GT12 inlet manifolds
Discussion
AML marketing bumph talks about magnesium alloy inlet manifolds on GT12, and it's been mentioned as being part of the "power pack" that is being offered.
Since it looks pretty similar to the standard part, does anyone know if it has a larger throttle body to get more air into the engine or if it has some clever trickery to impart more swirl to the fuel/air mix? Or if it's just a weight saving change with no real impact on performance?
Since it looks pretty similar to the standard part, does anyone know if it has a larger throttle body to get more air into the engine or if it has some clever trickery to impart more swirl to the fuel/air mix? Or if it's just a weight saving change with no real impact on performance?
JohnG1 said:
AML marketing bumph talks about magnesium alloy inlet manifolds on GT12, and it's been mentioned as being part of the "power pack" that is being offered.
Since it looks pretty similar to the standard part, does anyone know if it has a larger throttle body to get more air into the engine or if it has some clever trickery to impart more swirl to the fuel/air mix? Or if it's just a weight saving change with no real impact on performance?
Bump! Any takers?Since it looks pretty similar to the standard part, does anyone know if it has a larger throttle body to get more air into the engine or if it has some clever trickery to impart more swirl to the fuel/air mix? Or if it's just a weight saving change with no real impact on performance?
RobDown said:
Sorry John, no idea.
But at a guess I would have thought it would have to be more than about just weight loss, as the BHP improvement on the GT12 is quite large isn't it (30+)?
Not entirely like-for-like I know, but the GT8 titanium exhaust and decat only officially adds 10bhp.
Not sure its directly comparible with the GT8 exhaust as what the V8 is capable of will differ to what the V12 is...But at a guess I would have thought it would have to be more than about just weight loss, as the BHP improvement on the GT12 is quite large isn't it (30+)?
Not entirely like-for-like I know, but the GT8 titanium exhaust and decat only officially adds 10bhp.
Anyway, didn't BamfordMike post something recently on what he felt the likely split of improvements were on the V12VS (GT12) Performance Pack exhaust and manifolds was? I've had a quick look and can't immediately find the thread, but I'm sure he did...
I can't comment about the mag inlets on GT12 - not seen the part in my hand or cross fitted a pair to a prior model V12 and tested - one day though!! I can say I doubt the throttles are bigger, considering that the shallowest throttle blade angle permissible on stock throttle bore was always close to being at / over normal design methodology limits for idle air flow control.
I can tell you that the 4.3L Power upgrade kit sold moons ago had a new inlet manifold as part of the make-up of the kit, that whilst although looking pretty painted black, was identical internal design specifications to the standard silver inlet manifold. It did have a vacuum pick up for the valves in the air box though and when all the kit was laid out on a bench, that big old hunk of metal sure did make the kit represent it's asking price.
I think it's safe to say 15BHP - 20BHP decat and ECU remap. That would mean approx. 1BHP per pot 'IF' the mag inlet did anything - which considering the cost, questions the logic why for the poor bang per buck, so unless it's just for s
ts, giggles and bragging rights at the bar talking tech with a McLaren owner I can't really see point of it beyond weight reduction and like the 4.3L V8, looking different when the bonnet is opened.
The wording on the advert is interesting too. The small print says up to 30BHP depending on starting point. Rule 1.01 when selling an upgrade kit you budding modifying engineers, an upgrade kit returns a delta on an engine - period. So instead of the advert stating up to 30BHP, if the kit categorically returned 30BHP, it should be worded a delta of 30 BHP will be delivered for the considerable spend. To the trained eye, using the words they have done only serves as a conduit to bring doubt, but I'm sure one of those well informed factory insider posters will come along to waffle a retort!z
I can tell you that the 4.3L Power upgrade kit sold moons ago had a new inlet manifold as part of the make-up of the kit, that whilst although looking pretty painted black, was identical internal design specifications to the standard silver inlet manifold. It did have a vacuum pick up for the valves in the air box though and when all the kit was laid out on a bench, that big old hunk of metal sure did make the kit represent it's asking price.
