V12 to V12S spec

[Ex Boy Racer]

Loving my V12 Vantage, especially the manual gearbox. Can't help wondering how hard it would be to get the power up to the level of the V12S though.
How different are the engines? Surely it must be quite straightforward?

[roughrider]

Difficult/expensive i'm afraid, as the engine is 80% re-designed, particularly, moving on to Variable Valve Timing, Bosch engine management etc..........................
Unless you find a V12VS in a breakers, then you could buy everything as a package?

Edited by roughrider on Monday 11th January 13:24

Edited by roughrider on Monday 11th January 13:50

[ds2000]

Speak to Mike at BR (disclaimer: there are other tuners too) - I'm mulling it over for my V12

[Ex Boy Racer]

Wasn't aware there was such a difference. Seems a lot for a relatively small increase...

Thanks for the tip on BR - i'll contact them

[roughrider]

I guess there are many things that can be changed to get the power up over 550bhp?

[CSK1]

The V12 Vantage S gets the power down much better than the V12 Vantage as well so it is not only the engine that you would have to change but the drive train. Probably easier to start with a V12 Vantage S and convert it to stick shift like Works did on the original Vanquish if that is what you want.
Personally I find that SportshiftIII suits the S as long as you use it as a manual.

[woodsypedia]

Is it more BHP that would make a difference? From my perspective, it's not a route I'd explore. My 59 V12V suffers from not having the adaptive suspension etc, and on anything other than smooth roads, it can be quite choppy. I wonder if looking at dampers, springs and other mechanical changes etc would get you closer to a V12S in terms of driving experience. I'm not sure I'd really 'need' anymore power if that makes sense? With sport mode on - I already feel the car at the limits of the mechanics when I'm giving it the beans

Chris

[quench]

I've no personal experience, but hp gains for headers/exhaust/chip tune advertised by some seem reasonable to me. They would bring a V12V up to, or go a bit beyond, V12VS power levels.

As for traction, there is no significant change in suspension between the cars, IIRC, except for the adaptive damping and slightly softer springs rates. I'm sure the same effect could be achieved with carefully chosen aftermarket suspension on the V12V.

Does anyone know what power/torque level the 6 speed manual box is designed to withstand? How about the 7 speed automated manual in the V12VS?

[roughrider]

The 6 speed Graziano was derived from a racing gearbox, and we were told it was designed to cope with up to 900bhp! I would guess the 7 speed SS111 is similarly robust..............

[Flugplatz]

quench said:

there is no significant change in suspension between the cars, IIRC, except for the adaptive damping and slightly softer springs rates.

Apart from the significant change you highlight

[quench]

Flugplatz said:

Apart from the significant change you highlight

My point was that the basic architecture is unchanged and springs/shocks can be easily modified to obtain the desired results.

[Murph7355]

Flugplatz said:

Apart from the significant change you highlight

Come on now, apart from damping and springs, what else is there to suspension

[quench]

Murph7355 said:

Come on now, apart from damping and springs, what else is there to suspension

Let's see... basic architecture: geometry/linkages, oh and might as well forget wheels and tires, too.

Tough crowd. Then again, I guess spewing out some sarcasm is easier than making an actual contribution to the posted topic.

[ds2000]

Ex Boy Racer said:

Wasn't aware there was such a difference. Seems a lot for a relatively small increase...

Thanks for the tip on BR - i'll contact them

Yeah, Mike has send me some very comprehensive information over. Not cheap but cheaper than going to a V12s and you can keep the stick. Some of it here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=28&...

quench said:

Let's see... basic architecture: geometry/linkages, oh and might as well forget wheels and tires, too.

Tough crowd. Then again, I guess spewing out some sarcasm is easier than making an actual contribution to the posted topic.

I think you'll have to admit defeat on that one, without knowledge of what is different we can't really say "not much difference" - I'd be amazed if the linkages and rollbars are unchanged and no doubt the geo setup is different too. Adaptive dampers can be fitted and I'm sure they'd smooth the V12V out a little.

[quench]

ds2000 said:

I think you'll have to admit defeat on that one, without knowledge of what is different we can't really say "not much difference" - I'd be amazed if the linkages and rollbars are unchanged and no doubt the geo setup is different too. Adaptive dampers can be fitted and I'm sure they'd smooth the V12V out a little.

It appears that the intention of my initial post was unclear. I was just trying to respond to the observations that the V12V can have some difficulty in putting down power, by suggesting that some aftermarket spring/shock tuning might well address the issue. The intent was not to get into a debate about the exact suspension differences between the V12V and the S, so I'll shift into reverse gear and defer to the experts who chimed in above.

[ds2000]

Changing out the OE tyres is probably the biggest upgrade for traction on the V12

[Murph7355]

quench said:

Let's see... basic architecture: geometry/linkages, oh and might as well forget wheels and tires, too.

Tough crowd. Then again, I guess spewing out some sarcasm is easier than making an actual contribution to the posted topic.

Oooooooooh. Over tiiiiiiired (you should get on the cushions thread ).

[GT Two]

I think the newer engine has direct fuel injection? not sure if this is a good thing or not. Probably to help with emissions.

You could upgrade the exhaust which would release a few horses and lose some weight.

Then focus on losing some more weight out of the car which would have a similar effect of making the car quicker and also handling better.

Carbon seats
Lighter wheels
Lighter exhaust/manifolds
Decat
ditch the parcel shelf
Lighter battery

[Zod]

GT Two said:

I think the newer engine has direct fuel injection? not sure if this is a good thing or not. Probably to help with emissions.

You could change the exhaust upgrade which would release a few horses and lose some weight.

Then focus on losing some more weight out of the car which would have a similar effect of making the car quicker and also handling better.

Carbon seats
Lighter wheels
Lighter exhaust/manifolds
Decat
ditch the parcel shelf
Lighter battery

The parcel shelf cannot weigh more than 2kg. For those desperate to save weight there, Aston offers a carbon fibre parcel shelf. No doubt at a very reasonable cost.

[AMDBSNick]

Call Mike after having a read of this

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...