Understanding the SportShift III gearbox

[Thorburn]

My Dad has a MY16 V12 Vantage S which, due to his health, I'm having to drive semi-regularly as he's struggling to drive longer distances for car events. No great chore as it is a lovely thing and we share a mutual love of cars, even if my tastes are more Hethel than Gaydon.

Having taken it down to Goodwood at the weekend for the Members Meet I was wondering if people could offer some advice with the SportShift III gearbox though - fine with it on the move, but find it rather awkward at low speed and on slopes.

First of all, in stop-start traffic should I be worrying about clutch wear? It feels like when crawling at (roughly) sub-10mph the clutch is being slipped as revs stay constant as you creep forward on the throttle, so am I better off stopping, waiting for a gap to form and then driving into it, or am I okay trickling along at low speed like this? I understand things like reversing uphill can hurt it due to the long ratio, but is it going to be causing any issues in 1st?

Second. Best way of holding the car at uphill junctions? I was being a little paranoid as I didn't want to have a properly stupid accident by rolling backwards into the car behind and was holding it on the handbrake, but was quite easy to find myself fully engaging it and pulling away with the handbrake on. I understand there is a hill-hold function, signified by H on the gear selector, but wasn't entirely sure how to engage this consistently?

Finally, is there a way of lifting the revs slightly to be ready to pull away, without slipping the clutch. I'm not looking to do standing start 0-60mph's, but again when you need to get out into a gap it would be nice to not just be going from sitting on the brake to pushing the throttle from tick-over. I'm ASSUMING I can just have left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle holding it at say 2000rpm and it won't engage the clutch until I release the brake, but didn't really fancy experimenting with it without some knowledge of what it was going to do lest I just heat up the clutch or pull out into oncoming traffic.

Any help with these would be much appreciated.

[northernmedia]

Thorburn said:

My Dad has a MY16 V12 Vantage S which, due to his health, I'm having to drive semi-regularly as he's struggling to drive longer distances for car events. No great chore as it is a lovely thing and we share a mutual love of cars, even if my tastes are more Hethel than Gaydon.

Having taken it down to Goodwood at the weekend for the Members Meet I was wondering if people could offer some advice with the SportShift III gearbox though - fine with it on the move, but find it rather awkward at low speed and on slopes.

First of all, in stop-start traffic should I be worrying about clutch wear? It feels like when crawling at (roughly) sub-10mph the clutch is being slipped as revs stay constant as you creep forward on the throttle, so am I better off stopping, waiting for a gap to form and then driving into it, or am I okay trickling along at low speed like this? I understand things like reversing uphill can hurt it due to the long ratio, but is it going to be causing any issues in 1st?

Second. Best way of holding the car at uphill junctions? I was being a little paranoid as I didn't want to have a properly stupid accident by rolling backwards into the car behind and was holding it on the handbrake, but was quite easy to find myself fully engaging it and pulling away with the handbrake on. I understand there is a hill-hold function, signified by H on the gear selector, but wasn't entirely sure how to engage this consistently?

Finally, is there a way of lifting the revs slightly to be ready to pull away, without slipping the clutch. I'm not looking to do standing start 0-60mph's, but again when you need to get out into a gap it would be nice to not just be going from sitting on the brake to pushing the throttle from tick-over. I'm ASSUMING I can just have left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle holding it at say 2000rpm and it won't engage the clutch until I release the brake, but didn't really fancy experimenting with it without some knowledge of what it was going to do lest I just heat up the clutch or pull out into oncoming traffic.

Any help with these would be much appreciated.

Your father has great taste in cars!

Let me try to answer some of your questions...

First of all, in stop-start traffic should I be worrying about clutch wear?

Potentially yes.


It feels like when crawling at (roughly) sub-10mph the clutch is being slipped as revs stay constant as you creep forward on the throttle, so am I better off stopping, waiting for a gap to form and then driving into it, or am I okay trickling along at low speed like this?

I'm fairly sure that the gearbox engages fully at around 6mph so you're probably best doing as you say by moving away when a sizable gap appears and stopping again rather than feathering. That said it is designed to work in that manner but may wear your clutch more quickly.


Second. Best way of holding the car at uphill junctions? I was being a little paranoid as I didn't want to have a properly stupid accident by rolling backwards into the car behind and was holding it on the handbrake, but was quite easy to find myself fully engaging it and pulling away with the handbrake on. I understand there is a hill-hold function, signified by H on the gear selector, but wasn't entirely sure how to engage this consistently?

Hill hold will operate automatically on a gradient. No need to use the handbrake. As you engage first on a hill you'll see the 'H' so then just pull away as normal. It should be effortless.


