V12VM or V12VS SS. Sport Shift a deal breaker?
Discussion
Looking at buying either a V12V manual or possible a V12VS SS. The V12VS prices are now in the same region as the original V12V, bringing improvements all round except at this price there are only SS.
When I tried one a few weeks back it was obvious that the driver needs to get involved in the gear change process, with a little lift at the right point, rather than just pull a paddle. I actually quite liked this as i still felt part of the process, too many DCT installations would rather be left alone I think, and "tolerate" driver input if you really must.
On a short drive I think it could be OK, but what about longer term?
If you have one, would you buy another SS or did you always wish you'd bought the manual?
And is the V12VS a better proposition over a V12VM?
Thanks
When I tried one a few weeks back it was obvious that the driver needs to get involved in the gear change process, with a little lift at the right point, rather than just pull a paddle. I actually quite liked this as i still felt part of the process, too many DCT installations would rather be left alone I think, and "tolerate" driver input if you really must.
On a short drive I think it could be OK, but what about longer term?
If you have one, would you buy another SS or did you always wish you'd bought the manual?
And is the V12VS a better proposition over a V12VM?
Thanks
I have the original V12V Manual and I'm still head over heels in love years down the line. The answer to this question really depends on what kind of driver you are. For me, I'm the kind that doesn't use the car during the week, so when I take it out on a weekend and special occasions, it's about the engagement and the fun of changing gear myself. For me, simply lifting off a little when you pull a paddle doesn't really give me that fizz.
If you're planning to use this every day and you can foresee yourself sitting in traffic a lot, or you're just interested in chasing point to point speed then maybe the auto is for you. That said, once these V12 manuals are gone, they're gone....
Chris.
If you're planning to use this every day and you can foresee yourself sitting in traffic a lot, or you're just interested in chasing point to point speed then maybe the auto is for you. That said, once these V12 manuals are gone, they're gone....
Chris.
raceboy said:
Can't help in the slightest on 'what are they like' but found it interesting on Saturday having a nose around the new Nottingham Aston Martin showroom, they had 2 very similar V12V's, a 2012 Manual, and a 2016 SS, both exactly the same money. 
I think that's because the V12 Vantage Roadster was made in very limited numbers (101 worldwide), so maybe there is a bit of a premium based around that. Compare coupes and prices is a bit more 'normal'.Personally I prefer manuals, but the more I drive the SS III the more I'm getting used to it - its a bit awkward when maneuvering just because you can't control the clutch engagement in the same way, but with familiarity of when it engages it starts to get easier.
Edited by Thorburn on Monday 17th July 09:50
I have had my V12V manual now for 3 months and love every minute I am in the car. Also as said above these are holding there price. Went to Sherborne Classic Car Show over the weekend and the car drew so much attention, the red carbon bonnet vent and wing mirrors and Storm Black paint looked stunning in the sunshine. Even had somebody with a brand new V12VS manual come up and comment on it. Buy one now 
Manuals are becoming rare in the top end sports car market, so that will always help residuals of the V12V, but SSIII works very well on the V12VS.... as long as you use the paddles like you would a manual and forget auto! 
There is a bit of adapting required (put 3k revs+ on with a slight lift for gentle up-shifts and change right on the rev limiter in flat out hypershift mode for fastest shifts). Downsides ... it can be a bit quirky sometimes and takes away a layer of driver involvement compared to a manual- but the heel and toe style downshift revs are addictive and the ultra fast power upshifts are fab, you find yourself using the gears far more than in a manual and this balances some of the interaction lost over a manual.
Overall I think it really suits the car, but the downside is it does take a little time to get comfortable with and enjoy the benefits of SS, once you do you will likely love it, but a slick Porsche dual clutch PDK set-up it isn't
There is a bit of adapting required (put 3k revs+ on with a slight lift for gentle up-shifts and change right on the rev limiter in flat out hypershift mode for fastest shifts). Downsides ... it can be a bit quirky sometimes and takes away a layer of driver involvement compared to a manual- but the heel and toe style downshift revs are addictive and the ultra fast power upshifts are fab, you find yourself using the gears far more than in a manual and this balances some of the interaction lost over a manual.
Overall I think it really suits the car, but the downside is it does take a little time to get comfortable with and enjoy the benefits of SS, once you do you will likely love it, but a slick Porsche dual clutch PDK set-up it isn't
woodsypedia said:
I have the original V12V Manual and I'm still head over heels in love years down the line. The answer to this question really depends on what kind of driver you are. For me, I'm the kind that doesn't use the car during the week, so when I take it out on a weekend and special occasions, it's about the engagement and the fun of changing gear myself. For me, simply lifting off a little when you pull a paddle doesn't really give me that fizz.
