V12VS first track day
Discussion
So I've owned my Vantage for over two months and had my first run out on track with it at Bedford last Sat as a sharpener before my trip to the Ring for a double track day at end of Sep. Was interesting getting a feel for the car and comparing it to the R8 V10 plus I owned and tracked before it. My car was on Pzero Corsas.
First thing was that the Vantage was more challenging to drive fast compared to the R8, I felt that sometimes the Vantage struggled to get its power down especially when exiting low speed corners. As I gained in confidence I decided to switch off the traction control which allowed for some slip and fun! The car had a lovely balance through higher speed stuff and edged the R8 in terms of overall feel through the steering. No doubt the R8 was faster pretty much everywhere but the Vantage was the more engaging drive, really looking forward to attacking the ring in it now.
Any one else tracked their V12V and what were you thoughts?
First thing was that the Vantage was more challenging to drive fast compared to the R8, I felt that sometimes the Vantage struggled to get its power down especially when exiting low speed corners. As I gained in confidence I decided to switch off the traction control which allowed for some slip and fun! The car had a lovely balance through higher speed stuff and edged the R8 in terms of overall feel through the steering. No doubt the R8 was faster pretty much everywhere but the Vantage was the more engaging drive, really looking forward to attacking the ring in it now.
Any one else tracked their V12V and what were you thoughts?
Yes, out on Oulton Park regularly on an original V12V. Doing it less these days as I now also have an Atom. Indeed you have to tip in the throttle. Just like in actual race cars, you cannot just stab on the power. Need to feed it in progressively, and only when you feel the rear bite - feed in some more. That, together with double-declutching and rev matching for yourself, means you're not going to set lap records, but its really fun and rewarding when you get it right.
Edited by 12pack on Thursday 16th August 11:47
I don't think you mentioned if yours is the dogleg manual or the SS3.
I have tracked my SS3 V12VS several times and quite enjoyed it. Compared to my old V8V, which struggled under braking, even after installation of floating discs, race pads and high temp fluid, I found the CCM brakes on the V12 pretty much unflappable. My V12 is on PS Cup 2's, which have better traction than the OEM Corsas, although they are ultimately the limiting factor in how long and how hard you can push the car.
The V8 had better turn in, and was hardly ever troubled by exit oversteer, but the V12's power and torque more than compensate, giving much better straight line speed, and welcome on throttle adjustability.
I also found SS3 really came into its element on track. I love a manual, but I am no racing god, and not having to clutch really frees up mental bandwidth, so that I can concentrate on my lines.
I have tracked my SS3 V12VS several times and quite enjoyed it. Compared to my old V8V, which struggled under braking, even after installation of floating discs, race pads and high temp fluid, I found the CCM brakes on the V12 pretty much unflappable. My V12 is on PS Cup 2's, which have better traction than the OEM Corsas, although they are ultimately the limiting factor in how long and how hard you can push the car.
The V8 had better turn in, and was hardly ever troubled by exit oversteer, but the V12's power and torque more than compensate, giving much better straight line speed, and welcome on throttle adjustability.
I also found SS3 really came into its element on track. I love a manual, but I am no racing god, and not having to clutch really frees up mental bandwidth, so that I can concentrate on my lines.
mine is the SS3 also so not a manual which suits me better given I use the car to commute sometimes and agreed it does free you up on track to concentrate on lines etc. Good point on the CCB's very good feel to them and no fade whatsoever even though I was pushing a little harder as the day wore on. Overall I like the gearbox although on the main back straight when flat out a dual clutch defo gets you to a higher velocity given zero interruption in power, the SS3 takes a bit of learning which is no bad thing.
I have tracked my V12 Vantage a couple of times at Goodwood and also at Spa. Spa is fantastic for the V12 as it is fast and has some long sections where you can really use the torque and power of the V12. However weight ultimately makes itself known as tyre and brake pad wear is quite excessive. At Spa I re-fuelled 6 times during one day.
I've tracked my V12S SS3 quite a bit. The transmission is antiquated for sure but you learn to use it on the track pretty quickly and short shifting here and there depending on turns. I go through brake pads pretty quick (home track is Circuit of the Americas). I highly recommend using Castrol SRF brake fluid. I replace mine everytime after 2 track days.
I've never ran on the corsas but I have used Michelin Cup 2 and currently Pirelli Trofeo R. Michelins have better wear but the Pirellis have more grip - both of these tires are day and night compared to Pirelli pzero.
In my opinion the tires are only optimal for 2 track days due to the weight of the car and how hard you push it.
I've never ran on the corsas but I have used Michelin Cup 2 and currently Pirelli Trofeo R. Michelins have better wear but the Pirellis have more grip - both of these tires are day and night compared to Pirelli pzero.
In my opinion the tires are only optimal for 2 track days due to the weight of the car and how hard you push it.
^^ What size Trofeo R are you using and where did you get them? I used to look at Tire Rack frequently a few years ago, and they never had Trofeo's in the right sizes.
Agree with the longevity comments. These are heavy cars and are hard on consumables. I can't imagine using mine frequently and having to pony up for new CCM discs!
Agree with the longevity comments. These are heavy cars and are hard on consumables. I can't imagine using mine frequently and having to pony up for new CCM discs!