Finally, is there a way of lifting the revs slightly to be ready to pull away, without slipping the clutch. I'm not looking to do standing start 0-60mph's, but again when you need to get out into a gap it would be nice to not just be going from sitting on the brake to pushing the throttle from tick-over. I'm ASSUMING I can just have left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle holding it at say 2000rpm and it won't engage the clutch until I release the brake, but didn't really fancy experimenting with it without some knowledge of what it was going to do lest I just heat up the clutch or pull out into oncoming traffic.

In a word no. I tend to drive mine in sport all the time which by altering the engine mapping makes the car quicker to respond to initial revs when pulling away. I most certainly would not recommend holding your foot on the brake!
Be mechanically sympathetic whilst also wringing it's neck and I'm sure you'll have no problems.
The gearbox is a joy to use once on the move btw. Sport mode is a must for me tho.

Hope this helps somewhat.

[IanV12VR]

Thorburn said:

My Dad has a MY16 V12 Vantage S which, due to his health, I'm having to drive semi-regularly as he's struggling to drive longer distances for car events. No great chore as it is a lovely thing and we share a mutual love of cars, even if my tastes are more Hethel than Gaydon.

Having taken it down to Goodwood at the weekend for the Members Meet I was wondering if people could offer some advice with the SportShift III gearbox though - fine with it on the move, but find it rather awkward at low speed and on slopes.

First of all, in stop-start traffic should I be worrying about clutch wear? It feels like when crawling at (roughly) sub-10mph the clutch is being slipped as revs stay constant as you creep forward on the throttle, so am I better off stopping, waiting for a gap to form and then driving into it, or am I okay trickling along at low speed like this? I understand things like reversing uphill can hurt it due to the long ratio, but is it going to be causing any issues in 1st?

Second. Best way of holding the car at uphill junctions? I was being a little paranoid as I didn't want to have a properly stupid accident by rolling backwards into the car behind and was holding it on the handbrake, but was quite easy to find myself fully engaging it and pulling away with the handbrake on. I understand there is a hill-hold function, signified by H on the gear selector, but wasn't entirely sure how to engage this consistently?

Finally, is there a way of lifting the revs slightly to be ready to pull away, without slipping the clutch. I'm not looking to do standing start 0-60mph's, but again when you need to get out into a gap it would be nice to not just be going from sitting on the brake to pushing the throttle from tick-over. I'm ASSUMING I can just have left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle holding it at say 2000rpm and it won't engage the clutch until I release the brake, but didn't really fancy experimenting with it without some knowledge of what it was going to do lest I just heat up the clutch or pull out into oncoming traffic.

Any help with these would be much appreciated.

Sorry to hear about your Dads health problems but lucky for you to get to drive a fantastic car. In answer to your questions:

1) I have a MY2015 car and have previously had a SS1 car which the worries you describe really did apply. SS3 causes not such concerns and the car should be doing automatic clutch learns which mean you should not have such worries. Sometimes I get a judder on setting off but just stop the car, leave it in gear and allow it to do a clutch learn. Sorts it out.

2) Before I got comfortable with the hill hold function I just used to use my left foot on the brake to hold the car in position. However, it is pretty consistent and my view now is if the car will roll the the HHF will activate - make sure you are in first not neutral. Just try it in areas where no problems will happen if it does role - which I would be very surprised if it didn't engage.

3) The car will not have a problem standing still in first with your foot on the brake, left or right, then lift your foot off and drive off. It only goes into neutral if you make it. I only put into neutral if standing still for a while not in normal traffic conditions. It was something that worried me until I had the chance to talk to the instructors on the performance driving course who confirmed it would cause no problems. Once the car is still I just swap feet on the brake to the left one and then driving off is seemless.

Just have more confidence in the car which will come with driving - and make sure you give it times to do the clutch learns. Have fun until your Dad is well enough to get back behind the wheel.

[HBradley]

Thorburn said:

My Dad has a MY16 V12 Vantage S which, due to his health, I'm having to drive semi-regularly as he's struggling to drive longer distances for car events. No great chore as it is a lovely thing and we share a mutual love of cars, even if my tastes are more Hethel than Gaydon.

Having taken it down to Goodwood at the weekend for the Members Meet I was wondering if people could offer some advice with the SportShift III gearbox though - fine with it on the move, but find it rather awkward at low speed and on slopes.

First of all, in stop-start traffic should I be worrying about clutch wear? It feels like when crawling at (roughly) sub-10mph the clutch is being slipped as revs stay constant as you creep forward on the throttle, so am I better off stopping, waiting for a gap to form and then driving into it, or am I okay trickling along at low speed like this? I understand things like reversing uphill can hurt it due to the long ratio, but is it going to be causing any issues in 1st?

Second. Best way of holding the car at uphill junctions? I was being a little paranoid as I didn't want to have a properly stupid accident by rolling backwards into the car behind and was holding it on the handbrake, but was quite easy to find myself fully engaging it and pulling away with the handbrake on. I understand there is a hill-hold function, signified by H on the gear selector, but wasn't entirely sure how to engage this consistently?