If you're planning to use this every day and you can foresee yourself sitting in traffic a lot, or you're just interested in chasing point to point speed then maybe the auto is for you. That said, once these V12 manuals are gone, they're gone....
Chris.
+1 I'm in the same situation and fully agree. And, now that I've got good at it, I enjoy blipping and double-declutching "expertly, though unnecessarily" - to quote Ian Fleming.If you're planning to use this every day and you can foresee yourself sitting in traffic a lot, or you're just interested in chasing point to point speed then maybe the auto is for you. That said, once these V12 manuals are gone, they're gone....
Chris.
Im not afraid to confess that a perfect blip coming in to a roundabout, followed by feeding in the power for a full rev on the way out, even if it's just going to the shops, makes my world a better place.
Edited by 12pack on Monday 17th July 11:25
The other part of the question is V12 v V12S. I've had both (V12SMR now), and the later car does benefit from better and more modern tech; infotainment is much better, auto wipers and lights etc. You don't really need or notice the extra power but it's nice to know it's there. The variable suspension is probably the single best difference; the ride is a superb compromise now. The 7 speed manual box in the new car isn't as good as the 6 speed in the old one, but it's fine and IMHO way better than Sportshift in any iteration. SS is fine out on the open road but can be a complete pain at low speeds, manoeuvring etc.
You can only really know by experience, so a long test drive in each is essential.
You can only really know by experience, so a long test drive in each is essential.
I went from a V8 Roadster manual to V12S Roadster with SSIII and I don't miss the manual at all. Took some getting used to to get the changes smooth and I do find myself changing gear far more than I need to
The increase in power and torque over the V8 does make me feel I need to hold on with both hands when pressing on a bit though
The increase in power and torque over the V8 does make me feel I need to hold on with both hands when pressing on a bit though
damianke said:
The other part of the question is V12 v V12S. I've had both (V12SMR now), and the later car does benefit from better and more modern tech; infotainment is much better, auto wipers and lights etc. You don't really need or notice the extra power but it's nice to know it's there. The variable suspension is probably the single best difference; the ride is a superb compromise now. The 7 speed manual box in the new car isn't as good as the 6 speed in the old one, but it's fine and IMHO way better than Sportshift in any iteration. SS is fine out on the open road but can be a complete pain at low speeds, manoeuvring etc.
You can only really know by experience, so a long test drive in each is essential.
I have to say having driven the 7 speed manual out on the open road I would prefer SS all day long. I very rarely encounter low speeds other than getting in and out of the garage You can only really know by experience, so a long test drive in each is essential.
Well, I think I can help here. We had both, V12VR and a V12VSR. The SS3 is the better car and you can undoubtedly change gear quicker than in the manual mode. Just don't use 'Drive' - it shouldn't be allowed on the car! The adaptive suspension also improves the drive. Whatever people say about the SS3 car if you drive as a manual then it is a great car IMO.
Having said that loved both cars and just took out the one that I fancied driving, sometimes SS, sometimes manual. I know how lucky we are to have had the choice but think if you drive both you will reach a conclusion pretty quickly which suits you most.
Right, now off for a little drive - to Switzerland
Having said that loved both cars and just took out the one that I fancied driving, sometimes SS, sometimes manual. I know how lucky we are to have had the choice but think if you drive both you will reach a conclusion pretty quickly which suits you most.
Right, now off for a little drive - to Switzerland
raceboy said:
Can't help in the slightest on 'what are they like' but found it interesting on Saturday having a nose around the new Nottingham Aston Martin showroom, they had 2 very similar V12V's, a 2012 Manual, and a 2016 SS, both exactly the same money.
Both fantastic cars but if you look at depreciation perhaps this answers the question as to which will hold value longer term ? Think history shows Astons + manuals equals best residuals ? Just look at manual DBS values ! You cant go wrong with either really,I went from a V8 with SS to a V12V and loved them both. Both have their charms and both have their faults.
The V12V has been traded in for an S manual which is due to start being built in the next few weeks. I don't agree at all that the new 7 speed is better than the 6 speed manual, it just takes time to get used to it. If you read back through people's reports on test drives of the 7 speed manual, some people got on great with it, some found it awkward.