I think it's safe to say 15BHP - 20BHP decat and ECU remap. That would mean approx. 1BHP per pot 'IF' the mag inlet did anything - which considering the cost, questions the logic why for the poor bang per buck, so unless it's just for s
ts, giggles and bragging rights at the bar talking tech with a McLaren owner I can't really see point of it beyond weight reduction and like the 4.3L V8, looking different when the bonnet is opened.The wording on the advert is interesting too. The small print says up to 30BHP depending on starting point. Rule 1.01 when selling an upgrade kit you budding modifying engineers, an upgrade kit returns a delta on an engine - period. So instead of the advert stating up to 30BHP, if the kit categorically returned 30BHP, it should be worded a delta of 30 BHP will be delivered for the considerable spend. To the trained eye, using the words they have done only serves as a conduit to bring doubt, but I'm sure one of those well informed factory insider posters will come along to waffle a retort!z
BamfordMike said:
I can't comment about the mag inlets on GT12 - not seen the part in my hand or cross fitted a pair to a prior model V12 and tested - one day though!! I can say I doubt the throttles are bigger, considering that the shallowest throttle blade angle permissible on stock throttle bore was always close to being at / over normal design methodology limits for idle air flow control.
I can tell you that the 4.3L Power upgrade kit sold moons ago had a new inlet manifold as part of the make-up of the kit, that whilst although looking pretty painted black, was identical internal design specifications to the standard silver inlet manifold. It did have a vacuum pick up for the valves in the air box though and when all the kit was laid out on a bench, that big old hunk of metal sure did make the kit represent it's asking price.
I think it's safe to say 15BHP - 20BHP decat and ECU remap. That would mean approx. 1BHP per pot 'IF' the mag inlet did anything - which considering the cost, questions the logic why for the poor bang per buck, so unless it's just for sts, giggles and bragging rights at the bar talking tech with a McLaren owner I can't really see point of it beyond weight reduction and like the 4.3L V8, looking different when the bonnet is opened.
The wording on the advert is interesting too. The small print says up to 30BHP depending on starting point. Rule 1.01 when selling an upgrade kit you budding modifying engineers, an upgrade kit returns a delta on an engine - period. So instead of the advert stating up to 30BHP, if the kit categorically returned 30BHP, it should be worded a delta of 30 BHP will be delivered for the considerable spend. To the trained eye, using the words they have done only serves as a conduit to bring doubt, but I'm sure one of those well informed factory insider posters will come along to waffle a retort!z
Hi MikeI can tell you that the 4.3L Power upgrade kit sold moons ago had a new inlet manifold as part of the make-up of the kit, that whilst although looking pretty painted black, was identical internal design specifications to the standard silver inlet manifold. It did have a vacuum pick up for the valves in the air box though and when all the kit was laid out on a bench, that big old hunk of metal sure did make the kit represent it's asking price.
I think it's safe to say 15BHP - 20BHP decat and ECU remap. That would mean approx. 1BHP per pot 'IF' the mag inlet did anything - which considering the cost, questions the logic why for the poor bang per buck, so unless it's just for s
ts, giggles and bragging rights at the bar talking tech with a McLaren owner I can't really see point of it beyond weight reduction and like the 4.3L V8, looking different when the bonnet is opened.The wording on the advert is interesting too. The small print says up to 30BHP depending on starting point. Rule 1.01 when selling an upgrade kit you budding modifying engineers, an upgrade kit returns a delta on an engine - period. So instead of the advert stating up to 30BHP, if the kit categorically returned 30BHP, it should be worded a delta of 30 BHP will be delivered for the considerable spend. To the trained eye, using the words they have done only serves as a conduit to bring doubt, but I'm sure one of those well informed factory insider posters will come along to waffle a retort!z
Presumably you guys have ways of getting the same increase. Have you carried any out on the S engine?
Found this:
"The V12S performance pack includes brand new cast magnesium inlet manifolds. The new design inlet manifold has enhanced airflow routing through internal fencing that increases air speed via a Venturi effect to provide more air to the inlet chamber as well as more evenly distributing air across the cylinder heads. As a result, there is improved response and power distribution through the engine speed range. Replacing the standard aluminium manifolds with lightweight magnesium also saves 1.6 kg."
http://www.astonmartin.com/en/accessories/v12-vant...
Not sure this makes sense - a Venturi effect is a choke isn't it, so that reduces pressure, which is contrary to the assertion of more air to the inlet chamber??
Tell me I am wrong (with some explanation) and I will be happy!
"The V12S performance pack includes brand new cast magnesium inlet manifolds. The new design inlet manifold has enhanced airflow routing through internal fencing that increases air speed via a Venturi effect to provide more air to the inlet chamber as well as more evenly distributing air across the cylinder heads. As a result, there is improved response and power distribution through the engine speed range. Replacing the standard aluminium manifolds with lightweight magnesium also saves 1.6 kg."
http://www.astonmartin.com/en/accessories/v12-vant...
Not sure this makes sense - a Venturi effect is a choke isn't it, so that reduces pressure, which is contrary to the assertion of more air to the inlet chamber??
Tell me I am wrong (with some explanation) and I will be happy!
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