessary hassle - for others it's part of the experience. And you still learn - I'm not sure I've tried changing above 7k in sport to see the difference. I knew it was quicker about certain revs, and I think you need to keep your foot buried in the carpet unless you want the slower change where a slight lift is better. But that's the fun, there are many different characters in the same boxI should have re-read your recently updated excellent Guide more closely Grant shouldn't I? The last time I tested the SSII it was in the dark on a saturated rainy road so maybe not the best conditions to put it through its paces. I will give it another go.
Hi everyone.
Im moving closer to the point of insanity so really could do with some 'expert' advice and some of you out there have been living with AMs for some years already so in my book you are in best position to now answer the qn raised in this forum topic. Has the AM SSII been a joy or a pain to live with? I keep hearing manual, manual, manual but then complaints about how cumbersome it is at low speeds due to the long shifts.
I know I need to try both for personal satisfaction but I love the previous generation Vantage for its looks more than anything and the thought of a cross country drive makes the spine tingle. Treating it as a GT then the SSII in a Vantage S or SSIII in a V12V seems a wiser choice but if you want to be running track days or live on top of winding B-roads a manual would suit better...
Agree?/Disagree
Also, what generally did the N430 Vantage come with as an autobox - SSII? If so was anything tweaked as a result of it being a more 'focused' car?
Appreciate help out there.
Thanks
Im moving closer to the point of insanity so really could do with some 'expert' advice and some of you out there have been living with AMs for some years already so in my book you are in best position to now answer the qn raised in this forum topic. Has the AM SSII been a joy or a pain to live with? I keep hearing manual, manual, manual but then complaints about how cumbersome it is at low speeds due to the long shifts.
I know I need to try both for personal satisfaction but I love the previous generation Vantage for its looks more than anything and the thought of a cross country drive makes the spine tingle. Treating it as a GT then the SSII in a Vantage S or SSIII in a V12V seems a wiser choice but if you want to be running track days or live on top of winding B-roads a manual would suit better...
Agree?/Disagree
Also, what generally did the N430 Vantage come with as an autobox - SSII? If so was anything tweaked as a result of it being a more 'focused' car?
Appreciate help out there.
Thanks
All IMHO...
SSII is utterly brilliant. Moved two years ago from a manual V8V to a 2016 V8VS with SSII. Best move ever.
The manual’s stick is very badly placed and probably contributed to me getting a bad shoulder (first time ever... although I am now over 40 and therefore ancient
). It wasn’t a bad shift action, as such. Perhaps a tad curmudgeonly when cold, but fine in nearly all cases.
The SSII, on the other hand perfectly suits the car. It’s not a slush auto (much written about that) and all the better for it. It has character and speed shifting when at the top of the rev range is bliss.
The N430 was largely a slightly lower spec V8VS with less leather as standard and a livery set. Both V8VS and N430 could be spec’d to be mechanically identical. Both had options for manual or SportShift, sports or comfort suspension, etc.
As SS cars also tend to be cheaper (especially with V12S’), it’s a no-brainier in my opinion. Try it. Buy it
SSII is utterly brilliant. Moved two years ago from a manual V8V to a 2016 V8VS with SSII. Best move ever.
The manual’s stick is very badly placed and probably contributed to me getting a bad shoulder (first time ever... although I am now over 40 and therefore ancient
). It wasn’t a bad shift action, as such. Perhaps a tad curmudgeonly when cold, but fine in nearly all cases.The SSII, on the other hand perfectly suits the car. It’s not a slush auto (much written about that) and all the better for it. It has character and speed shifting when at the top of the rev range is bliss.
The N430 was largely a slightly lower spec V8VS with less leather as standard and a livery set. Both V8VS and N430 could be spec’d to be mechanically identical. Both had options for manual or SportShift, sports or comfort suspension, etc.
As SS cars also tend to be cheaper (especially with V12S’), it’s a no-brainier in my opinion. Try it. Buy it
Hi,
You need to drive all options yourself then you will know. Don’t pay too much attention to this or whatever anyone else says.
