DBS as an investment (but TT, not manual)
Discussion
Hi All
I have a huge feeling my wallet is going to regret me revisiting this, but here goes...
About two and a half years ago I nearly bought a DBS (I had paid the deposit and signed over my Bentley in px - it was that close until Stratstone gave the worst example of customer service ever (but that's another story already covered here).
It was a 2010 model with 14k on the clock at £98k.
After that disaster I bought a 05 DB9 to ease into the brand (from HMW who were fantastic) and despite only covering about 1k miles a year I absolutely love it.
Today I can see the same age DBS (TT) - but with 25k now on the clock - is still going for the same price or more. I am obviously aware as to what has happened to the manual cars over this period.
Whilst the DB9 spends most of its time as an expensive ornament on my drive I haven't lost a penny on it (through a combination of good/lucky buying price and that it being already at the bottom of the deprecation curve. I therefore cannot justify to myself paying an extra £60k-£70k to replace it with a DBS unless there was a serious prospect of the DBS not just holding value but increasing in value over time.
I know the manual has increased incredibly over the last two years and this leaves me wondering if the TT will follow suit at some point (as indeed it already has to a lesser extent than the manual) and if this is sustainable moving forward over the longer term.
I have no problem with short term falls in value, it is the longer term (5, 10, years +) picture on a 25K mileage model now only increasing by 1k miles a year going forward.
Obviously this is a crystal ball question, but I would be interested to know your thoughts.
Thanks
I have a huge feeling my wallet is going to regret me revisiting this, but here goes...
About two and a half years ago I nearly bought a DBS (I had paid the deposit and signed over my Bentley in px - it was that close until Stratstone gave the worst example of customer service ever (but that's another story already covered here).
It was a 2010 model with 14k on the clock at £98k.
After that disaster I bought a 05 DB9 to ease into the brand (from HMW who were fantastic) and despite only covering about 1k miles a year I absolutely love it.
Today I can see the same age DBS (TT) - but with 25k now on the clock - is still going for the same price or more. I am obviously aware as to what has happened to the manual cars over this period.
Whilst the DB9 spends most of its time as an expensive ornament on my drive I haven't lost a penny on it (through a combination of good/lucky buying price and that it being already at the bottom of the deprecation curve. I therefore cannot justify to myself paying an extra £60k-£70k to replace it with a DBS unless there was a serious prospect of the DBS not just holding value but increasing in value over time.
I know the manual has increased incredibly over the last two years and this leaves me wondering if the TT will follow suit at some point (as indeed it already has to a lesser extent than the manual) and if this is sustainable moving forward over the longer term.
I have no problem with short term falls in value, it is the longer term (5, 10, years +) picture on a 25K mileage model now only increasing by 1k miles a year going forward.
Obviously this is a crystal ball question, but I would be interested to know your thoughts.
Thanks
martindesu said:
I think the manual will hold a far higher premium as it's the bond car, and a manual V12.
I would agree completely, and I know no one car really answer my question over the long term prospects.It is just that I just don't feel I can justify £100k on a car that will only do 1k mileage a year max (when I already have a DB9) so was looking at another angle to justify it!
Stop being a big girl and buy it. Buy a late manual carbon edition car, get rid of the db9 and use the Bentley if the need ever arises that you have to drive yourself somewhere lol. Turn the garage into a swanky showroom looking affair and you can go in there every now and then and look at it and not be attacked by beasts.
I think that the DBS and particularly the DBS manual,due to its rarity,is and in future will be regarded as the iconic model of AM of that era.
As such,in relative terms,it will hold its premium price position.
The price might well level off,but long term I think it will maintain its status and price.
As said before the majority of purchasers pay a premium for a low mileage,although there is a debate,and it's a a reasonable one,of Garage Queen syndrome.
So if you want a keeper I'd say that long term it's a fair bet you'll make money.
If only I'd had a crystal ball I would not have sold my DB6 many years ago.
As such,in relative terms,it will hold its premium price position.
The price might well level off,but long term I think it will maintain its status and price.
As said before the majority of purchasers pay a premium for a low mileage,although there is a debate,and it's a a reasonable one,of Garage Queen syndrome.
So if you want a keeper I'd say that long term it's a fair bet you'll make money.
If only I'd had a crystal ball I would not have sold my DB6 many years ago.
The market for classic cars would suggest its manuals (and convertibles) that attract a premium - remember in 20 years time these cars will be deemed very slow in comparison with them modern cars (think DB5, swift in 1963, slower than a fiat 500 today).
So it's less about speed, more about involvement etc. That's not to say a TT wont increase in value but the manuals are likely to remain at (and possibly grow), their premium
So it's less about speed, more about involvement etc. That's not to say a TT wont increase in value but the manuals are likely to remain at (and possibly grow), their premium
I must ask...why only drive 1k miles per year?
Are you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
Are you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
Amaus said:
I must ask...why only drive 1k miles per year?
Are you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
Hi MattAre you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
It is never my intention to do only 1k a year in it, it has just ended up that way for the last couple of years!
