Vantage headlights re-seal
Discussion
I wonder if anyone has done a re-seal to its Vantage headlights?
Similar to what is described in this great thread on the tail-lights:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have a rather strong condensation issue in my headlights...
and I will do the silica bag inserts next as first step.
However, it seems to me that one of the main problems is water getting into the headlights via bad sealing(s),
as the severity of the condensation increases after washing or a rain drive.
So following the instruction from the tail-lights, the job would require
the dismantling the headlights: 3 pieces, I believe: clear cover and 2 black parts
extensive drying...probably cleaning the lenses
re-assembly with fresh sealing.
Experiences, thoughts, ideas?
Thomas
Similar to what is described in this great thread on the tail-lights:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have a rather strong condensation issue in my headlights...
and I will do the silica bag inserts next as first step.
However, it seems to me that one of the main problems is water getting into the headlights via bad sealing(s),
as the severity of the condensation increases after washing or a rain drive.
So following the instruction from the tail-lights, the job would require
the dismantling the headlights: 3 pieces, I believe: clear cover and 2 black parts
extensive drying...probably cleaning the lenses
re-assembly with fresh sealing.
Experiences, thoughts, ideas?
Thomas
HIi there
I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
Condensation is a physical effect when warm air gets colder. Warm air can hold more humidity then cold air, so when warm air gets colder it has to get rid of humidity and this is condensation. There are only two ways to prevent condensation:
a) maintain the temperature at the same level all the time.
b) use dry air, if the air does not hold humidity condensation cannot happen.
All this is valid for the inside of the light pods, you cannot prevent outside condensation which does not matter as ist is blown away by wind.
I am working on a kit to overcome the internal condensation problem with the lights (front and rear) on our cars. I just have to conduct some serious test runs with the front lights in Spring, currently my V8V is in hibernation at AM. ( I already tested my system with the tail lights this year and it worked like a charm.
I will post my solution (DIY install kit for headlight and tail lights) here in Spring so everybody can benefit from it.
Merry Christmas
Christian
a) maintain the temperature at the same level all the time.
b) use dry air, if the air does not hold humidity condensation cannot happen.
All this is valid for the inside of the light pods, you cannot prevent outside condensation which does not matter as ist is blown away by wind.
I am working on a kit to overcome the internal condensation problem with the lights (front and rear) on our cars. I just have to conduct some serious test runs with the front lights in Spring, currently my V8V is in hibernation at AM. ( I already tested my system with the tail lights this year and it worked like a charm.
I will post my solution (DIY install kit for headlight and tail lights) here in Spring so everybody can benefit from it.
Merry Christmas
Christian
tommyaml1998 said:
HIi there
I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
I'm looking ahead testing the gel packs soon...I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
The connection to the air boxes is an interessting idea, as they are a source of low pressure and thus would "suck out" the headlights.
But from my understanding one should also connect the the headlights to a source of dry air (cabin maybe), in order to ensure a permanent purge?
Gday2 said:
Condensation is a physical effect when warm air gets colder. Warm air can hold more humidity then cold air, so when warm air gets colder it has to get rid of humidity and this is condensation. There are only two ways to prevent condensation:
a) maintain the temperature at the same level all the time.
b) use dry air, if the air does not hold humidity condensation cannot happen.
All this is valid for the inside of the light pods, you cannot prevent outside condensation which does not matter as ist is blown away by wind.
I am working on a kit to overcome the internal condensation problem with the lights (front and rear) on our cars. I just have to conduct some serious test runs with the front lights in Spring, currently my V8V is in hibernation at AM. ( I already tested my system with the tail lights this year and it worked like a charm.
I will post my solution (DIY install kit for headlight and tail lights) here in Spring so everybody can benefit from it.
Merry Christmas
Christian
I agree on the principles of condensation as you described.a) maintain the temperature at the same level all the time.
b) use dry air, if the air does not hold humidity condensation cannot happen.