Interesting that you guys think the tyres and pads would wear out so quickly, I do max 4 track days a year with two of those at the Nordschleife, even after the last double header with my R8 at the ring the tyre wear was only 1mm but they were normal Pzeros. As for the CCBs the disks should last for 70-80k miles normally so even with a few trackdays a yr I'd still expect at least 50k out of them. Interesting was the noise of the car as driveby limit was 88db and I got the noise board warning a couple of times meant I had to short shift when close to the sensors, Im not sure if the car is stock exhaust wise as it seems v loud possibly it's already been decatted but the seller didn't mention at the time.
quench said:
^^ What size Trofeo R are you using and where did you get them? I used to look at Tire Rack frequently a few years ago, and they never had Trofeo's in the right sizes.
Agree with the longevity comments. These are heavy cars and are hard on consumables. I can't imagine using mine frequently and having to pony up for new CCM discs!
I am running 265/35/19F 305/30/19R - no issues what so ever with the tires. I actually really like them other than the fact that they are scary as hell in the rain. They are a little rougher for DD than the Cup 2s.Agree with the longevity comments. These are heavy cars and are hard on consumables. I can't imagine using mine frequently and having to pony up for new CCM discs!
At Silverstone I was getting 1 lap per gallon MPG and did a set of road pads in one day.
Im told that fitting a track compound pad is the way forward and then change back for road use.
The brake fluid always spurts out of the overflow in the first few track laps so now I just dip a binch of tissues in to take an inch of fluid out before the sighting laps. (Im told best to top back up for road use)
I cant see the CCM's lasting more than 2000 enthusiastic track miles. (at a guess)
I find SS3 just superb and the flat shifts are just perfect.
Running Corsa tyres and again 2-3 track days max would see them finished off.
Im told that fitting a track compound pad is the way forward and then change back for road use.
The brake fluid always spurts out of the overflow in the first few track laps so now I just dip a binch of tissues in to take an inch of fluid out before the sighting laps. (Im told best to top back up for road use)
I cant see the CCM's lasting more than 2000 enthusiastic track miles. (at a guess)
I find SS3 just superb and the flat shifts are just perfect.
Running Corsa tyres and again 2-3 track days max would see them finished off.
Edited by Flugplatz on Friday 17th August 13:03
I did Paul Ricard last year (organised by the local Porsche dealer but open to other brands) and another track day organised by the local Aston Martin dealer on a smaller but no less enjoyable track called Le Laquais located between Lyon and Grenoble.
I liked the fact there were professional instructors available and although the Aston is not perse a track car (as opposed to the GT3's that were at Paul Ricard) I did enjoy both events.
I drove with the roof open, got faster by the day, I found the smaller track more suited to the Aston, car is no lightweight and you can feel the weight, if I were doing more track days than the odd one or two from time to time I'd buy something lighter and more suited to such events. I'd also worry about the cost of doing this on a regular basis as you'd probably have to be thinking about changing the carbon ceramic disks and tyres quite often.
Actually there was another V12VS at Paul Ricard and he had to stop midday because his disks were shot and he had them replaced after the event.
But he uses his car regularly during track days.
My car behaved impeccably though, I had the traction control on the 'Track setting", not brave enough to switch it completely off.
I did a full cooling off lap before the end of each session.
As Flugplatz said, SportshiftIII gearbox comes really in its element when going for it or on a track, I wouldn't want a stick and prefer to have both hands on the wheel at all times.
Corsa tyres lasted two track days.
I had the car serviced in June, clutch is fine, discs are too, I had the pads changed.
I liked the fact there were professional instructors available and although the Aston is not perse a track car (as opposed to the GT3's that were at Paul Ricard) I did enjoy both events.
I drove with the roof open, got faster by the day, I found the smaller track more suited to the Aston, car is no lightweight and you can feel the weight, if I were doing more track days than the odd one or two from time to time I'd buy something lighter and more suited to such events. I'd also worry about the cost of doing this on a regular basis as you'd probably have to be thinking about changing the carbon ceramic disks and tyres quite often.
Actually there was another V12VS at Paul Ricard and he had to stop midday because his disks were shot and he had them replaced after the event.
But he uses his car regularly during track days.
My car behaved impeccably though, I had the traction control on the 'Track setting", not brave enough to switch it completely off.
I did a full cooling off lap before the end of each session.
As Flugplatz said, SportshiftIII gearbox comes really in its element when going for it or on a track, I wouldn't want a stick and prefer to have both hands on the wheel at all times.
Corsa tyres lasted two track days.
I had the car serviced in June, clutch is fine, discs are too, I had the pads changed.
Edited by CSK1 on Friday 17th August 15:24
Edited by CSK1 on Friday 17th August 15:26
Here is a video of my hot lap at COTA.
I lost a little bit of control on turn 19 as i was braking heavily on the curbs but otherwise it was a pretty solid lap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L2UXuLlkjQ&fe...
I lost a little bit of control on turn 19 as i was braking heavily on the curbs but otherwise it was a pretty solid lap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L2UXuLlkjQ&fe...
Nice vid mate, can't imagine there are many V12VS's in Texas! I'm surprised to read the posts above on how quickly the Corsa tyres and CCBs wear. If you were driving absolutely flat out all day for every lap possibly but that's certainly not the way I approach a trackday indeed I would say 8/10ths is prob my max pace. 2000 miles lifetime for CCBs on track even flat out seems v low to me. Also the wear on my R8s normal Pzeros after two days at the ring last year was just over 1mm and I was driving at a reasonable pace, do Corsas wear out at a much faster rate? The R8 is a bit lighter than the Vantage but only by 70kg I think.
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