When my V12V was in for service a couple of years back I test drove a V12VS sportshift and loved it. The S was such an improvement in many ways over my own car that I almost went for the deal there and then. The clutch on the V12V annoyed me and the steering weight is much better on the S, as is the ride. As a few have said, you need to consider what you're going to use it for, commuting or just fun. I commuted in my V8 SS and it was no problem, I'd have hated the V12V if i'd commuted in it for any length of time.
I'm sure you can see the issue here, there is no definitive answer, just opinions which you need to pick the bones from.
cheers,
The V12V has been traded in for an S manual which is due to start being built in the next few weeks. I don't agree at all that the new 7 speed is better than the 6 speed manual, it just takes time to get used to it. If you read back through people's reports on test drives of the 7 speed manual, some people got on great with it, some found it awkward.
When my V12V was in for service a couple of years back I test drove a V12VS sportshift and loved it. The S was such an improvement in many ways over my own car that I almost went for the deal there and then. The clutch on the V12V annoyed me and the steering weight is much better on the S, as is the ride. As a few have said, you need to consider what you're going to use it for, commuting or just fun. I commuted in my V8 SS and it was no problem, I'd have hated the V12V if i'd commuted in it for any length of time.
I'm sure you can see the issue here, there is no definitive answer, just opinions which you need to pick the bones from.
cheers,
IanV12VR said:
Well, I think I can help here. We had both, V12VR and a V12VSR. The SS3 is the better car and you can undoubtedly change gear quicker than in the manual mode. Just don't use 'Drive' - it shouldn't be allowed on the car! The adaptive suspension also improves the drive. Whatever people say about the SS3 car if you drive as a manual then it is a great car IMO.
Having said that loved both cars and just took out the one that I fancied driving, sometimes SS, sometimes manual. I know how lucky we are to have had the choice but think if you drive both you will reach a conclusion pretty quickly which suits you most.
Right, now off for a little drive - to Switzerland
Hi IanHaving said that loved both cars and just took out the one that I fancied driving, sometimes SS, sometimes manual. I know how lucky we are to have had the choice but think if you drive both you will reach a conclusion pretty quickly which suits you most.
Right, now off for a little drive - to Switzerland
Have you sold your V12 roadster? That must have been a wrench.
Looking at values though i think you probably timed it right!
Still early days for me and still getting used to the SS III but so far I'm absolutely loving the thing! I didn't give that much thought to manual vs SS III as I'm basically an 'auto convert' (yes, i know, not an auto but you know what i mean...) and loved the car i eventually bought on the test drive.
As has been stated i would suggest the decision is very much related to what sort of driving you and what your personal preference is? For me, making the decision purely on what the crystal ball suggests will hold it value or increase in value the most is the wrong way to go. On the other hand I'm sure you wont be disappointed with any of them and I guess 'in Aston Martin world' manual = rarer and more likely to cost more and increase more, roadster = rarer and more likely to cost more and increase more....and manual roadster....well, you know the score!
As has also been stated....just get one!!!
As has been stated i would suggest the decision is very much related to what sort of driving you and what your personal preference is? For me, making the decision purely on what the crystal ball suggests will hold it value or increase in value the most is the wrong way to go. On the other hand I'm sure you wont be disappointed with any of them and I guess 'in Aston Martin world' manual = rarer and more likely to cost more and increase more, roadster = rarer and more likely to cost more and increase more....and manual roadster....well, you know the score!
As has also been stated....just get one!!!
I think the market has delivered the verdict on this question very decissively and I think the gap will get bigger in the future. The unaldultered first edition of the V12V is the car for me personally. The perfect Aston swansong V12V version would have been the original car with the updated suspension and the 6 speed gearbox and all the orginal carbon fibre trimmings at the right price.
Ex Boy Racer said:
Hi Ian
Have you sold your V12 roadster? That must have been a wrench.
Looking at values though i think you probably timed it right!
Yes and yes Bob. Fabulous car and great memories but it didn't turn out to be the last V12 manual as I had hoped. Hopefully, that will be corrected Have you sold your V12 roadster? That must have been a wrench.
Looking at values though i think you probably timed it right!
hornbaek said:
I think the market has delivered the verdict on this question very decissively and I think the gap will get bigger in the future. The unaldultered first edition of the V12V is the car for me personally. The perfect Aston swansong V12V version would have been the original car with the updated suspension and the 6 speed gearbox and all the orginal carbon fibre trimmings at the right price.
sorted then!! 
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