All this is valid for the inside of the light pods, you cannot prevent outside condensation which does not matter as ist is blown away by wind.
I am working on a kit to overcome the internal condensation problem with the lights (front and rear) on our cars. I just have to conduct some serious test runs with the front lights in Spring, currently my V8V is in hibernation at AM. ( I already tested my system with the tail lights this year and it worked like a charm.
I will post my solution (DIY install kit for headlight and tail lights) here in Spring so everybody can benefit from it.
Merry Christmas
Christian
It also explains why the condensation takes place on the inside of the "glass" of the headlights.
the cold ambient outside and airflow from driving cooles the glass down, while the inside is heated from the bulbs.
Thus air inside the headlamp is warmer, holds more humidity and releases the humidity as condensation when in contact with the cold glass.
(similar effect as we can see during winter on a bathroom window, for example).
However, my observation is that during a drive in the rain (of after washing) the condensation is far worse.
Which for me indicates that aditional humidity enters the headlights during these circumstances.
Hence my question on the re-seal.
I am looking ahead to hear from your proposed DIY-kit, and remain patient until spring...
Thomas
I am sorry I can't finish the head light kit earlier, we have Winter in Austria and my car is at AM in hibernation till early Spring. As soon as I pick her up I will install the kit for the head lights and conduct testing, Spring and Autumn are the best times for testing as there are severe temperature and humidity differences.
The kit for the tail lights is already tested but will undergo some 'beautification' during the Winter months.
As soon as I am happy with the results I'll post it here.
The kit for the tail lights is already tested but will undergo some 'beautification' during the Winter months.
As soon as I am happy with the results I'll post it here.
I think that there is a fundamental difference between the headlights and tail lights in that the rears are (meant to be) sealed units whereas the headlights are, I believe, vented. So sealing the fronts is not possible/appropriate.
I remember being shown a headlight unit off a car by an AM tech and IIRC it has a small mesh vent on its inner surface facing the area of the radiator cluster. He said this was a design flaw in that when you drive in wet conditions spray hits the hot radiators generating very humid warm air in the region of this headlight vent. This makes the air in the headlight warm/humid which then generates the condensation as it cools (as above). Happy to be corrected but this seemed a very plausible explanation to me.
I believe the AML fix involves blowing dry air from the aircon system through the lights (maybe venting out through the air boxes) which is a system that was used on NP Vanquish as mentioned. I imagine this works but don't know anyone that has had it done to a Gaydon car.
I remember being shown a headlight unit off a car by an AM tech and IIRC it has a small mesh vent on its inner surface facing the area of the radiator cluster. He said this was a design flaw in that when you drive in wet conditions spray hits the hot radiators generating very humid warm air in the region of this headlight vent. This makes the air in the headlight warm/humid which then generates the condensation as it cools (as above). Happy to be corrected but this seemed a very plausible explanation to me.
I believe the AML fix involves blowing dry air from the aircon system through the lights (maybe venting out through the air boxes) which is a system that was used on NP Vanquish as mentioned. I imagine this works but don't know anyone that has had it done to a Gaydon car.
Every light has a vent opening usually covered with some Goretex membrane to prevent humidity from entering. The tail lights have this as well and exactly that is the common problem as the membrane sort of dies and does not lock humidity out.
To give you an idea a headlight ingests about one liter of air at a temp drop of 20 Kelvin.
Other then having this kind of valve all lights are supposed to be air tight.
If the sealing is not working you will mostlikely get water direct in the light, then it is necessary to reseal the light. This happens sometimes at the outer edges of the tail lights. I have not heard about it on the head light pods, but how knows.
My kit does seal the original vents and ensures that only dry air can enter the light, Therefor disable condensation.
To give you an idea a headlight ingests about one liter of air at a temp drop of 20 Kelvin.
Other then having this kind of valve all lights are supposed to be air tight.
If the sealing is not working you will mostlikely get water direct in the light, then it is necessary to reseal the light. This happens sometimes at the outer edges of the tail lights. I have not heard about it on the head light pods, but how knows.