Many people who criticize SS on here haven’t really spent much time driving them, if at all. It’s just all manual, manual, manual - everything else is rubbish.
I’ve driven a traditional manual V8V and V12V. I bought a 2013 V8VS SS, which was great. Then a 2014 V12VS which I still have. Fantastic car and brilliant gearbox. No way would I swap it for a traditional manual, or pretty much any other Aston.
I have a couple of other cars with traditional manual boxes. They’re great, so I do appreciate the difference.
Don’t get too hung up about it. The gearbox is only one aspect of the car. The looks, sound and feel of a Vantage are just as important. Test drive as many as you can. The V12V is a big step up from the V8. The V12VS more again. But I bet you’ll have just as much fun in a V8.
Happy hunting!
You need to drive all options yourself then you will know. Don’t pay too much attention to this or whatever anyone else says.
Many people who criticize SS on here haven’t really spent much time driving them, if at all. It’s just all manual, manual, manual - everything else is rubbish.
I’ve driven a traditional manual V8V and V12V. I bought a 2013 V8VS SS, which was great. Then a 2014 V12VS which I still have. Fantastic car and brilliant gearbox. No way would I swap it for a traditional manual, or pretty much any other Aston.
I have a couple of other cars with traditional manual boxes. They’re great, so I do appreciate the difference.
Don’t get too hung up about it. The gearbox is only one aspect of the car. The looks, sound and feel of a Vantage are just as important. Test drive as many as you can. The V12V is a big step up from the V8. The V12VS more again. But I bet you’ll have just as much fun in a V8.
Happy hunting!
I was the last post before the thread revival (changed my profile name since) and I lasted 2 years with the box before it went. I found i could only get it to work well at 10/10ths or 2/10ths, ie ringing it’s neck or totally laid back. I must also be an odd shape as I never really got comfy in the car, headroom was too tight for me, but plenty don’t have the problem, just make sure you’re ok.
I think you need to try both as others have said, but I’d personally lean to a manual if I was buying again, that said I can understand why some would think differently
I think you need to try both as others have said, but I’d personally lean to a manual if I was buying again, that said I can understand why some would think differently
Just chiming in with my support for the SSII 'box. I drove both manuals and SSII's when I was assessing what Vantage to get and was almost on the point of buying a manual but I couldn't get the 7 gears and paddles out of my mind; plus being 6' 4" with a 36" inside leg the clutch pedal on a Vantage is not ideally placed and the bite point is very high. So I tried a few more cars to scratch the paddles itch, read about how to drive a SportShift and eventually went that way - a 4.7 non-S SSII Coupe.
Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but the "D" on the selector button stands for "Don't press this" ; drive it on the paddles. The car will back off the timing to reduce power and allow the shift if you just pull the paddle, but that will often give a change that makes the passenger's head nod - if you practice just lifting off the throttle a tad as you change yourself you can get seamless changes. At light throttle and low speed you can just pull the paddles, but if you're starting to accelerate with purpose then a slight lift is required. To me this actually enhances the experience as it requires thought and practice to get the shift right - as it does with a manual. You have to remember that this is not a twin-clutch 'box with those machine-gun shifts; the hydraulics behind you are depressing a big, single-plate clutch, shifting gears and re-engaging the clutch - this takes time.
Low speeds (car park manoeuvring under about 6 mph) at can be tricky - the car can often get itself into transmission "shunt" that makes it look like you're a learner as you kangaroo forward. Again, the key is to be aware that the car has its idiosyncrasies and feather the throttle until you're rolling. The sharper throttle response in "Sport" can make controlling the shunting worse so in the early days I used to come out of "Sport" until I was on the road, but now with practice it's fine, although even now if I'm sloppy the car will punish/embarrass me.
The SS 'box will automatically shift down when the revs drop below the engines operating zone, which means you can leave the 'box to sort itself out and automatically shift down the gears as you come to a halt, BUT be aware that, say at a roundabout, if you suddenly see and go for a gap just as the car decides to downshift you can be stranded with the car between gears and a boot-full of throttle, followed by a late lurch forward after the gap has nearly closed - exciting, and not in a good way! This is particularly true of the shift down into 1st, so if I'm approaching a junction (or a speed hump) I shift down to 1st myself, so the car's ready.
