Vantage V12 vs V12s depreciation

[Ex Boy Racer]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on future depreciation.
I have a V12 roadster (manual obviously) and, probably like most of us, look at how much they go for these days. It seems to me that values have held for the coupe and roadster versions of the original, while the V12S continues to go down alarmingly. This is even though there is now a manual option for the V12S.
What do you think? Will the V12S depreciation continue? Will the V12 remain a depreciation-proof?
I ask as I am just about to sign up for a new V12S manual roadster. The new car is brilliant, but I would be gutted if that drops £30K in the first year while my old one holds its value.
I know that no-one can read the future; just wonder what you all reckon.

[divetheworld]

I seem to remember a breach of rules.... I dont see any pics of a nice Azurite Vantage appearing anywhere in these hallowed pages.....

[Flugplatz]

Well, you are definitely in for a minimum £30K drop from list in year one I would say.
My "S" roadster lost £40K in the first 6 months and just 1000 miles and that's when I bought it.

Long term I think the "S" will recover as more non "S" owners get to try the car and
enjoy the vast improvements Aston have made over the non "S" cars.

[Ex Boy Racer]

Good point about the pic - washing it now so I'll send in an hour!

[cayman-black]

If you don't want to much depreciation stay with what you have imo. No idea how the new one will do but if there are only a few perhaps quite well.

[Ex Boy Racer]

Flugplatz said:

Well, you are definitely in for a minimum £30K drop from list in year one I would say.
My "S" roadster lost £40K in the first 6 months and just 1000 miles and that's when I bought it.

Long term I think the "S" will recover as more non "S" owners get to try the car and
enjoy the vast improvements Aston have made over the non "S" cars.

That's crazy! Stupid amount to lose...

problem is, what is the chance of picking up a nearly new manual S?

[jj525]

The "S" was priced to high and had the wrong tranny, depreciation was predictable. The manual "S" will do very well in the after market, great car in small numbers.

[IanV12VR]

Flugplatz said:

Well, you are definitely in for a minimum £30K drop from list in year one I would say.
My "S" roadster lost £40K in the first 6 months and just 1000 miles and that's when I bought it.

Long term I think the "S" will recover as more non "S" owners get to try the car and
enjoy the vast improvements Aston have made over the non "S" cars.

Is that assuming the first owner paid full list? Doubt they did if my deal was anything to go by. I was very surprised by the discount offered when I bought new - and then pushed for a little bit more just to make sure it was the best deal I could get.

Would be interested to know if they are discounting the new manual S as my understanding was that, for a number of factors, discounts were minimal. If that were the case then that should help keeping depreciation to a lower level than has been experienced in the past.

[Brakke]

My guess:

The new S (manual only) will drop a bit in the beginning. The price difference to a "normal" manual is just too high.
Long term: maybe it picks up and becomes a collectible, as its created in small numbers....
Whatever you do, just enjoy the car

[woodsypedia]

This is a personal view - so don't all jump at me at once...

Pro's: Manual Gearbox, Apple CarPlay, Adaptive Suspension, new Garmin Nav, lightweight wheels (they look so good!),
Con's: Dog Leg Gearbox (which doesn't feel well sprung), Waterfall Console (works in the Vanq but I'm not sure in the Vantage), loss of the metal DBS style gearstick

My mind still is out. Don't think I can justify the cost to change to a new V12S manual, and given Aston are set to release so many new models - I think I'd rather put my money into something that doesn't look exactly the same as I already have.

Chris.

[Ex Boy Racer]

woodsypedia said:

This is a personal view - so don't all jump at me at once...

Pro's: Manual Gearbox, Apple CarPlay, Adaptive Suspension, new Garmin Nav, lightweight wheels (they look so good!),
Con's: Dog Leg Gearbox (which doesn't feel well sprung), Waterfall Console (works in the Vanq but I'm not sure in the Vantage), loss of the metal DBS style gearstick

My mind still is out. Don't think I can justify the cost to change to a new V12S manual, and given Aston are set to release so many new models - I think I'd rather put my money into something that doesn't look exactly the same as I already have.

Chris.

But..... turbos...

[AdamV12V]

Ex Boy Racer said:

woodsypedia said:

This is a personal view - so don't all jump at me at once...

Pro's: Manual Gearbox, Apple CarPlay, Adaptive Suspension, new Garmin Nav, lightweight wheels (they look so good!),
Con's: Dog Leg Gearbox (which doesn't feel well sprung), Waterfall Console (works in the Vanq but I'm not sure in the Vantage), loss of the metal DBS style gearstick

My mind still is out. Don't think I can justify the cost to change to a new V12S manual, and given Aston are set to release so many new models - I think I'd rather put my money into something that doesn't look exactly the same as I already have.

Chris.

But..... turbos...

Chris - That is somewhat over simplified (as I'm sure you know) and you have missed of quite of few of the V12VS technical benefits - rather obviously perhaps the increased performance and economy of the 565BHP engine, AM shift, the gearbox being 7spd close ratio with a twin plate clutch, sharper steering, and the revised sports exhaust, oh and a good handful of minor interior upgrades too.