My kit does seal the original vents and ensures that only dry air can enter the light, Therefor disable condensation.
OK I stand corrected but Gortex, as far as I know, doesn't prevent water vapour entering as it was designed to allow water vapour out from clothing but prevent (rain) water getting in. Hence, it enabled the production of "breathable" rain jackets. So with the headlight vent being near the rads this allows water vapour through the Gortex vent into the unit causing condensation without failure of the "seal". No?
I've not had this problem in 5 years, but if I do I'll try a 12v air pump from a fish tank, and blow air through a couple of holes in the light unit. Has anyone tried this? I think you could draw warm dry air from the engine bay, and do quite a neat installation with small bore silicone hose.
Cold air passing over a warm surface causes the inside to condense. The water is coming from the saturated air inside the warm enclosure.
It gets warm predominately due to light warming up the large black surfaces inside like a green house.
Removing condensation is possible by changing the dew point, drying the air (altering partial pressure of water vapour) or equalising the temperature.
It gets warm predominately due to light warming up the large black surfaces inside like a green house.
Removing condensation is possible by changing the dew point, drying the air (altering partial pressure of water vapour) or equalising the temperature.
tommyaml1998 said:
HIi there
I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
Thanks for taking the time to help, appreciated.I work for an aston dealer and the most we would do is put a pair of gel packs in per headlight behind where the bulb covers are positioned. If this doesn't cure it, there is a modification you can carry it which connects to the air boxes which I have carried out on a DBS, you have to drill a hole into the headlight and then a hole into the airbox(same as old vanquish) and that it how to cure condensation in headlamps.
divetheworld said:
Cold air passing over a warm surface causes the inside to condense. The water is coming from the saturated air inside the warm enclosure.
It gets warm predominately due to light warming up the large black surfaces inside like a green house.
Removing condensation is possible by changing the dew point, drying the air (altering partial pressure of water vapour) or equalising the temperature.
That's my point. You can't do anything about the cold air, so swop out the damp air with dry warm air. A remote switch and relay would be my idea. Happy to engineer a prototype if anyone has a failed front or back unit near Coventry.It gets warm predominately due to light warming up the large black surfaces inside like a green house.
Removing condensation is possible by changing the dew point, drying the air (altering partial pressure of water vapour) or equalising the temperature.
@ V8V Pete:
Here a company that produces automotive gore vents: https://www.gore.com.
That is what I meant and the source of the problems.
Here a company that produces automotive gore vents: https://www.gore.com.
That is what I meant and the source of the problems.
I remember when I had the first shoes with a "gore-tex" membrane...worked very well in the beginning...and failed completely after a while (didn't keep the water out anymore).
Thanks for the inputs so far, to me that clarified a lot about the functioning about the Vantage headlights.
So
- ventillation seems to be a must to compensate for temperature (inside) and weather gradients.
- within the headlamp there exists a kind of "gore-tex" membrane, but it's
-- probably in the wrong place towards the radiator where it contacts hot & moisture air.
-- and/or suspicious to failure of the membrane's function.
Today I mounted the silica-gel-packs, will see how much that helps.
Thanks for the inputs so far, to me that clarified a lot about the functioning about the Vantage headlights.
So
- ventillation seems to be a must to compensate for temperature (inside) and weather gradients.
- within the headlamp there exists a kind of "gore-tex" membrane, but it's
-- probably in the wrong place towards the radiator where it contacts hot & moisture air.
-- and/or suspicious to failure of the membrane's function.
Today I mounted the silica-gel-packs, will see how much that helps.
I had this problem with a previous car, a Chrysler Crossfire, it was a well known issue affecting most of them, so I experimented with changing the original little right angled push-on rubber vent pipes which contain a gauze filter on the rear of the headlamps with a couple of these things, they are called Duckbill valves, they just pushed over the original stubs on the rear of the headlamps and the problem went away, never to return in my 4 years of ownership.
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