You don't need to go through sequential gears with the SSII - if you want to shift from 5th to 3rd as you approach a bend all you do is the pull the LH paddle back quickly twice; the car will shift from 5th to 3rd without going through 4th. I use this all the time, (and, depending on revs/speed, the car will often throw in a rev-matching throttle blip for good measure - nice!
). Pull the paddle three times and the car will skip two gears, and so on. This also works the other way as well; if you've booted the car off the lights or during an overtake and now you just want to cruise at the speed you're at, pull the RH paddle quickly 2 (or even 3) times and the car will go straight from 3rd to 5th or 6th. The 'box will refuse to shift if you ask for a gear outside the engine's rev range, so you can pull the LH paddle as often as you like and you won't get a "money shift".
The SSII will not do a "safety change" for you at max revs - the gear indicator will turn red as you approach redline and then, if you don't shift, the engine will just bounce off the rev limiter until you do. I believe the SSI when not in "Sport" would shift automatically at close to max revs - the SSII will not.
The changes of the SSII are sharper when in "Sport" mode and I prefer these shifts. To be honest I know about the "Hyper-shift" when you're at full throttle and above 5,500 rpm but I've rarely used it on UK roads and, on the odd occasion when I have, I'm too focussed on the world travelling backwards at warp speed to notice the shift quality.
I hope this helps and apologies to those I've bored. As you can probably tell, I like the SSII box. I will admit that there are the odd occasions when I'd quite like the ZF 8-speeder out of the new Vantage so I could just put it in "D" if I'm in traffic, like I do with the daily Volvo. I must be getting old.
Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but the "D" on the selector button stands for "Don't press this" ; drive it on the paddles. The car will back off the timing to reduce power and allow the shift if you just pull the paddle, but that will often give a change that makes the passenger's head nod - if you practice just lifting off the throttle a tad as you change yourself you can get seamless changes. At light throttle and low speed you can just pull the paddles, but if you're starting to accelerate with purpose then a slight lift is required. To me this actually enhances the experience as it requires thought and practice to get the shift right - as it does with a manual. You have to remember that this is not a twin-clutch 'box with those machine-gun shifts; the hydraulics behind you are depressing a big, single-plate clutch, shifting gears and re-engaging the clutch - this takes time.
Low speeds (car park manoeuvring under about 6 mph) at can be tricky - the car can often get itself into transmission "shunt" that makes it look like you're a learner as you kangaroo forward. Again, the key is to be aware that the car has its idiosyncrasies and feather the throttle until you're rolling. The sharper throttle response in "Sport" can make controlling the shunting worse so in the early days I used to come out of "Sport" until I was on the road, but now with practice it's fine, although even now if I'm sloppy the car will punish/embarrass me.
The SS 'box will automatically shift down when the revs drop below the engines operating zone, which means you can leave the 'box to sort itself out and automatically shift down the gears as you come to a halt, BUT be aware that, say at a roundabout, if you suddenly see and go for a gap just as the car decides to downshift you can be stranded with the car between gears and a boot-full of throttle, followed by a late lurch forward after the gap has nearly closed - exciting, and not in a good way! This is particularly true of the shift down into 1st, so if I'm approaching a junction (or a speed hump) I shift down to 1st myself, so the car's ready.
You don't need to go through sequential gears with the SSII - if you want to shift from 5th to 3rd as you approach a bend all you do is the pull the LH paddle back quickly twice; the car will shift from 5th to 3rd without going through 4th. I use this all the time, (and, depending on revs/speed, the car will often throw in a rev-matching throttle blip for good measure - nice!
