Driving 40 days with bad O2 sensors how this affect the Cat

[pete1212]

It has taken 40 days to find out the O2 sensors were bad, how much do you think this can affect the Catalitic converter?
Could it be a bad cat affectting the O2 sensors?
thank you

Edited by pete1212 on Tuesday 10th May 13:30

[Brakke]

Days is a bad measure. Has it been standing still for 40 days, then the damage is non-existant. Did you do a EU trip?


[pete1212]

Brakke said:

Days is a bad measure. Has it been standing still for 40 days, then the damage is non-existant. Did you do a EU trip?


Yes sorry, I drove 1500 km, from portugal to spain and then 500 km in spain or more. in between visits to the dealership.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkfW3TutJoE

it has his idle staying at 900 instead of 750, ( and it was accelerating alone like this video) and this for minutes when started cold, after when warm the problem was not that sensitive but probably still there. it accelerates less now but idle is 900 when cold and it stay there when first started. they are going to update the 4 O2 sensors and verify a hose connection at bottom of engine they said?

Edited by pete1212 on Tuesday 10th May 13:40

[Brakke]

An oxygen sensor failure can lead to incorrect readings of exhaust gasses. The faulty sensor can cause a too rich or too lean condition. Excessive rich fuel conditions and exhaust leaks ahead of the converter are prime examples of cat damage. They result in higher than normal temperatures that can cause matting erosion and burn away or melt converter coatings. If temperatures are high enough, the ceramic substrate itself will melt and clog.

So depending on your situation its unclear if it was running too hot or not, but its not healthy for the cats for sure.
So the question is:
- did your car use more fuel than normal in your driving experience. Unfortunately not an exact science, just a way to know if its burning more fuel than normal
- How long was it doing this.
- How old are your cats at the moment (in kms).

My guess they are fine, as normal cats should last 100.000 km on a car if decently treated.

Keep us posted how things turn out.

[pete1212]

Brakke said:

An oxygen sensor failure can lead to incorrect readings of exhaust gasses. The faulty sensor can cause a too rich or too lean condition. Excessive rich fuel conditions and exhaust leaks ahead of the converter are prime examples of cat damage. They result in higher than normal temperatures that can cause matting erosion and burn away or melt converter coatings. If temperatures are high enough, the ceramic substrate itself will melt and clog.

So depending on your situation its unclear if it was running too hot or not, but its not healthy for the cats for sure.
So the question is:
- did your car use more fuel than normal in your driving experience. Unfortunately not an exact science, just a way to know if its burning more fuel than normal
- How long was it doing this.
- How old are your cats at the moment (in kms).

My guess they are fine, as normal cats should last 100.000 km on a car if decently treated.

Keep us posted how things turn out.

Thank you Brakke again,

the car is 35000 km 23000 miles.
the problem has occurred over 1500 km during 45 days.
no the car was not using more gas, i find it even economic but a bit of loss of power yes, i fell this. and that it smell worst these last days.

[Brakke]

I wouldnt worry too much about it to be honest. Its not a very old car and you havent been driving it for very long either like that, so small chance that it endured any significant damage.

[Brakke]

BTW

Just get 200 cell cats.
Gets you better mpg, better sound, slightly better throtle response and about 5-10hp more

[DB9VolanteDriver]

Brakke said:

BTW

Just get 200 cell cats.
Gets you better mpg, better sound, slightly better throtle response and about 5-10hp more

You're talking about secondary cats, are you not? He's got 4 primary cats that would require new manifolds, etc. etc.

[Brakke]

Ah sorry i didnt know that.
In which case, I would just delete the 2nd cats

I believe only the first 2 cats have o2 sensors, the last 2 cats dont have any 02 measurement at all if im not mistaken (similar to my v12vr)

[DB9VolanteDriver]

Brakke said:

Ah sorry i didnt know that.
In which case, I would just delete the 2nd cats

I believe only the first 2 cats have o2 sensors, the last 2 cats dont have any 02 measurement at all if im not mistaken (similar to my v12vr)

You are mistaken. The V12 has 4 primary cats each with pre and post O2 sensors for a total of 8. Getting rid of the secondarty cats has no effect on the potential for cat ingestion.

[Brakke]

Huh?

Im pretty sure that the V12V has primary & secondary cats in distinctly separate parts of the car - primary up in the headers and secondary near the backbox. The secondaries on V12 vantages dont have any monitoring with 02 sensors.

I also owned a V8V 4.3 until a few months ago, and that one only had primary cats.

I know that later model Vantage V8 got 4 cats as well, I thought they also had 2 primaries and 2 secondaries. Again with secondary cats not having any o2 monitoring.
Ive never heard of Aston Martin V12s or V8s having 4 primary cats....

Just read this topic and several people will confirm they have removed their 2 secondary cats on V12.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=129...

EDIT: I wasnt making suggestion to remove the secondary cats to prevent the engine swallowing them up, just for more noise

Edited by Brakke on Tuesday 10th May 16:41

Edited by Brakke on Tuesday 10th May 16:42

[R129 300SL]

Yes 4 primary cats.

2 on each side of the V in the manifolds.

Plus the secondary cats further down.

[pete1212]

Thank you guys and Brakke, I appreciate a lot your help

[Brakke]

Ah yes, I was mistaken indeed.