Finally, is there a way of lifting the revs slightly to be ready to pull away, without slipping the clutch. I'm not looking to do standing start 0-60mph's, but again when you need to get out into a gap it would be nice to not just be going from sitting on the brake to pushing the throttle from tick-over. I'm ASSUMING I can just have left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle holding it at say 2000rpm and it won't engage the clutch until I release the brake, but didn't really fancy experimenting with it without some knowledge of what it was going to do lest I just heat up the clutch or pull out into oncoming traffic.

Any help with these would be much appreciated.

Hi James,
Plus 1 on taste!
The SSIII has a twin-plate clutch (grips the clutch plate from both sides), which is also fitted to the One-77, you should have absolutely no problems with clutch wear in any driving environment unless it's there's a problem.
As Matt said, the Hill Hold is your saviour from embarrassment, hold the brake for a few seconds & it holds the car for long enough (again a few seconds) to pull away cleanly.
As to the 3rd question, with that clutch it shouldn't be slipping in any circumstances unless it's really worn.

Edited by HBradley on Tuesday 21st March 10:35

[Thorburn]

Thanks for the replies.

Just to clarify on point 3, what I mean is if I have the car in first gear, left foot on the brake, right foot on the accelerator, will it hold the clutch open and allow me to increase the revs ready to pull away, or will it engage the clutch and try to drive forward against the brakes?

I guess kind of like when you engage launch control on a lot of cars, but without getting the revs so high.

[Flugplatz]

Thorburn said:

Thanks for the replies.

Just to clarify on point 3, what I mean is if I have the car in first gear, left foot on the brake, right foot on the accelerator, will it hold the clutch open and allow me to increase the revs ready to pull away, or will it engage the clutch and try to drive forward against the brakes?

I guess kind of like when you engage launch control on a lot of cars, but without getting the revs so high.

Why would you want to do that?

[Thorburn]

Flugplatz said:

Why would you want to do that?

Same reason I'd hold any car with some revs on the clock and then release the clutch? Because I want the car to be ready to move, rather than just pressing the throttle from tickover and waiting for the car to work out that I want to go. I don't have any confidence with it in pulling away from busy junctions currently as when there is a gap it feels like by the time the car has started moving the opportunity isn't really there any more.

[HBradley]

Thorburn said:

Thanks for the replies.

Just to clarify on point 3, what I mean is if I have the car in first gear, left foot on the brake, right foot on the accelerator, will it hold the clutch open and allow me to increase the revs ready to pull away, or will it engage the clutch and try to drive forward against the brakes?

I guess kind of like when you engage launch control on a lot of cars, but without getting the revs so high.

James,
With 1st engaged & your foot on the brake, if you increase revs you're more likely to do damage to the clutch. Your right foot is your Launch Control!! My view is that your left foot is just along for the ride!!

[Thorburn]

HBradley said:

James,
With 1st engaged & your foot on the brake, if you increase revs you're more likely to do damage to the clutch. Your right foot is your Launch Control!! My view is that your left foot is just along for the ride!!

Fair enough, that's the answer I was looking for then.

Guess its just down to familiarity, but stuff like this is why I prefer proper manuals.

[HBradley]

Thorburn said:

HBradley said:

James,
With 1st engaged & your foot on the brake, if you increase revs you're more likely to do damage to the clutch. Your right foot is your Launch Control!! My view is that your left foot is just along for the ride!!

Fair enough, that's the answer I was looking for then.

Guess its just down to familiarity, but stuff like this is why I prefer proper manuals.

One final tip which applies to all SSs, to ensure a smooth approach to traffic lights/stationary traffic etc, just flick both paddle to go into neutral & coast up to it, when stationary flick the right paddle & the 'box will select 1st gear ready for your getaway. This is much smoother than letting the box downshift all the way for you. The SS is very Marmite - you really have to learn how to use it but once you have, it's fantastic!
Enjoy the car & best wishes to Dad for a swift recovery. H

Edited by HBradley on Tuesday 21st March 17:06

[IanV12VR]

HBradley said:

One final tip which applies to all SSs, to ensure a smooth approach to traffic lights/stationary traffic etc, just flick both paddle to go into neutral & coast up to it, when stationary flick the right paddle & the 'box will select 1st gear ready for your getaway. This is much smoother than letting the box downshift all the way for you. The SS is very Marmite - you really have to learn how to use it but once you have, it's fantastic!
Enjoy the car & best wishes to Dad for a swift recovery. H

Edited by HBradley on Tuesday 21st March 17:06

I am afraid I never do that. Just use the paddles to downshift and enjoy the noise as do those behind me which I have been told on numerous occasions

[Thorburn]

Cheers for the tips. Took the car down to Beaulieu at the weekend and felt much happier with it at low speeds. Dad managed to do a bit of the driving too, which was good.

[HBradley]

Great news! It was a great day.