). Pull the paddle three times and the car will skip two gears, and so on. This also works the other way as well; if you've booted the car off the lights or during an overtake and now you just want to cruise at the speed you're at, pull the RH paddle quickly 2 (or even 3) times and the car will go straight from 3rd to 5th or 6th. The 'box will refuse to shift if you ask for a gear outside the engine's rev range, so you can pull the LH paddle as often as you like and you won't get a "money shift".The SSII will not do a "safety change" for you at max revs - the gear indicator will turn red as you approach redline and then, if you don't shift, the engine will just bounce off the rev limiter until you do. I believe the SSI when not in "Sport" would shift automatically at close to max revs - the SSII will not.
The changes of the SSII are sharper when in "Sport" mode and I prefer these shifts. To be honest I know about the "Hyper-shift" when you're at full throttle and above 5,500 rpm but I've rarely used it on UK roads and, on the odd occasion when I have, I'm too focussed on the world travelling backwards at warp speed to notice the shift quality.
I hope this helps and apologies to those I've bored. As you can probably tell, I like the SSII box. I will admit that there are the odd occasions when I'd quite like the ZF 8-speeder out of the new Vantage so I could just put it in "D" if I'm in traffic, like I do with the daily Volvo. I must be getting old.
Edited by LTP on Monday 1st June 17:14
nickv8 said:
All IMHO...
SSII is utterly brilliant. Moved two years ago from a manual V8V to a 2016 V8VS with SSII. Best move ever.
The manual’s stick is very badly placed and probably contributed to me getting a bad shoulder (first time ever... although I am now over 40 and therefore ancient ). It wasn’t a bad shift action, as such. Perhaps a tad curmudgeonly when cold, but fine in nearly all cases.
The SSII, on the other hand perfectly suits the car. It’s not a slush auto (much written about that) and all the better for it. It has character and speed shifting when at the top of the rev range is bliss.
The N430 was largely a slightly lower spec V8VS with less leather as standard and a livery set. Both V8VS and N430 could be spec’d to be mechanically identical. Both had options for manual or SportShift, sports or comfort suspension, etc.
As SS cars also tend to be cheaper (especially with V12S’), it’s a no-brainier in my opinion. Try it. Buy it
^^^^ this, Manual, manual, manual posts are usually put up from 'manual' owners and many have never even driven a 'SS'. Bit of Clarkson syndrome re TVR etc, a mate down pub says', etc, etc. They have the same gearbox and clutch. Drive both as I did and I went on condition and spec'. SSII is utterly brilliant. Moved two years ago from a manual V8V to a 2016 V8VS with SSII. Best move ever.
The manual’s stick is very badly placed and probably contributed to me getting a bad shoulder (first time ever... although I am now over 40 and therefore ancient
). It wasn’t a bad shift action, as such. Perhaps a tad curmudgeonly when cold, but fine in nearly all cases.The SSII, on the other hand perfectly suits the car. It’s not a slush auto (much written about that) and all the better for it. It has character and speed shifting when at the top of the rev range is bliss.
The N430 was largely a slightly lower spec V8VS with less leather as standard and a livery set. Both V8VS and N430 could be spec’d to be mechanically identical. Both had options for manual or SportShift, sports or comfort suspension, etc.
As SS cars also tend to be cheaper (especially with V12S’), it’s a no-brainier in my opinion. Try it. Buy it
Couple of things I forgot. The SSII has a "hill hold" feature that is very useful. If you come to a stop on an uphill gradient that's steep enough, when you apply the footbrake the gear selector shows a red "H" and the car will hold the brakes on so you can move your right foot to the throttle and then drive off without rolling back - very useful and saves hauling on the handbrake.
If you do take the SSII plunge always let the gearbox do the "clutch learning" before you engage gear at startup, with the red LED in the "N" button flashing until it's done, . I always start the car, stow my phone in the centre console then put on my seatbelt, shuffle about to get comfortable and, by the time this ritual is over, the LED has stopped flashing and the gearbox is ready.
If you do take the SSII plunge always let the gearbox do the "clutch learning" before you engage gear at startup, with the red LED in the "N" button flashing until it's done, . I always start the car, stow my phone in the centre console then put on my seatbelt, shuffle about to get comfortable and, by the time this ritual is over, the LED has stopped flashing and the gearbox is ready.
Edited by LTP on Monday 1st June 19:34
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