I was confused as I thought the claim was there are no secondary cats only 4 primaries. But indeed, I stand corrected: 4 primary cats (not 2) in the manifold and 2 secondary cats downstream with no o2 sensors.

[Brakke]

pete1212 said:

Thank you guys and Brakke, I appreciate a lot your help

Good luck and keep us posted if all works out again once all o2 sensors are fixed.

[pete1212]

Brakke said:

Good luck and keep us posted if all works out again once all o2 sensors are fixed.

Thanks but I regret my purchase, 60 days and 45 days in the shop, i actually bring the car 6 times, drove 1000 in taxi and the car to bring it in . it will affect me for ever, If I knew this car will not send an error message I will not have bought it. The car is not only too heavy, its not modern, and the warranty took way way too much time to fix it, they should have done this smoke tests the first days and send the sensor the first week at least, yesterday after hearing from the warranty to replace the sensors, the shop was waiting AML to tell them what is the sensor references to order them. sorry they killed me. for me the company is too small or too old. I will not spend 1 cents in the extended warranty. I will have done better buying a f type R, a grand turismo or a panamera turbo, I do not find it that ugly and these cars are more fun at legal speed during accelerations.

Edited by pete1212 on Wednesday 11th May 08:57

[Grumpydev]

I've had the odd CEL come on since I've had the car, always after I've been driving the car like a granny, and it's always cleared itself pretty sharpish - happened a few days ago and hasn't cleared up after 4 or 5 drives so reset it with an OBD bluetooth thing:

-P0133: O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 1) (Powertrain, Generic)
-P0153: O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 2 Sensor 1) (Powertrain, Generic)

Given it's logging both upstream ones I might get them both swapped rather than risk cat failure, they seem to be about 25quid on EBay, is this the right thing?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-ASTON-MARTIN-VANTAGE...

The temps seem healthy enough in the error log (I think), but better safe than sorry if it's peanuts to get them swapped:

-Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1: 595 °C
-Catalyst Temperature Bank 2, Sensor 1: 595 °C

[Brakke]

pete1212 said:

Thanks but I regret my purchase, 60 days and 45 days in the shop, i actually bring the car 6 times, drove 1000 in taxi and the car to bring it in . it will affect me for ever, If I knew this car will not send an error message I will not have bought it. The car is not only too heavy, its not modern, and the warranty took way way too much time to fix it, they should have done this smoke tests the first days and send the sensor the first week at least, yesterday after hearing from the warranty to replace the sensors, the shop was waiting AML to tell them what is the sensor references to order them. sorry they killed me. for me the company is too small or too old. I will not spend 1 cents in the extended warranty. I will have done better buying a f type R, a grand turismo or a panamera turbo, I do not find it that ugly and these cars are more fun at legal speed during accelerations.

Edited by pete1212 on Wednesday 11th May 08:57

Im sorry to hear that.
Hopefully it gets fixed now.
I had the exact opposite, my first AM was a 4.3 Vantage which I had for 3 years and only sold 3 months ago. Never had any issues with it... Hopefully once this is fixed you will get to enjoy it like I did.
Best of luck and keep us posted.

[SS972]

pete1212 said:

Thanks but I regret my purchase, 60 days and 45 days in the shop, i actually bring the car 6 times, drove 1000 in taxi and the car to bring it in . it will affect me for ever, If I knew this car will not send an error message I will not have bought it. The car is not only too heavy, its not modern, and the warranty took way way too much time to fix it, they should have done this smoke tests the first days and send the sensor the first week at least, yesterday after hearing from the warranty to replace the sensors, the shop was waiting AML to tell them what is the sensor references to order them. sorry they killed me. for me the company is too small or too old. I will not spend 1 cents in the extended warranty. I will have done better buying a f type R, a grand turismo or a panamera turbo, I do not find it that ugly and these cars are more fun at legal speed during accelerations.

Edited by pete1212 on Wednesday 11th May 08:57

Yes I think you'r better suited to a Jag,leave the Aston to real enthusiasts.

[CSK1]

SS972 said:

pete1212 said:

Thanks but I regret my purchase, 60 days and 45 days in the shop, i actually bring the car 6 times, drove 1000 in taxi and the car to bring it in . it will affect me for ever, If I knew this car will not send an error message I will not have bought it. The car is not only too heavy, its not modern, and the warranty took way way too much time to fix it, they should have done this smoke tests the first days and send the sensor the first week at least, yesterday after hearing from the warranty to replace the sensors, the shop was waiting AML to tell them what is the sensor references to order them. sorry they killed me. for me the company is too small or too old. I will not spend 1 cents in the extended warranty. I will have done better buying a f type R, a grand turismo or a panamera turbo, I do not find it that ugly and these cars are more fun at legal speed during accelerations.

Edited by pete1212 on Wednesday 11th May 08:57

Yes I think you'r better suited to a Jag,leave the Aston to real enthusiasts.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Before changing to a Panamera, I'd go to an eye specialist first, just to be sure nothing's wrong with your sight!
You can always encounter a problem with any car, you are having a minor problem that has been dealt with poorly by your dealer, find another dealer or independent who knows his cars and if you're fed up with your Rapide, upgrade to a Rapide S. You will find that Porsche's are not as reliable as they used to be, they've become a premium manufacturer producing close to 200,000 cars/year. Aston Martin is much more exclusive with about 3,500 cars/year and certainly no less reliable for it.