It is a mixture of things. Firstly, I can't use it when going out with my wife and daughter together, secondly it stays in the garage on trickle charge when it is wet (which is easily half the year and thirdly, I tend to spend a couple of months in summer in the Algarve and so am not here to use it a lot during summer.
I keep trying to find the time to get out in it more but business, family life and the above just get in the way!
This is why I am so hesitant to shelling out an extra £70k to replace it with a DBS.
EDITED TO ADD: I have never bought a car as an investment and dread to think of the six figure sum I must have lost buying and selling in the past!
paddy328 said:
Stop being a big girl and buy it. Buy a late manual carbon edition car, get rid of the db9 and use the Bentley if the need ever arises that you have to drive yourself somewhere lol. Turn the garage into a swanky showroom looking affair and you can go in there every now and then and look at it and not be attacked by beasts.
Francis, I know fully well that you are only goading me to buy one and do up the garage because (a) you want to detail it and (b) you are scared of bees! 
paddy328 said:
I think you should buy it before the women in your life spend the money for you. The garage needs doing though. I think the rats and other flying beasts would like a shiny new house.
Well thanks a lot Francis, Masha has just read this and has not stopped nagging me about how right you are and she doesn't want to see another car until I have done the garage up to showroom standard!That might be the end of the DBS quandary for a while!
PS Ian is upgrading his Porsche, so it looks like you will have a nicer place to do your work on it now...
1. Buy the DBS you like.
2. Tell the Wife+1 you'll catch them up in the Algarve and drive it down. Do it in a leisurely 3-4 days each way and it does not eat too much into the two months.
3. Sell it when you've forgotten how much it cost in the first place.
or
1. Buy the DBS Volante you like in LHD
2. Leave it in the Algarve.
3. Find an excuse to go there at Christmas too.
2. Tell the Wife+1 you'll catch them up in the Algarve and drive it down. Do it in a leisurely 3-4 days each way and it does not eat too much into the two months.
3. Sell it when you've forgotten how much it cost in the first place.
or
1. Buy the DBS Volante you like in LHD
2. Leave it in the Algarve.
3. Find an excuse to go there at Christmas too.
avinalarf said:
I think that the DBS and particularly the DBS manual,due to its rarity,is and in future will be regarded as the iconic model of AM of that era.
As such,in relative terms,it will hold its premium price position.
The price might well level off,but long term I think it will maintain its status and price.
As said before the majority of purchasers pay a premium for a low mileage,although there is a debate,and it's a a reasonable one,of Garage Queen syndrome.
So if you want a keeper I'd say that long term it's a fair bet you'll make money.
If only I'd had a crystal ball I would not have sold my DB6 many years ago.
Thanks for that, it is the view I share so nice to hear it confirmed.As such,in relative terms,it will hold its premium price position.
The price might well level off,but long term I think it will maintain its status and price.
As said before the majority of purchasers pay a premium for a low mileage,although there is a debate,and it's a a reasonable one,of Garage Queen syndrome.
So if you want a keeper I'd say that long term it's a fair bet you'll make money.
If only I'd had a crystal ball I would not have sold my DB6 many years ago.
Sorry about your (DB6) loss!
Having sold my Porsche 996 Turbo s for £28k six years ago - only to find it would cost me c. £68k to buy it back now - and having for the first time owned a car that two years later I have not lost a penny on (but I know equally will not ever rise in value and is probably at the point of potential deprecation now) I just liked the idea of buying something I wanted that over the long term would hold firm and perhaps rise in line with inflation.
JulianPH said:
Amaus said:
I must ask...why only drive 1k miles per year?
Are you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
Hi MattAre you buying only for investment?
The joy I have actually driving my DB9 is paramount to me.
There are better investment opportunities out there than collectible cars and whilst it IS lovely to say "this is mine", the roar of the V12, the grip around bends...to me, this is what life is about!
I could not bare the thought of someone saying to me "yes, you may own it...BUT...choose the 1k miles per year wisely."
I probably wouldn't buy it!
Matt.
It is never my intention to do only 1k a year in it, it has just ended up that way for the last couple of years!
It is a mixture of things. Firstly, I can't use it when going out with my wife and daughter together, secondly it stays in the garage on trickle charge when it is wet (which is easily half the year and thirdly, I tend to spend a couple of months in summer in the Algarve and so am not here to use it a lot during summer.
I keep trying to find the time to get out in it more but business, family life and the above just get in the way!
This is why I am so hesitant to shelling out an extra £70k to replace it with a DBS.
EDITED TO ADD: I have never bought a car as an investment and dread to think of the six figure sum I must have lost buying and selling in the past!
-S
JulianPH said:
I therefore cannot justify to myself paying an extra £60k-£70k to replace it with a DBS unless there was a serious prospect of the DBS not just holding value but increasing in value over time.
HiOn the basis of your requirement surely no one, from the perspective of your financial requirements,could recommend you purchase a DBS.
The value of a DBS is based on a market, like any market many things can happen. Like any uncertain investment, be prepared to risk the lot!
Also, read this: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-classic-car-mar...
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