Your comments on the dog leg not feeling well sprung (assuming you have driven the china grey car doing the rounds at the moment?) also need to be in context that this car is pre-production, so nobody really knows for sure how the final cars will turn out.

Anyway as ExBoyRacer replied - the new Vantage engines are all Turbos and it remains to be confirmed that the 5.2 V12 Turbo will even make it into the Vantage, so it could just end up being one of the higher output AMG V8 versions.

So back to the original question - depreciation comparison of the two models. In the short term a used V12VR will almost certainly loose less than a brand new V12VSR Man, but in the very long term the final handful V12VSR Manuals will almost certainly end up to be THE most desirable of all the V12 Vantage versions (except perhaps the GT12), but who knows how much either will be worth without a crystal ball? I have no doubt that all V12VS 7spd manuals will be very rare, and roadsters will be very very rare indeed.

If the potential of depreciation is overriding your feelings right now then maybe its not the right car for you, but you will be missing out on a very special car indeed and you might just regret it.

[Brakke]

On the V12VR:

Not that it matters, as I bought it because its sex on wheels...but ive noticed that since I bougth my V12VR 6-7 months ago, supply has dried up to only 2 cars both of which are offered for a higher price than 6 months back. Maybe thats seasonality (winter vs summer), but dont see the v12vr coming down on price anytime soon.

Having said that....I am also interested in the V12VSM but for the same reasons am not going to buy one, because it just is too similar to a "normal"v12vr....if however in 1-2 years a good used one came along then I might jump on it depending on price and circumstances.
Good luck to whatever you decide to do!

[jj525]

jj525 said:

The "S" was priced too high and had the wrong tranny, depreciation was predictable. The manual "S" will do very well in the after market, great car in small numbers.

[jonby]

Brakke said:

On the V12VR:

Not that it matters, as I bought it because its sex on wheels...but ive noticed that since I bougth my V12VR 6-7 months ago, supply has dried up to only 2 cars both of which are offered for a higher price than 6 months back. Maybe thats seasonality (winter vs summer), but dont see the v12vr coming down on price anytime soon.

Having said that....I am also interested in the V12VSM but for the same reasons am not going to buy one, because it just is too similar to a "normal"v12vr....if however in 1-2 years a good used one came along then I might jump on it depending on price and circumstances.
Good luck to whatever you decide to do!

I think with V12VR of which I am an owner, you have to remember just how few were made - 101 total, c. 35 in the UK I believe. That's a very small number and some people are committed keepers so from now onwards, unlikely to ever be more than 2 or 3 for sale at one time. If you are set on having lightweight/standard seats for instance, or certain colours are ruled out, you may have to wait a long time for an acceptable example to be available at any price

I am biased of course, but most of us original owners have always said (hoped) that after a few yrs (they were mostly delivered back end of 2012/early 2013) prices would firm then rise

[northernmedia]

I paid 98k for my S back in September - worth that now, depreciation?

[hornbaek]

There are 41 V12s for sale in the classifieds which to me constitues a bit of an overhang given that we are into august already. For normal people, and not us Aston owners or previous owners there is no real difference between these cars. The new manual V12V seems completely overprised at 150k+ as it is an old car with a bit more horsepower and my guess is that they will take a large initial dip towards the 90k that a low mileage V12V manual now seems to cost as the difference between the cars for the untrained eye is rather limited.

[RobDown]

hornbaek said:

There are 41 V12s for sale in the classifieds which to me constitues a bit of an overhang given that we are into august already. For normal people, and not us Aston owners or previous owners there is no real difference between these cars. The new manual V12V seems completely overprised at 150k+ as it is an old car with a bit more horsepower and my guess is that they will take a large initial dip towards the 90k that a low mileage V12V manual now seems to cost as the difference between the cars for the untrained eye is rather limited.

I'm not totally convinced by that argument, albeit I'd be amazed if there wasn't some depreciation initially. I don't think these cars will be bought (and certainly not sold) by an untrained eye. After all, we're not talking about a mass market product; the v12vs manual is going to effectively be a very limited edition (how many months of production are we really looking at here if Adam, one of the first to order, isn't getting his car until October?)

So its going to be a niche product bought by people that know what they want (a manual isn't one for the 'untrained eye'). And history of classic Aston's tells us that manuals (and particularly convertible, volante, roadster) are the ones to own over time

[hornbaek]

The issue is, that are not going to be that many because there is very limited demand for these cars. So if there is not any demand now what is going to change that in 5 years time. We are not suddenly going to see many people wanting a manual V12VS. Produced numbers and liquidity in the market is going to be low which tells me, that unless it is cheap in 5 years time from now nobody it will be hard to shift. So "rare" is not always "valuable"

This is a completely diffrent scenario to Porsche GT3 RS 4.0 which were all sold before they were announced and where the latent demand was bigger than the supply at the time which is why prices are still way over the list price.

[RobDown]

But I can give you dozens of examples where initi demand might have been limited (for whatever reason) but where values have subsequently accelerated away. We could start with the recent Vantage Zagato as a prime example. Try offering an owner list price today....

If, as some of us expect, the new Vantage is only offered with a turbo'd AMG V8, these final few v12 manuals could become overnight classics